cork docklands
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Six! The way things carry on in this country it will probably be made into a bungalow. I still don’t know how Eglinton St. is being built…. 80m including the spire (someone must have been given a brown envelope).
@A-ha wrote:
Six! The way things carry on in this country it will probably be made into a bungalow. I still don’t know how Eglinton St. is being built…. 80m including the spire (someone must have been given a brown envelope).
:rolleyes: Steady on now,,there are enough tribunals going on in Dublin….don’t involve Cork?:o 😮
any news on Docklands and the tender on the Maxol site?
(This is also an effor to keep this thread going – splitting up the Cork Devt thread wasnt great in my humble opinion)
in the examiner today, 20,000 sq ft warehouse fronting Albert Quay adjacent to the IAWS silos, up for sale by auction on Oct 11 with guide price €4.5m.
I got to visit the Cardiff Bay development recently and it got me wondering about what we would like to see in Cork Docklands. So far, what has been done there has been mostly for recreational use with plenty of bars, cafes and restaurants, tours of the bay, Techniquest, a theatre, a planned national sports centre etc. Although, I had an opportunity to talk to one of the planners who said that they would be looking to put in more employment based development in the future.
In comparison with the dreariness which is the IFSC it really opened my eyes as to what could be achieved in an urban redevelopment project like this.
Traditionally, in Ireland, we have been poor at providing recreational amenities and I fear a situation in the docklands where we have dense office development with some apartments and little of interest otherwise.
Considering there are similar proposals for Galway (and presumably elswhere) I had even considered starting a separate thread on this topic.
Also, I’ll try to put up some pictures of the Cardiff Bay Development when I recover the cable that connects my camera to the computer. The Millenium Centre is a stunning building and the National Assembly (the Assembly itself, not the godawful assembly offices behind it) also deserves to be seen.
😮 Concerns were rightly raised at a recent meeting by Cork City Councillors regarding foot dragging by some stakeholders on the proposed city docklands development.
Issues raised included the passing of five years without serious planning applications being lodged, and the prospect of another five years or so before the first stakeholders blink and take what is on offer money wise rather than wait to see if a few more euro can be extracted.(CCC’s lack of a determined blueprint for the area may have a lot to do with this deadlock ?)CIE, and the Port of Cork were mentioned at this meeting, POC member Cllr.Colm Burke raised the issue of POC needing 150 million to relocate to the lower harbor (up from 110 million from when the POC made a submission to CCC some months ago), meanwhile the POC listed building on Custom House Quay is at the point of collapse.
It may be worth more as a site than to restore / redevelop this historic Cork building?City Manager, Joe Gavin stated that out of the 8 major stakeholders involved in the docklands, 3 had reached the point of appointing architects and engineers to put forward proposals. BUT some Councillors said that this may be too little too late if Haulbowline Island gets the nod for an IFSC centre as proposed, which would probably make the docklands the biggest white elephant and waste of money in the states history!!
😮Have the City Fathers not noticed that we live in a market economy? The fact that, during an unprecedented economic boom, no investor reponded to what was on offer in the Docklands Plan might indicate that the problem lies with the Plan and not with the stakeholders. The Docks have real potential if the Plan has market realism but anyone who believes that an isolated cul de sac like Haulbowline could become a new IFSC has completely lost the plot.
@Dieter wrote:
Have the City Fathers not noticed that we live in a market economy? The fact that, during an unprecedented economic boom, no investor reponded to what was on offer in the Docklands Plan might indicate that the problem lies with the Plan and not with the stakeholders. The Docks have real potential if the Plan has market realism but anyone who believes that an isolated cul de sac like Haulbowline could become a new IFSC has completely lost the plot.
I agree, i also feel the problem with the docklands is the lack of a comprehensive plan that contains adult type joined up thinking.
Having different councillors / officials batting for different stakeholders is not putting the city first.
Many in CCC feel, as you do that Haulbowline is a complete non runner.@kite wrote:
meanwhile the POC listed building on Custom House Quay is at the point of collapse.
It may be worth more as a site than to restore / redevelop this historic Cork building?I assume that this is the bonded warehouse building.
I’m sure it would be worth more as a site for offices than in its current incarnation. But, from the heritage perspective and the need to maintain building variety in the Docklands it needs to be preserved. If it is in so much danger, the city council should consider a CPO on the site.
Does anyone have a pic of the POC listed building on Custom Quay handy? I can’t quite picture it! 😮
@rebel_city wrote:
Does anyone have a pic of the POC listed building on Custom Quay handy? I can’t quite picture it! 😮
You will find a photo here rebel_city http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/corkimages/misc-bonded.shtml
@jungle wrote:
I assume that this is the bonded warehouse building.
I’m sure it would be worth more as a site for offices than in its current incarnation. But, from the heritage perspective and the need to maintain building variety in the Docklands it needs to be preserved. If it is in so much danger, the city council should consider a CPO on the site.
It would be a waste to the city as offices / commercial development – just imagine those buildings restored and the extensions demolished, original roof and canopies restored,restaurants,cafes’art galleries,exhibitions on there and useable to the public ! Lots of similar projects in Copenhagen and they are a fantastic addition to a city with few visitor attractions like a maritime museum would fit in nicely there.
@Spinal Tap wrote:
It would be a waste to the city as offices / commercial development – just imagine those buildings restored and the extensions demolished, original roof and canopies restored,restaurants,cafes’art galleries,exhibitions on there and useable to the public ! Lots of similar projects in Copenhagen and they are a fantastic addition to a city with few visitor attractions like a maritime museum would fit in nicely there.
Would question the commercial viability of them but would like to see that, would also like to see some apartments in there to ensure animation throughout the week
@jdivision wrote:
Would question the commercial viability of them but would like to see that, would also like to see some apartments in there to ensure animation throughout the week
Saw some sketches a few years ago for a 30 storey tower on that site which were appaliinig.
If the same buildings were in such a great location in Dublin could you imagine them being neglected and awaiting development for so long ?As for commercial viability a mixed use development of museum,restaurants,cafes & bars in an area which is taking off at the moment anyway.Apartments would require parking.Ban cars and restore the excellent cobbles as a public space.Bars etc would keep it annimated in the evenings.
As ever in Cork all it needs is a bit of imagination but things take SO much longer in Cork which can be frustrating but maybe in the longer term benificial as if some of the schemes that I have seen for that area including the Lower Glanmire Road came to fruition the place would be destroyed.@Spinal Tap wrote:
It would be a waste to the city as offices / commercial development – just imagine those buildings restored and the extensions demolished, original roof and canopies restored,restaurants,cafes’art galleries,exhibitions on there and useable to the public ! Lots of similar projects in Copenhagen and they are a fantastic addition to a city with few visitor attractions like a maritime museum would fit in nicely there.
And in fact, they are one of the few buildings in the docklands worth retaining – perhaps Odlums and a few individual buildings on Victoria Rd as well – so it makes it all the more important that they aren’t allowed to decay.
Like jdivision, I wonder if entirely devoting it to restaurant/cafe/gallery use is completely viable. Possibly that could be used for the ground floor. The upper floor might be effetively used as an incubator unit for new media and design, which could also give a showcase retail element to the ground floor.
On the subject of the building itself, is the canopy an original feature of the building or a later addition?
@jungle wrote:
And in fact, they are one of the few buildings in the docklands worth retaining – perhaps Odlums and a few individual buildings on Victoria Rd as well – so it makes it all the more important that they aren’t allowed to decay.
Like jdivision, I wonder if entirely devoting it to restaurant/cafe/gallery use is completely viable. Possibly that could be used for the ground floor. The upper floor might be effetively used as an incubator unit for new media and design, which could also give a showcase retail element to the ground floor.
On the subject of the building itself, is the canopy an original feature of the building or a later addition?
AFAIK the canopies are original as you can see the stonework on the northern facade where slots were allowed for the supports which are now missing and would have been similar to the southern elevation.
As for media design – excellent idea but getting the buildings restored and open to the public should be an urgency as they are visibly decaying.With the Elysian and other develpopments in the area it would be a fantastic opportunity as occupiers and office workers would like to get near the water and socialise etc away from the “sterility” of all the new construction in the area.
The Odlums buildings are protected and will be retained with apartments on upper levels as I have seen on a proposal.
@jungle wrote:
And in fact, they are one of the few buildings in the docklands worth retaining – perhaps Odlums and a few individual buildings on Victoria Rd as well – so it makes it all the more important that they aren’t allowed to decay.
Like jdivision, I wonder if entirely devoting it to restaurant/cafe/gallery use is completely viable. Possibly that could be used for the ground floor. The upper floor might be effetively used as an incubator unit for new media and design, which could also give a showcase retail element to the ground floor.
On the subject of the building itself, is the canopy an original feature of the building or a later addition?
POC sent a letter to Cork Bonded Warehouses on 24th March 2000 reminding CBW that under the terms of the 1918 Lease under which they hold the property there is an obligation on them that they “will well and substantially repair cleanse maintain amend and in good and tenantable repair order and condition keep the said premises and all new buildings and works which may at any time during the said time be erected on and all additions made to the said premises and the fixtures therein and the walls fences vaults roads sewers drains and appurtenances thereof with all necessary reparations cleansings and amendments whatsoever (damage by fire excepted) and the said premises so repaired cleansed maintained amended and kept as aforesaid will at the expiration or sooner determination of this demise quietly yield up to the Lessors together with all additions and improvements made thereto in the meantime and all fixtures of every kind in or upon the said premises or which during the said term may be affixed or fastened to or upon the same ..”.
POC called on CBW to comply in full with the above covenant having regard to the terms of a letter from Mr. John Power, Building Control Officer, Cork City Council with particular reference to the south east corner of the premises and the Schedule of Dilapidations dated June 1999 which was served on them from the POC.What has happened in the 6 years since that letter?, the building is in a worse state now than 2000
This fine building needs to be saved, before it’s too late.@Spinal Tap wrote:
As for commercial viability a mixed use development of museum,restaurants,cafes & bars in an area which is taking off at the moment anyway.Apartments would require parking.Ban cars and restore the excellent cobbles as a public space.Bars etc would keep it annimated in the evenings.
As ever in Cork all it needs is a bit of imagination but things take SO much longer in Cork which can be frustrating but maybe in the longer term benificial as if some of the schemes that I have seen for that area including the Lower Glanmire Road came to fruition the place would be destroyed.Cork’s nighttime hub is away from that area and silly though it may seen it’s quite hard to persuade people (not just in Cork, but everywhere) to walk away from established night time areas in order to visit new bars outside of it. Examples in Dublin include the IFSC and in London would be the old bonded warehouses next to Canary Wharf which have been converted into cafes and pubs. It’s no coincidence that these areas are both former docklands – so slight out of the city centre – and completely dead at the weekend and most weekday evenings. While I think the buildings in Cork would be superb for the purpose it would be hard for operators to make them work until further substantial development takes place in the docklands. Given the state of the building, it’s imperative that some form of redevelopment happens now. I would also recommend that somebody write to the building control officer about the state of the buildings or alternatively ring a councillor. Living in Dublin now I wouldn’t have an impact if I did either.
@jdivision wrote:
…Given the state of the building, it’s imperative that some form of redevelopment happens now. I would also recommend that somebody write to the building control officer about the state of the buildings or alternatively ring a councillor. Living in Dublin now I wouldn’t have an impact if I did either.
I for one will take your advice and write to the building control officer as in my opinion this is one of the finest buildings in the city, the outside is great but the interior is truly incredible.
Im not sure if CCC will take any notice of the letter as they are aware of the state of the bonded warehouses for years + they are supposed to be obliged not to let any building or site to fall into a state of dereliction under the Derelict Site Act. CCC are breaking the law by allowing this building to fall into a state of near collapse.:mad: 😮
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