Building on Sean McDermott St.

More matter with less art.

‘How weary, stale, flat, and unprofitable’ (Hamlet: 1,2,129)

@hutton wrote:

Anyhow, what an odd montage! That the proposer has managed to include 9 vehicles in the foreground is quite an accomplishment…

Very true this part of town hasn’t seen 9 vehicles together in 50 years!

Someone jumped on Mashkadob for saying it should be cleared; you were right as I’m sure he felt landfill for the portico was the way to go. I can’t see this portico ever working at this location given the prevailing surroundings and the architects on this scheme have obviously regarded it as no more than an inconvenience.

I think that the portico should be taken down and reassembled as a folly in a city park such as St Annes or the Phoenix Park or even Mountjoy Square as it is after all local heritage.

The proposed treatment is however the worst of both worlds

That’s a terrible proposal – the remnants of the church look tacked on like a rolls royce grill on a mini clubman.

Better to dismantle the remains and move them to a garden / park somewhere.

@Devin wrote:

There’s a plan to consume it within a glazed building. Planning Ref. 1174/08 :

From DCC website:

Full Development Description

Planning permission for development on the lands known as Convent Lands. The development will consist of the provision of 179 no. residential units (27 no. 1 bed, 89 no. 2 bed, 61 no. 3 bed, 2 no. 4 bed) and 18 no. live/work unit in five blocks, one of which is the refurbished Main Convent Building 3,112sqm local area office for Dublin City Council; 901sqm of office space incorporating the portico of the Scots Presbyterian Church/Cornmill site (Protected Structure) fronting Sean McDermott Street; 216.1sqm of office space for the Crinan Project on a site measuring 0.891 hectares. The development will comprise the following; Demolition of 77 Sean McDermott Street Lower; Construction of Block A, an eight/nine storey apartment block with terraces and balconies fronting Railway Street, consisting of 70 no. units (7no. 1 bed, 35 no. 2 bed, 27 no. 3 bed, 1 no. 4 bed); Construction of Block B, an eight/nine storey apartment block with terraces and balconies fronting Railway Street, consisting of 73 units (12 no. 1 bed, 33 no. 2 bed, 28 no. 3 bed) and a 2 storey Crinan Project of 216.1sqm of office/workshop space; Construction of Block C, a six storey apartment block with terraces and balconies central to the site, to the south of the existing Convent Building (Block E), consisting of 23 units (10 no. 2 bed, 12 no. 3 bed, 1no. 4 bed); Construction of Block D, a six storey apartment block with terraces and balconies facing onto Sean McDermott Street Lower, consisting of 13 units (6 no. 2 bed, 7 no. 3 bed); Refurbishment of The Convent Building (Block E) into apartments consisting of 18 units (8 no. 1 bed, 5 no. 2 bed, 4 no. 3 bed, 1 no. 4 bed); Construction of Block F, a three/five storey building bordering Gloucester Lane to provide Dublin City Council with a Civic Centre/One Stop Shop (three storey at Sean McDermott Street, five storey at Railway Street), with a gross internal floor area of 3,112sqm; Construction of Block G, a four storey 901sqm office building incorporating the portico of the former Scots Presbyterian Church (Protected Structure) fronting Sean McDermott Street Lower; provision of 181 no. car parking spaces in a single level basement accessed via ramps from a new access point on Railway Street. Existing access into the site will also be retained from Sean McDermott Street; All associated site development works above and below ground required to facilitate the development, including the provision of landscaped public open space along Gloucester Lane and private and semi-private landscaped open space within the development and roof gardens and construction of an ESB sub station and switch room.

Silly to move it, this fragment has lost so much, to loose its location to; besides, the BB is going to be full of this lido and the Browne doorway in Eyre Sq is a lesson in how old entranceways don’t work as freestanding follies. The proposal is appalling, but surely if we are to dream, a clever modern building could incorporate this remnant in an artful and exciting way.

@johnglas wrote:

Hutton; Who are the architects responsible for this miscegenation? I think we should know.
You’re never wrong to dream – but I think the BB’s a bit too far away and out of context. Why not locate it at one of the very generous road intersections in this area? It could be read as a modern urban folly – why should the aristos have all the whimsy?
Seriously, whatever is done it needs treated with respect as part of the area’s patrimony (is that gendered language?) – at the developer’s expense of course.

The applicant is Kimtor Ltd, while the site notice was signed off by Tiros Resources of 10 Lower Hatch Street, D2.

From the IT:
@Irish TimesOffice and apartment scheme for Sean McDermott Street

The Greek-style portico of the former Scots Presbyterian church fronting Sean McDermott St is part of a planning application by Kimtor Ltd which says it will form part of the façade for a four-storey office block. The protected structure is believed to be mid 19th century but was abandoned early in the 20th century and later used as a store before being burned down in the 1980s leaving only a façade.

Kimtor Ltd also wants to build 179 apartments on former convent lands between Sean McDermott St and Railway St and Gloucester Lane, as well as 18 live-work units in five blocks up to nine storeys, one of which is the refurbished main convent building with 18 apartments. Around 216sq m (2,325sq ft) of office space is proposed for the Crinan project. A three to five-storey block would provide Dublin City Council with a civic centre/one-stop-shop.

@notjim wrote:

Silly to move it, this fragment has lost so much, to loose its location to; besides, the BB is going to be full of this lido and the Browne doorway in Eyre Sq is a lesson in how old entranceways don’t work as freestanding follies. The proposal is appalling, but surely if we are to dream, a clever modern building could incorporate this remnant in an artful and exciting way.

Ive seen the BB proposals, and I must say frankly Im not convinced – there is a danger that the “lido” could become a failed gimmick imo; all in all the proposed intervention seems tokenistic in the context of what should be a really good redevelopment of Phibsboro and its adajacent areas. The real challenge up there is how to get the former canal to actually function as a linear park; former railways in Paris work very well in this regard, yet the current situation up there is bleak… Imo, BB should really only be approached in a manner that is in keeping with the already existing architectural genres of the area – as opposed to the disasterous reinterpretation a la Wolfe Tone Square.

Also while the Browne doorway is now out of vogue, did it really not function in an urban context? As far as I recall it was never a centre for anti-social behaviour in the way the Anna Livia/ Floozy-in-the-Jacuzzi became. I am open to correction, as indeed I am also open to persuasion on re-incorporation of the Greek facade – but I would caution you as to the scaled-down “mini-monumental” nature of the structure being an obvious hurdle to what should be a relatively high-dense dev on that site, given the now city-centre nature of that location… Is it really compatible or feasible anymore to keep that facade there? 🙁

The location wouldn’t give a budget to do the portico justice in relation to the facade it will front.

The choice here is simple have a lego standard scheme in a terciary location fronted by a Doric portico left in as an inconvenient after thought or have a condition inserted to have the portico moved to a location where the portico has some context; I’m sure that somewhere the symmetary exists to mark an entrance to a park or other civic space where this feature could be admired.

I do agree that an open Plaza is never the place for an entrance door / portico as there will always be a poor reverse view from open street; imagine the arch at Stephens Green in Eyre Square :rolleyes:

@notjim wrote:

I understand that the building around this facade fragment is going to the mini-monumental, but couldn’t a stone fronted building without a flat facade and strong vertical elements manage to incorporate it in a playful and striking way.

My apologies – I should have made myself clearer, I actually meant that the portico is “mini-monumental” in scale, not the glass yoke thats proposed.

Imo the problem with using the portico as the entrance to BB from the linear park is that it would be lost, in that wheras one approachs the basin directly from Blessington St, the linear park runs perpendicular to the basin and is very tight. Its only a few weeks ago that I was up there, and I had forgotten how confined the space is. Imo the portico should really address/ form part of a vista.

Perhaps a solution could be found here:

Do not forget the architect responsible for the Classical Revival in the United States of America.

http://www.thomasgordonsmitharchitects.com/

Thomas Gordon Smith has designed exquisite churches, a major seminary, and a monastery, plus he has groomed leading lights in the Classical Revival. Thomas Gordon Smith has remodelled the American Neo-Classical wing at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. Absolutely first-rate! And what a sterling gentleman!!

With the Celtic Tiger roaring in full pride, Thomas Gordon Smith ought to be getting calls galore to assist in the restoration and revival of Georgian Architecture. He brings joy and vitality as well as erudition and expertise to all his projects. Floreat!!