cork city boundary extension
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@Praxiteles wrote:
Just like the Reichstag in 1933. No one opposed the little man’s rise and Hindenburg had little option but to bring him into government in the vain hope of taming him. It did not take him too long, however, to start making ultimatums….
can we give over on comparing J Gavin to HItler in 1933? between that now and another councillor calling him Napolean, by the time the 2008/9 boundary extension happens we will have run out of historical figures.
Lets stick to what you all think of the boundary extension. Its been due for years and media reports seem that the city council are being very high handed about it so instead of bringing in an arbitrator and agreeing some sort of compo figure for the county council, this will drag on for ages, the councillors will end up doing less than they already do anyway and its to our own detriment in that the eyes will be taken off things like the shambles that is the electoral register (i was deleted from it even though i sent back the councils own form about registering a change of address) and poor transport in cork, the delay in kent station, the delay in the docklands etc etc
All the stupid invalid historical references on this site should be deleted as the are distracting from the debate.
Cork City needs the boundary extension a sthe last one was in 1966 and the parish pump political response from some of our county councillors is akin to a Ballymagash or Kilnascully farce.They are not acting in the citizens of this City or County’s interests for proper and ordered future planning between the 2 duristictions.
I am sure that this argument will run on for a while whilst they play to the galleries but at the end of this process they will have to agree an extension or else the Government of the state will do it for them.@Spinal Tap wrote:
All the stupid invalid historical references on this site should be deleted as the are distracting from the debate.
Cork City needs the boundary extension a sthe last one was in 1966 and the parish pump political response from some of our county councillors is akin to a Ballymagash or Kilnascully farce.They are not acting in the citizens of this City or County’s interests for proper and ordered future planning between the 2 duristictions.
I am sure that this argument will run on for a while whilst they play to the galleries but at the end of this process they will have to agree an extension or else the Government of the state will do it for them.County Councillors might be worried now by the prospect of a city boundary extension but they will need the services of the HSE if the suggestion put before city councilors last night comes to fruition.
A proposal that Cork city retain it’s local representation for the city as it now exists and form borough type councils for the proposed extended area may give our county cousins the impression that our city fathers do not want them dragging mud onto the hallowed steps of City Hall?The boundary proposal is to be sent to County hall following last night’s vote.
My reading of the Local Government Act 2001 is that the County will have to respond within 6 months.
Failing a responce the city will be justified in going to the Minister on a solo run.It’s clearly about rates.
The county council must be taking a huge amount of cash out of the businesses which are effectively in the city but are designated as county council areas.
There’s a very unfair scenario where by the city centre is increasingly competiting with suburban shopping malls which are paying rates to the county council.
The city council also provides a disproportionately high amount of social housing and other services that simply are not provided by the county council on anything like the same scale.
Those suburban areas really do need to be merged into the city for it to make any sense from an economic perspective.
It’s grossly unfair to simply “hive off” the edges of the city, which are fairly wealthy, and leave the city itself as a small, sparcely populated centre and a large council estates.
Increasing Cork City’s population will also see it being taken far more seriously at national level. You’d be supprised at how many people just read the official population statistics and assume it’s tiny.
It would also allow for better real urban planning / infrastructural development. As it stands the city /county divide isn’t really helping things much.
A strong city council is far better able to deal with urban issues that impact upon all of those areas than a big amorphous county council.
If anything, it should increase accountability .
The daftest thing of all is the location of Cork COUNTY Hall. In the largest county in the country, nowhere could be found to locate the County Hall: it is within the jurisdiction of the City Council. Presumably the City Council derives rates for it.
@kite wrote:
A bridge too far for Joe Gavin??
Today’s Irish Examiner’s story on the boundary extension]http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=18248-qqqx=1.asp[/url]
Ah, yes. The line-up for the Kristallnacht….Cork County counsellors should be sure to close their window shutters very tightly, from this point forward. By the looks of things we are heading towards a Reichswasserleiche.
@Spinal Tap wrote:
All the stupid invalid historical references on this site should be deleted as the are distracting from the debate.
Cork City needs the boundary extension a sthe last one was in 1966 and the parish pump political response from some of our county councillors is akin to a Ballymagash or Kilnascully farce.They are not acting in the citizens of this City or County’s interests for proper and ordered future planning between the 2 duristictions.
I am sure that this argument will run on for a while whilst they play to the galleries but at the end of this process they will have to agree an extension or else the Government of the state will do it for them.You see! What did I say about an impending Reichswasserleiche?
What is history, and histoical characters, if not a warning for us?
@Pug wrote:
can we give over on comparing J Gavin to HItler in 1933? between that now and another councillor calling him Napolean, by the time the 2008/9 boundary extension happens we will have run out of historical figures.
Lets stick to what you all think of the boundary extension. Its been due for years and media reports seem that the city council are being very high handed about it so instead of bringing in an arbitrator and agreeing some sort of compo figure for the county council, this will drag on for ages, the councillors will end up doing less than they already do anyway and its to our own detriment in that the eyes will be taken off things like the shambles that is the electoral register (i was deleted from it even though i sent back the councils own form about registering a change of address) and poor transport in cork, the delay in kent station, the delay in the docklands etc etc
Praxiteles never mentioned the H word!
It is just as effective to convey what one thinks of the boundary extension between the lines !
One farmer whose lands straddle the existing city /council border was plagued by developers in the past few months seeking to buy his land for twice what it was worth as farmland.
Mr.O’ knowing the way the mafia works in Cork held off the sale.
He is now out celebrating, and looking forward to the Porsche car show in the Vienna Woods Hotel where he can rub shoulders with the other property speculators in the city. :rolleyes:Proposed city boundary extension: http://www.corkcity.ie/news/pdf/Borough_Boundary_Map_081106.pdf
@phatman wrote:
Proposed city boundary extension: http://www.corkcity.ie/news/pdf/Borough_Boundary_Map_081106.pdf
On that map, the boundary appears to bisect the village of Ballygarvan. Why not use the river to the south of it as the boundary instead?
@phatman wrote:
Proposed city boundary extension: http://www.corkcity.ie/news/pdf/Borough_Boundary_Map_081106.pdf
With this amount of territory being absorbed into the City, the County of Cork could soon be smaller than Louth. In this context I have a question: we know that the Cork City Council will have a lot to say about this annexation]Angriff[/I]; but will the persons living in the disputed territories be given a chance directly to say what they think about this proposal by means of a plebiscite?
Joe Gavin and the City Council need have no fears about democracy and plebiscites – when approached in the right way. A leaf could be taken out of the histroy ofthe Austrian Anschluss of 1938. Every effort was made to give the Austrian population a chance to assent to the Anschluss in demorcatic manner as the enclosed Stimmzettel (ballot paper) clearly shows. It would not be too difficult to adapt it to the Cork situation…
@Praxiteles wrote:
With this amount of territory being absorbed into the City, the County of Cork could soon be smaller than Louth. In this context I have a question: we know that the Cork City Council will have a lot to say about this annexation]Angriff[/I]; but will the persons living in the disputed territories be given a chance directly to say what they think about this proposal by means of a plebiscite?
My reading of the boundary situation is that it is handled like a Part 8 planning decision, you are free to make an observation / submission BUT the Minister calls the shots at the end of the day.
The City Council has to;
(a) furnish a copy of the proposal to each local authority whose boundary is affected by the proposal and such other local authorities as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Minister and each authority so affected by a proposal is referred to in this Part as a “respondent”,
b) publish a notice of the proposal in the form so prescribed giving details of the proposal and inviting submissions with regard to it from any person concerned within such period as is specified in the notice, and
(c) otherwise inform such persons of the proposal as may be so prescribed.
(4) (a) Within 6 months from the receipt by each respondent of a copy of the proposal or such longer period as may be agreed upon by the proposer and the respondent, each respondent shall consider the proposal and make a statement of its response to the proposal (in this Part referred to as a “statement of response”), and furnish a copy of it to the proposer.
(b) The making of a statement of response is a reserved function.
(5) Following consideration by a proposer of any submission that it receives within the period referred to in subsection (3)(b) and of any statement of response furnished to it in accordance with subsection (4)(a), the proposer may by resolution amend the proposal in such manner as it thinks fit and a proposal so amended is referred to in this Part as an “amended proposal”.
(Local Government Act)Just like the little man himself!!
And where in the middle of all of the above do we find Das Volk?
@Praxiteles wrote:
Joe Gavin and the City Council need have no fears about democracy and plebiscites – when approached in the right way. A leaf could be taken out of the histroy ofthe Austrian Anschluss of 1938. Every effort was made to give the Austrian population a chance to assent to the Anschluss in demorcatic manner as the enclosed Stimmzettel (ballot paper) clearly shows. It would not be too difficult to adapt it to the Cork situation…
Indeed one could even adapt it electronically for use on the mothballed E-Voting system…. could bring a whole new meaning to Vorsprung durch Technik…
@Praxiteles wrote:
Just like the little man himself!!
And where in the middle of all of the above do we find Das Volk?
On wrong side of the Rates fence….
I wonder does anybody else think that it is becoming increasingly urgent to take radical measures to democratise our civic and political institutions? How can a major decision such as the boundary question be taken in any democracy WITHOUT direct reference to the people immediately effected by it?
How long more will it take before another little man will stand up inGrand Parade quite deluded that he is addressing the Heldenplatz?
@samuel j wrote:
Indeed one could even adapt it electronically for use on the mothballed E-Voting system…. could bring a whole new meaning to Vorsprung durch Technik…
That would of course ensure that the general population had even greater facility for expressing their assent to the Anschluss.
@Praxiteles wrote:
That would of course ensure that the general population had even greater facility for expressing their assent to the Anschluss.
Not if we got the dutch lads over
From RTE
05 October 2006 19:33
A group of computer hackers in the Netherlands says it has discovered major security flaws in the electronic voting machines used there.
The Irish Government has bought similar voting machines from the same Dutch manufacturer.
On Dutch television last night, the group, calling itself ‘We Don’t Trust These Electronic Voting Machines’, demonstrated how it hacked into the machines to play video games and stage an electoral fraud.
The hack involves replacing one of the microchips in the machine with one containing programming codes written by the hackers.
The machines were easy to break into. Each of the 8,000 machines used in Holland has the same lock and one key will open all of them.The hacker group says it obtained its key technical data from the report of an independent expert group, commissioned by the Irish Government, to examine the security of electronic voting machines in Ireland.”
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