Bridges & Boardwalks
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And yes, the Millenium Bridge is too close to the Ha’penny, and the natural route mentioned should have been used. I often have to make the zig-zag too and is annoying and just silly.
The original alignment for the pedestrian bridge (Jervis Street/Meeting House Square) would indeed have created much greater connectivity (sorry about the pretentious word), but I’d prefer the Howley Harrington bridge design any day to the Group 91 bridge, which was an architectural conceit (does an “all hail group 91” thing exist on on this site???).
That is very good, you have managed to construct a decent and clear piece of communicative writing there. You have separated the issues excellently:
1) Aesthetic value of Group 91 bridge – I agree with you, I didn’t like it at all – it was crap, even if it did try to be ‘stylish’ etc, etc. The same guy did the lamps up in Smithfield too btw, and many think those are a bit over the top too.
2) The placement of the Group 91 bridge though was far superior. No one will actually use that new burrowed tunnel after a while, and just opt to do the ZIG_ZAG maneuvre instead, which is a disgrace in my opinion, considering these public projects do cost as much as they do and are ‘once off’.
It is well worth noting, that Group 91 in their original planning submission to the council, made only one small mistake, which did become their undoing in this matter. They didn’t draw their site boundary over as far as the opposite bank of the Liffey to Temple Bar. Instead opting to just draw the boundary along the mid-course of the Liffey. Meaning, when they came to building the Poddle Bridge, they didn’t have any jurisdiction on the opposite bank of the river. That is how DCC eventually won – on a technicality.
Apparently, sources tell me that DCC were quite miffed about not being part of the whole Temple Bar thing, and went out of their way to enforce their dominance in this small matter. It was unfortunate that such a public project, with so much potential to improve north/south connectivity in the broader context of Dublin city, became engulfed in such political bashing – but such is life. DCC only know one trick you see – this tunnel burrowing idea, which was kind of novel in the 1980s but has since then gotten very tired indeed. But what do DCC do? They continue to pull this one trick they know, out of the drawer every time they need to actually think.
I think we need to try harder to separate issues in that manner here at Archiseek – it is only a point about communication, but would lend increased weigh and value to contributors writing here. It is definitely harder to do and requires more work, in an effort to express oneself properly, but it is worth practicising – it gets easier with practice – being able to juggle the various strands of an argument about the built environment.
Archiseek is thought of by many people out there involved in the built environment, as an aesthetic ping-pong match, a group of ‘style-police’ like the Georgian society or something at its lowest and most ridiculous. However, the opportunity does exist here at Archiseek to expand one’s own awareness of the many strands associated with problem solving in the area of the built environment – a lot of which I never even knew about until visiting the board here at Archiseek. I am sure I do not stand alone in that experience.
Brian/Garethace,
As someone who generally just lurks on this board, I was interested to see you compliment Devin’s “communicative” writing skills.
You should learn from him. In fact learn from George Bernard Shaw who – at the end of a long letter to a friend – apologised for it, saying he didn’t have time for a short one.
Why not write your spiel offline, go away, re-read it and then re-write it again to make the same sense with half the verbiage.
Sure it take more time but it’s worth it – you will get more readers.
Am I th only person who has seen the four boxes erected on Capel Street Bridge. If I am the only one here is a brief description: Four white boxes, imagine the box section of a refridgerated truck, placed equidistant along the bridge, they are about 20 feet long and 10 feet tall. I presume they are to become cafes, but they ruin the beautiful vistas up and down the river. I really think that they are horrible, am I on my own ?
angels – photographs of the kiosks in this thread on page 3
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2150&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
Thanks for the compliment whoever you are, asdasd.
But I do kind of agree with garethace about standards. Sometimes we just bang down something as a quick reaction to what somebody else said in a post, cos we’re in a rush out or something. But I guess it is worth taking the time to write something worth reading.
Yeah , ‘fridges’ is a good word to describe the look of those kiosks at the moment. I’m waiting for them to undergo some kind of transformation….
And why have they been placed directly in front of the wood and glass benches, which were supposed to be for gazing at the view / sun setting in the river etc. ?
The benches face the wrong way anyway – they face up the river across the road instead of down the river.
This area is now very crushed and cluttered compared to what it was beforehand. I think they have over done it on the number of kiosks, one or two maybe but four is over kill. Are there really enough booksellers in Dublin to take up the leases on them all?
I say move the daft seats or even remove the their backs so you can sit and look down the Liffey.
The seats are plonked right in the middle of the pavement, dividing it into two narrow strips.
It’s funny here, for once no one’s going to saying a word about the kiosks until they’re open, but really, with an awning or whatever out, and a big black hole opened up in their fronts, they’re not going to look much better.
And whatever about when they’re open, what about when they are closed, in the evenings, during early morning rush hour and probably for most of Sundays, they’ll look just like what they do now.
Passing today, they really are ugly, esp when seen from the Millenium Bridge, four big containers straddled across Grattan Bridge, like the bad old days in front of the Custom House.And that beautiful raking angle view of the bridge from just alongside it, taking in the ironwork, the massive iron brackets, the lamp standards and the stone arches looks horrible now.
But I do kind of agree with garethace about standards. Sometimes we just bang down something as a quick reaction to what somebody else said in a post, cos we’re in a rush out or something. But I guess it is worth taking the time to write something worth reading.
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Well, if you want a really good example of where they made the right decision where to put something, take a walk over by Dawson Street sometime.
When ABK did the new Arts Block there was no entrance from Trinity out onto Nassau Street. So ABK put one in.
But look where they put it though, not in front of Reads, not in front of the Setanta Centre or Kilkenny Design, not in front of Judge Roy Beans….. but right at the bottom of Dawson Street.
I know that ‘trinangle’ pedestrian island and crossing there is awkward at best, and creates congestion – but from a point of view of coming and going to Trinity, it is in the right place.
What they also did is interesting – they made a nice overflow space with a seat around a tree – that is just enough to take the chokepoint of pedestrians crossing, coming from Trinity, moving along Nassau St etc, and manage.
You can even ‘wait around there’ for your friend, to meet someone, etc, etc. You can have a smoke there or a drink of coke if you want.
Compare that to the new bridge on the Liffey – where when you get to the oposite side of the road, there is nowhere to really stand and relax, you are shoved literally by the flow of the crowd down the Quays in either direction.
The really nice thing about the board walks is being able to linger around there without bothering anyone.
I have always wondered why that footpath is so thin along the Trinity side of Naussau Street and South Leinster Street. It does not make sense when you think of the amount of people waiting to get various buses. I know that if it were to be widened it would mean less space for the buses and cars etc. However, cars are for some reason allowed to park outside the Kilkenny Design shop. Surely the path could be widened slightly?!
I agree with you about the Arts block entrance Garethace. It is a nice little space, so much movement, but as you pointed out, also a chance to sit beside the tree and relax.
Thanks
Phil
I have always wondered why that footpath is so thin along the Trinity side of Naussau Street and South Leinster Street. It does not make sense when you think of the amount of people waiting to get various buses.
You could say that about most of the footpaths in Dublin. Its about time the old predestrian reclaimed some street space.
Originally posted by phil
I have always wondered why that footpath is so thin along the Trinity side of Naussau Street and South Leinster Street. It does not make sense when you think of the amount of people waiting to get various buses. I know that if it were to be widened it would mean less space for the buses and cars etc. However, cars are for some reason allowed to park outside the Kilkenny Design shop. Surely the path could be widened slightly?!I agree with you about the Arts block entrance Garethace. It is a nice little space, so much movement, but as you pointed out, also a chance to sit beside the tree and relax.
Thanks
Phil
Simple answer to any of the above…. Dublin City Council just don’t have any eyes in their heads, otherwise all of this would be painfully obvious to them. It is a question of someone taking responsibility for it really – and clearly Dublin city council down through the years have not been able to do anything like that.
Temple Bar Properties/Architects were the only ones in my experience who showed enough assertiveness to go and do anything. Most people do not realise how little land/influence Temple Bar Properties could exert on that area – but what they did do, they did well I think.
This place is just waiting for another bus disaster.
At 5 in the evening, the pavement there is choked solid with people waiting for buses, so the many people rushing to Pearse and other places have to walk along the road, often weaving in and out of buses that are parked, moving and about to move.
It’s a joke.
Are we going to have to wait for another terrible Wellington Quay incident before something is done?I hadn’t actually thought of take Pearse Street station route, you are referring to, and yes, that is a really busy route at rush hour.
Up on the north side, the route from O’Connell Street area as far as Connolly station etc, isn’t at all as tricky.
I haven’t any experience of rushing down to the station on the Quay though.
Anyone?
The Lisney marketing spiel for the kiosks:
Address: Dublin City Centre Kiosks
(At Grattan Bridge)Status: To Let
Rent Per Annum: Details on Application.
Size (sq.m.): 12
Introduction: Tremendous opportunity to let superbly positioned street kiosks in the heart of Dublin city centre.Benefiting from an enormous volume of passing pedestrian and vehicular traffic
Suitable for a variety of users (Subject to Planning)
No Food Users
Location: The Street Kiosks are located on Grattan Bridge between Capel Street to the north and Parliament Street to the south in the heart of Dublin city centre. The kiosks, which have excellent profile overlooking the River Liffey, also benefit from the enormous volume of vehicular and pedestrian traffic, which cross the bridge on a daily basis. Grattan Bridge is a one way vehicular thoroughfare providing one of the main arterial routes from the north to the south of Dublin city centre.
Dublin city centre attracts a vast number of visitors each year, both national and international. The kiosks are located in the very hub of all the activity between the north and south of the city and adjacent Temple Bar and Dublin Castle. These Kiosks offer traders a truly unique retailing opportunity in the heart of Dublin city centre.Description: There are four stand alone street kiosks located on Grattan Bridge ready for immediate occupation. Each kiosk, which opens overlooking the River Liffey to the east, has under floor heating, electrical sockets, lighting and water and waste supply. They also have excellent display on the north, south and western elevations.
Accommodation: Kiosk 12 sq.m.
Lease Details: Licence Agreements
The kiosks are available on short-term yearly licence agreements.
Licence Fee
Details on application.That brochure bears absolutely no resemblence with what is currently on Grattan Bridge.
I am also wondering where all the additional lamposts have gone?
This really bears simularities to the new kid on the block thread, in which the rendering of the building in black and white looks really smart only for the exterior cladding to be changed with a really dodgy pastel tone. 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
The ‘no foods’ ruling seems quite restrictive – it should be no junk food.
Aside from a book/newspaper/magazine stall, I can’t think of too many things that would be successful.
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