college green/ o’connell street plaza and pedestrians
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@alonso wrote:
who told you being in government was being in power. The city is controlled by Dublin Bus not the government, national or local 😉
I just hope they don’t get totally creamed on Friday. Compare this plan to the visions of the other parties…. what vision you may ask. Precisely say I and I despair. But then i recall this and despair even more so http://www.newheartfordublin.ie/about.html and then almost immediately recall this and breathe a small sigh of relief
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1110/1225925618848.htmlIt’s a rollercoaster alright, this city planning and urban design lark
Jebus! They Wish!!
It’s actually controlled by about 25 mechanics who down tools (somehow they accidently get them into their hands from time to time) the minute the Managers viciously ask a driver to get out and pick up a few passengers.
I see works are already underway for Bus Gate, with the pedestrian crossing at the Trinity side of the College Street island being significantly widened. Of course why this wasn’t done twenty years ago is anyone’s guess. But credit where due, the granite kerbstones are being carefully stored, as is now standard practice in the city. Problems with antique paving in Dublin tend to arise with relaying though…
The opportunity should be taken at this point to rationalise and improve the College Street island, in spite of imminent Metro works, which are still some way down the line. All for extremely minimal expense, all of the trees here should be removed, along with the above-ground lavatory paraphernalia, telephone kiosks, tarmaced surfaces and signal boxes. A simple but attractive concrete-flagged surface with robust granite edging, a handful of elegant lamp standards and benches languishing in storage out in Marrowbone Lane, and some decent planters if needs be, would simply transform this important part of the city, restoring order, dignity and (shock!) sightlines to the portico of the House of Lords, and tide us over for a couple of years. As it is, significant amounts of the paving is already being dug up. Simple simple measures people…
Interesting view of College Street there, gunter. Makes the city look like a charming Tallin-esque toytown (with a dash of Soviet pazazz chucked in to the bottom left for good measure).
@jimg wrote:
The presence of a considerable number of buses does not contribute positively to the urban environment obviously. Unfortunately, for the moment it is a vital public transport mode particularly given Dublin’s obvious shortcomings in terms of rail. One of the worst aspects is the air pollution and this is exacerbated significantly by the stop/start nature of the current flow of buses through this area of town. If the passage of buses can at least me made smother and more efficient, then the environmental damage they cause will be lessened considerably.
Sadly, being pragmatic, Dublin’s topography means that there are certain streets which will continue to serve the role as arterial routes for motorised traffic for the foreseeable future and unfortunately, I think it’s unavoidable that College Green will have a role in this regard. The aim should be to reduce the amount of motorised traffic on these routes as much as possible (and any sort of restriction helps in this regard) while building largely pedestrianised zones in the urban islands created between them. This would be cheap and easy to achieve and would be a step in the right direction until it is no longer necessary to carry passengers by bus around the city centre and the entire centre can be reclaimed for pedestrians, cyclists and clean/quiet on-street trams. Is it my imagination or did the expansion of pedestrianisation in Dublin slow or stop 5 or 10 years ago?
I think you’re probably right on this jimg. We have to be pragmatic until such a time as a wider transport infrastructure is in place. But the problem that so many people have with this plan, and understandably so, is that in typical fashion in this city, the scheme will be used as the opening of a door which may prove impossible to close again. Even amongst many business interests in the city, aside from their greatest concerns about perceived reduced shopping access to the core, they do view it in a manner as most of us here do – leading to a reduction in quality of an already significantly compromised core, where services and infrastructure take precedence over a quality civic life and enjoyment of place.
These latter points are critical factors in suburbanites’ decision-making about where to go shopping and cultural consumption – not on a day-to-day basis, but for special or ‘big ticket’ purchases or services, at a time when Dundrum et al are increasingly catching up in terms of attractions, if not on experience. Negating the quality of the public realm of the city centre in the longer term is to compromise its most prized asset: the one element out-of-town centre cannot compete with on any level. There is a fear that the Irish public administration mentality, which tends to focus on micro practicalities, will simply sustain Bus Gate long beyond its shelf-life, while also making it more difficult to effect radical civic improvement of the city’s ceremonial core. The implemented limited hours of operation is probably worth a shot anyway.
I’m not sure Graham. I could be wrong but my impression was that the intention of “bus gate” was to allow the more efficient passage of buses through this area of the city not to funnel extra buses through there. (Actually when you think about it, where would they come from? There there are no other South to North routes in the city centre. In addition, Dublin Bus is actually cutting it’s fleet I believe.) So I don’t view it as a “foot in the door” sort of thing and it’s hard to take city centre traders’ sky-will-fall-down concerns seriously after they made similar noises about the Luas which proved to be completely unfounded. Anything which gets buses out of that area quickly and efficiently is to be welcomed. I think if the flow was smooth and efficient, the “bus depot” effect created by buses stuck in traffic, buses stopped for pick up, buses queuing for a place to stop, etc. would be minimised. Anyway, whatever about buses traveling through large WSC streets, theres is no justification ever for sending buses down small intimate streets like Suffolk St.
Like it or not we are stuck with buses as the prime public transport mode for a few years yet. I don’t see where else buses could go through the city without seriously compromising the utility of their routes. Restrict the number of buses and you’d murder the city commercially; it might look nice for a year or two but there’d be tumbleweed in the city if you stopped buses from crossing the centre. The only option is to try and mitigate their damage and Bus Gate does that to a degree. No it’s not perfect but I think it is a small positive step.
Yes this should be the perfect time to show that the city has a bit of pride in its centre of gravity and it could be done relatively cheaply. Particularly I’d be 100% in favour of taking a chainsaw to every single tree in College Green, Westmoreland St and the East end of Pearse St. These are some of the most important buildings and vistas in Dublin and obscuring and masking them with a hodge podge of irregularly laid out and in some cases deformed trees is disgraceful.
@Bago wrote:
Do you drive? Bad idea.
Yeah I do and I hate parking fines and parking fees… The humps in Ireland are for ladies
Carrer de Jaumel? All you need is a super humps outside starbucks college street . With college green on the level. Some Bluestone block like ruff cut stuff before the speed humps would also be a bonus but not like the re-levelled stuff in temple bar. It also gives off a noise if speeding. The thing to do in college green itself is put the low cut madrid bollards so close together that cars have to drive slowly and have to do right angle like turns with no room for error otherwise the car gets it. Dame St go from 5 lanes to 3 (1 bicycle) with parking median not so sure but possible….Fully agreed jimg regarding traders’ concerns about access to the city – limiting access to College Green is not going to stop shoppers coming into town. Rather, I just mentioned this in the context of the impressive insight some traders and politicians displayed in relation to the importance of a quality public realm and the impact of Bus Gate on this. But a ‘more efficient’ movement of buses through College Green, as I see it, means more opportunity for a wall of buses to clog the space. Indeed by definition, the removal of the dilution afforded by private cars will result in the cells of traffic passing through being dominated by buses relative to the current scenario. As regards Dublin Bus’s fleet being reduced, at the very least this will only be sustained for a year or two – it is not a long-term solution, whereas Bus Gate has the potential to be. The taxi fleet is also ever-expanding to insane levels. But the net effects either way are so arbitrary to the average punter that we might as well give it a trial run, as is being rolled out.
The new crossing at the Trinity side of College Street, moved eastwards and made substantially wider. Alas, those crossing tiles are not buff coloured, but entirely unnecessary garish red, coated in dust.
The few pieces of antique paving uplifted during the work.
And as just reinstated awaiting repointing.
(don’t get me started on the logic of joints there)
The vast area of the island being dug up right now. Appallingly insensitive treatment of the city’s vernacular tarmaced surfaces!
Below was taken before the above works had extended, but the amount of municipal tat clogging the island is something else. All of this should be wiped clean, including the trees.
The current head-on view of the portico of the House of Lords. I risked my life attempting to get it.
Just shameful. Interestingly though, the Moore statue is not on axis with the portico, addressing it as it does at a slight angle from left of centre. Quite odd given there was ample room to make him such originally.
@GrahamH wrote:
(don’t get me started on the logic of joints there)
telecoms and politicians~
if college green was on the level you would not need it…
coláiste oiliúna;
green = adj glas m1
green = uaine f4
green = faiche f4the last photo right in the middle of the grey box
@missarchi wrote:
“the engineering option”
@Rory W wrote:
Sill taking the medication missarchi?
SO I’m not the only one that finds it annoying when he fills threads with such random bollox? thank god.
@Morlan wrote:
The absolute gem of the south city centre. Buy out the car parks, force Dublin Bus to change their routes, get the Luas in. Pedestrianise all streets. What a fantastic city Dublin could be. 🙁
How did you highlight that, Morlan?
@Cathal Dunne wrote:
How did you highlight that, Morlan?
In Photoshop, paste in your map and then duplicate it so you have two layers. Turn down the brightness of the bottom layer.. then go to the top layer and erase the areas you don’t want highlighted.
@Morlan wrote:
In Photoshop, paste in your map and then duplicate it so you have two layers. Turn down the brightness of the bottom layer.. then go to the top layer and erase the areas you don’t want highlighted.
I see. Thank you very much for the response. I had thought that there was an option to edit Google Maps/Earth if you had a professional edition of it.
Aha, I was wondering too. Very nice presentation effect indeed.
Just as Dame Street has often popped into this thread, many stretches of this grand old thoroughfare are sadly going to pot in respect of shopfronts and the wider public realm. This farcical vista presents itself to visitors and citizens alike on the so-called, officially-termed Grand Civic Thoroughfare of the city as one approaches the historic environs of City Hall and Dublin Castle.
If ever there was a doubt in anybody’s mind that all principal streets in the city centre should be Architectural Conservation Areas, this stands as but one example of many as to why things simply must change. Not that most of this signage is legal under even standard planning controls, but ACA status (in theory anyway) at least affords much greater development control on the part of the local authority, and gives reason to carry out (in theory) much more rigorous monitoring of these areas. Parliament Street, Westmoreland Street and Grafton Street are experiencing a scourge of similar tawdry tat which needs to be stamped out hard if we are to achieve anything remotely like this oft-touted ‘quality city’. We’re not even at the starting line.
RPA will be holding an Open Day for Luas City Centre/Broombridge (Line BXD):
Wednesday, 10th June 2009, 16:00 – 20:00hrs
Jury’s Hotel, Parnell Street, Dublin 1.How disappointing to see the works on College Green doing nothing to change the status quo on this poorly used public space. The infamous view of the Green from Grafton Street will still contain all that collection of street tat after the paving is relaid as it did before (very important phone boxes there).
No new street lighting proposed – even though the streetlighting around here is among the ugliest in the city. Why not some of the large floodlights from O’Connell Street plaza?
Assorted poles and signage and phone boxes and telecom cabinets all stay in place…in fact even more poles will be required because as we all know any pedestrian crossing has to consist of about 10 sets of lights these days. As with signage, the more lights you see the more likely you are to take notice.
And of course those lovely acres of tarmac will still be there too by the looks of it, despite the new paving being laid.Fully agreed. Not every aspect of the public domain has to be ‘managed’ within an inch of its life. Also agreed about the works currently underway. Indeed things are so preposterous on the College Street island that they are crisply paving around the splodges of tarmac! Incredible.
I promised myself I’d go easy on the Bus Gate works (i.e. civic improvement works of the most basic nature that should have been carried out 20 years ago independent of any transport policy). There is good quality work taking place in some virgin territory, but really and truly, what is happening in front of the Bank of Ireland simply beggars belief.
Firstly, one would naturally suppose, in spite of chaotic and destructive works involving historic paving still abounding across the city, that a decent effort would be made to manage change sensitively in the historic environs of College Green – even if for PR never mind matters cultural, or civilised for that matter. Secondly, one would have thought that the outstandingly beautiful setted entrances to the Bank of Ireland, composed of unique rust-toned granite setts laid in gracious sweeps emerging from the gates, flanked at either side by historic granite paving, in totality comprising the very best modern-day paving composition anywhere in Dublin city centre, would be duly respected.
I simply cannot believe what is happening in front of our eyes by Sierra’s botchmen.
This is the surviving sweep at the west (Dame Street) end (cameraphone).
This is what is happening at the east, pedestrian crossing end.
Firstly, as can be seen, it has been deemed appropriate that the flanking granite paving be gouged out to cater for preposterous little scraps of crossing stud tiles. How can such a tiny feature possibly aid the visually impaired? In any event, why on earth are these needed at this crossing? This is health and safety or mobility correctness gone crazy. All at the expense of the historic setting of the Bank of Ireland. The composition has been ruined. And need it even be noted the new thin Chinese granite kerbs do no justice to the robust entrance gates.
The same tiled treatment looks to be going in at the completely gouged out opposite side, completely stealing the limelight from the rusty setts.
Secondly, all of the fabulous seemingly hand-cut setts have been scandalously sliced the entire way along their length with a circular saw. This is not even the stuff of Bob the Builder.
A crude line of cement will now be pasted the whole way along the junction’s length.
Back again on the opposite side, the driveway is being lop-sidedly widened in compensation. Here, setts are being laughably re-laid directly abutting the chainsawed line! The existing half-setts are not even being taken out to enable a neat intercourse with the new setts. You couldn’t make this up.
Then at the new rounded corner, thin and weak kerbstones of Chinese granite are being laid against the robust Dublin kerbstones alongside.
While the original curved stones remained stacked in a heap in the middle of the site.
Who the hell is overseeing this mess? Anyone? I dare not go back and see what other delights they have in store for us.
And again on the issue of coloured crossing tiles, if fawn coloured can be used outside the Bank, why on earth is this (not to mention more palatable) colour not being used across the board? Why is red being used on the opposite side of this very junction?! Or over on College Street? While over at Trinity Street it’s back to fawn again. Absolutely no co-ordination.
I just cannot believe what is going on here. You’d think for such a flagship contract, involving the ceremonial and historic heart of the city, and encompassing a number of challenging conservation requirements, that a masterplan of some kind would be drawn up. I really shouldn’t be surprised at this mess – also taking account of the lack of progress on the trees and all the other junk – but one really would have to despair in this city. There’s just no aspiration to quality, plain and simple.
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