British Symbolism on Buildings in Ireland
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There is a fine set of what looks like RUC cap badges on the facade of the new Habitat on College Green (Formerly The Ulster Bank ?)
Surprised Governemnt Buildings of all places hasn’t been mentioned – the blatent nature of the inscriptions is really quite hilarious given the use of the building today, probably the most prominent British influence on a major Dublin building, and on the building where such remnants are least desirable! Brilliant 🙂
It’s not necessarily true to say that the Custom House and Four Courts feature elements of British symbolism – the coat of arms and crowns are that of Ireland – not the British Crown as is commonly percieved. The ‘Kingdom of Ireland’ or something along those lines.
Youghal in Co. Cork is a very “Anglo” town. Sir Walter Raleigh was mayor of the town in 1588 and Queen Elizabeth I visited his house which still stands today. I went to Youghal a few days back because they are having a historical week type thing. The town was chartered and given a mace like all towns and cities in Ireland, which of course, had the emblem of the United Kingdom and the seal of the monarch at the time. You’ll propably find that all of the old towns like Youghal, Kinsale and many other places all have their own maces, which were given to them by the King or Queen of the time. Ireland will never escape it’s British past, we were part of the United Kingdom for over 500 years…… it won’t all dissappear overnight. Oh and Oliver Cromwell left Ireland for the last time from Youghal Harbour…. hehehe, and people say school is a waste of time!
Court house in tralee
http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/kerry/tralee/courthouse.html
we were part of the United Kingdom for over 500 years
For 121 years to be exact.
You tend to be loose with your terminology, for example
lthough Australia is still looking for it’s independance (which they turned down in a vote about five years ago, wanting to remain under Quenn Elizabeth’s rule),
They rejected a republic, but I am not sure whether that republic would have stayed part of the commonwealth, or not. In any case they are not ruled by Elizabeth, but by the local parliaments.
In Seoul, the Korean destroyed almost all physical references to their Japanese colonial past, which was a shame in the sense that many buildings of architectural merit were destroyed and replaced by buildings which were relatively bland and austere are not very pleasing to the eye. As a result, there are veyr few ‘historic’ building in the city, which tends to extinguish whatever charm might exist. I find the city relatively boring in the sense that it is all glass and steel office blocks and concrete housing blocks and not much else besides.
Although I don’t know of any physical references to British rule, the name of the ‘Old English Market’ in Cork probably qualifies as a partial form of British symbolism. And of course Queen Vic was buried in UCC for many years and only recently excavated from her hidden ‘grave’ when the college marked it 150th anniversary. Not sure where she hangs out now though! In any case, she was never given pride of place. After all, this was a city which the crown forces burned to the ground.
Would not be surprised if a garrison town like Bandon had many references. The place seems more ‘English’ than any other town in Ireland. The Heritage center is located in what was Ireland’s first protestant church.
mmmmm….(why do I mostly start this way? Continue lest I regress.) A note: the person who started the thread is a prime example of current symbolism of ‘foreign’ origin being overtly present, albeit phonic. Not living on the Emerald Isle it would be interesting to know at what stage an indigenous resident used the word cheers other than when raising a glass.
Part of the zapper syndome? (Push button ‘1’ and see what you get.)
Kilmainham Court House, Kilmainham Garda station, Royal Hospital, the Richmond Tower and on what remains of the Richmond Barracks.
@corcaighboy wrote:
Although I don’t know of any physical references to British rule, the name of the ‘Old English Market’ in Cork probably qualifies as a partial form of British symbolism. And of course Queen Vic was buried in UCC for many years and only recently excavated from her hidden ‘grave’ when the college marked it 150th anniversary. Not sure where she hangs out now though! In any case, she was never given pride of place. After all, this was a city which the crown forces burned to the ground.
Queen Vic is given pride of place- she’s in a glass cabinet in the main staff common room (adjacent to the aula maxima). This statue was replaced with a statue of St. Finbarr – perched atop the aula maxima roof.
I can still remember the controversy of a few years ago when it was dug up- ridiculous.
Part iof our history is that we were ruled by Britain. There’s nothing we can do about so just embrace it.
I know this thread is NOT going down the line of ripping down ‘English’ buildings and renaming ‘English’ Streets but it reminds me of a guy on local radio in Cork a few years ago.
He was from dublin and was bemoaning the fact that in ‘Rebel’ Cork we still kept places like Wellington Road and Victoria Cross. He then went on to say that it was a shame that our Railway Station was named after a County in England!! How embarressing.
By the way, Cork train station is named KENT station!
True story!this thread seems to be going off on a life of its own.
The fact is that we were a British colony whether we like it or not.
However there is a case for renaming streets etc in certain cases. Afetr all we did so with the train stations – Heuston, Connolly, Mallin, ceannt etc and who would argue with that? Pearse got a street and a station renamed for him. Would we prefer to sit in traffic on Great Brunswick st (as it was known)? In cases where it is fitting to commemorate a great irish man or woman then i would be 100% behind renaming a street whihc bears the trappings of our colonial past. Particularly where the streets bear the names of trueenemies of the Irish people like Camden.
It is perfectly natural for an indepenedent state to remove trappings of a misruled past. In the same way as granite swastikas were destroyed in Warsaw, Amsterdam and Paris
@lunasa wrote:
Not living on the Emerald Isle it would be interesting to know at what stage an indigenous resident used the word cheers other than when raising a glass.
I often sign off emails with it, though I think it’s a legacy of a period spent in Edinburgh rather than English influence (many Scots I know say it out loud as a parting comment, on the phone, say).
Also, I sometimes say farewell in person with a ‘cheerio’- can’t see what all the ruddy bally-hoo is, mate. 🙂Just myself nitpicking ct, so many people are good rather than grand. It wouldn’t be so bad if it were just a question of ethics. It’s the pervasive soap culture. Push buttons one, two, three or four on the zapper. Home decoration is the same.
Me, I’m just grand thanks.Good man, lunasa, good man.
I’m grand too, most of the time.
However, I’m never swell (‘Merikay), and don’t think I’ve ever been bonzer (‘Stroyleea), to be sure to be sure.This bit
ruddy bally-hoo … mate
was just me trying to get as many Englishisms into as short a sentence as possible. Not a dig at your good self.
Ciao for now. 🙂
Murphaph:
I thought of ‘insignia’, but that’s not it either. It’s driving me mad now trying to remember it. Still think it starts with a D though.Don’t think the swastika comparison holds any water.
British interests in Ireland spanned hundreds of years and like-it-or-not are largely responsible for the present fabric of the city.
The occupation of places like Paris and Amsterdam from 1940 to 1944 saw little if any building, rather the attachment of Nazi paraphenalia to pre-existing buildings.
Equally, many Nazi buildings have quite rightly been left in situ in Germany.
The argument about Seoul is a particularly good one. Had we destroyed everything built during our “occupation”, Dublin would be a very bland city.
And as previous posters said, most of these buildings were built on the instructions of an Irish parliament.
I think we should be at a stage politically and emotionally where no further royal or British insignia should ever be removed.
I would also imagine that any structures with such references are already listed.i wouldn’t sugest we destroy everything built during the occupation – far from it – that would mean dismantling everything from Trim castle up. However some things should go and others were correctly removed.
Take the queen victoria statue outside the dail for instance. It would be utterly incongrous and at odds with the exercise of independent government in the houses of the Oireachtais to have let a statue of the figurehead of the country which denied us these rights since 1801 remain there. We gave it to the Australians as a present!
There is a major distinction to be drawn between insignia such as a crown or lion attached to buildings and statues for instance. The latter are clearly erected to memorialise individuals / events and i for one could not countenance the likes of Nelson, Victoria, Gough, William (all gone now) etc (who like it or not took hands in the subjugation of a race) looking down at me from their plinths. The odd crown attachment etc can stay as far as i’m concerned.
One last point while we consider what grand buildings the British gave us. We can have no idea of what would have built by the Irish themselves in their places had we not been colonised and our native industries, trades destroyed. Who is to say we would not have built grander and better. Afterall pre colonisation we were doing alright and had made a contribution to international architecture.
We have had eighty years of independence to add to the stock of great buildings in Dublin and haven’t done such a good job.
@dodger wrote:
Take the queen victoria statue outside the dail for instance. It would be utterly incongrous and at odds with the exercise of independent government in the houses of the Oireachtais to have let a statue of the figurehead of the country which denied us these rights since 1801 remain there.
Don’t forget that Prince Albert is still standing proundly on Leinster Lawn 😀
@corcaighboy wrote:
Although I don’t know of any physical references to British rule, the name of the ‘Old English Market’ in Cork probably qualifies as a partial form of British symbolism.
I was told by a reliable Corkonian source that it was called the “English” market because the sellers spoke English. Up until then Irish was spoken. I’m sure someone will tell me if it’s arse.
@crestfield wrote:
Don’t forget that Prince Albert is still standing proundly on Leinster Lawn 😀
wouldn’t miss him one bit if somebody was to suggest a trip for him down under. He must be missing his missus. this is a connection with the past that i’d like consigned there – to the past.
@kefu wrote:
We have had eighty years of independence to add to the stock of great buildings in Dublin and haven’t done such a good job.
That may be true but there are also good examples of talented irish architects forced to emigrate as a result of misrule – take James Hoban of Kilkenny – built the Whitehouse and the carolina statehouse. He could have been our Gandon.
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