Attic conversions – exempt development

@esterelle wrote:

I beg to differ with you there. An Bord Pleanala have ruled that the conversion of an attic is not development at all. Velux windows on the rear roofslope are with very few exceptions, exempted development. On the side of houses they are very often exempted development and sometimes they are exempted development on the front roofslope (32 Ballinclea Heights in Killiney being such a case under Referral 06DR2284) An attic in an existing dwelling forms part of that dwelling and works to convert the attic do not require planning permission as they are all internal.
From a Planning point of view no permission is required. How difficult can that be to understand. If you want to go outside planning and into the Building Control area that is something different but no planning permission is needed to carry out the works involved in converting an existing attic.

esterelle…..

i think you need to read the inspectors report on that file….

NOWHERE in the report does it state that the velux rooflights constitute exempted development.

see here: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/220205.htm

“I consider that as the six roof lights face towards the public road and are not overly obtrusive or otherwise at odds with the design of the building, they do not create cause for concern from a planning viewpoint.”

This was simply an application to retain… there was no suggestion that the applicant was arguing that the developement was exempt…

since you like to refer to that DLRcoco document….. have you seen this one???
http://www.dlrcoco.ie/planning/oftenasked.htm

look specifically at Q 4…
4.If I build an attic conversion do I need permission?

Normally no. However, if work involves dormer windows, permission is needed. If velux windows proposed to the rear, it is exempt. If velux windows proposed to the side/front elevation it is not exempt.

🙂

personally i would still argue that velux rooflights to the rear are technically NOT exempt… but common (mis)conception has made an assumption…

@esterelle wrote:

It does not matter what anyone personally believes or disbelieves. I suugest you guys and anybody else who is interested email An Bord Pleanala and request a copy of 28.RF.0794 (the Board Order) This states quite clearly that the conversion of an existing attic is not development (ie not regulatable under planning legislation) Part of the same order deals with velux windows and they were exempted development in that case as they nearly always are. What was interesting about this Order though was that it seperated the works involved in the conversion of an attic from the provision of velux windows. One not dvelopment, they other development but in this case as in most cases exempted development under S 4 (1) (h) of the principal act.
I must declare a vested interest here, I have been converting attics all over Leinster for the last 10 years. No planning permission required. Extra habitable space created, exempted development or rather not development at all. And I have yet to meet a case where a Velux window could not be provided under S 4 (1) (h) I have declared my interest and I sincerely hope that you guys will do the same and for goodness sake stop spinning the yarn that attic conversions need planning permission because they dont. My guess is that you chaps are in the business of drawing up plans for attic conversions. Just a guess.

And henno may I suugest that you read the Board Order in respect of 32 Ballinclea Heights. That will set you straight on whether or not these windows were exempted development or not. The Board Order is what is important not the Inspectors report. Their view on things may or may not be accepted by the Board.
This link will take you to the Order

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/RL2284.htm

@esterelle wrote:

It does not matter what anyone personally believes or disbelieves. I suugest you guys and anybody else who is interested email An Bord Pleanala and request a copy of 28.RF.0794 (the Board Order) This states quite clearly that the conversion of an existing attic is not development (ie not regulatable under planning legislation) Part of the same order deals with velux windows and they were exempted development in that case as they nearly always are. What was interesting about this Order though was that it seperated the works involved in the conversion of an attic from the provision of velux windows. One not dvelopment, they other development but in this case as in most cases exempted development under S 4 (1) (h) of the principal act.
I must declare a vested interest here, I have been converting attics all over Leinster for the last 10 years. No planning permission required. Extra habitable space created, exempted development or rather not development at all. And I have yet to meet a case where a Velux window could not be provided under S 4 (1) (h) I have declared my interest and I sincerely hope that you guys will do the same and for goodness sake stop spinning the yarn that attic conversions need planning permission because they dont. My guess is that you chaps are in the business of drawing up plans for attic conversions. Just a guess.

At least we know who’s to blame for the preponderance of the poxy things all over the place

How many of those conversions complied with Part B when you’d finished by the way?

@esterelle wrote:

Planning compliant in any event.

that is a disgraceful comment you low life cowboy

Just for your information I insist that everyone I know who buys a house insists on an Architect’s Compliance Cert. They’ll get you eventually

Don’t come on here looking for absolution.

@esterelle wrote:

I think everybody will accept that those who resort to name calling do so when they have lost an argument. I will have you know that I am no cowboy and my attics comply with all regulations. I apologise if your “planning application trade” has been affected.

I have never done an attic conversion and I would rather work in McDonalds than have to start. Or any other domestic application other than my own extension. I am a slave to commercialism

I haven’t lost any argument. I asked you whether, having told your “clients” that they don’t need planning permission that you also informed them of their obligations under the Building Regulations to protect their families from burning to death. You answered in a fashion that states “it’s got planning, what do I care”. The reason why I have not converted my own attic is not because I do not want to apply for planning – I did that for the extension anyway – but because I did not want to have to replace all the original doors in the house to protect my kid who would otherwise have wanted to sleep in the attic

“Your” attics might comply with whatever regs you think exist but, if you had a duty of care to your clients, your answer to me would have been a simple “all”

@esterelle wrote:

Well now at least you are fully informed of the current situation vis a vis planning for attic conversions. .

hahahahahahahaha:D

show’s over you win etc. let the readers decide

@esterelle wrote:

Self Certification has been in vogue for a very long time but there still remains ambiguity in this area.

Ambiguity? No. I think you’ve made your (professional?) position very clear and, by extension, have highlighted the downsides of allowing shysters to ‘self regulate’.

Still, you’re alright, Jack. :rolleyes:

@ctesiphon wrote:

Ambiguity? No. I think you’ve made your (professional?) position very clear and, by extension, have highlighted the downsides of allowing shysters to ‘self regulate’.

Still, you’re alright, Jack. :rolleyes:

You’ve just missed the whole point. We do not self regulate, rather we abide by the statutory regulation which is part of the law of the land. Perhaps you are referring to planning authorities to fail to inform would be applicants for planning that no planning is needed and return their fees.

@esterelle wrote:

Bren88, you appear not to have read all my comments but selected one which was part of an interchange with wearnicehats. If you read them all I think you will understand that all my attic conversions are not just compliant with planning laws but also satisfy the requirements of the Building Regs.

ok esterelle….

if you convert an attic of a two storey dwelling… what work do you need to do to be building reg compliant?

@esterelle wrote:

If you read the relevant Section 5 decision (Board Order), the reference number of which I quoted previously then you will find the answer to your question. It is set out there for you in black and white.

And Henno just for your information some attic conversions do not require compliance with the Building Regs (ie those where there is no fixed ladder or stairs and no structural work was involved in the conversion)
If you are any way familiar with the Building Regs then I suspect you will know precisely what works are required to make those attics which require compliance with the Regs so compliant. By the way this is not a quiz and I know that you are upset with having your mind changed on the matter of attics and planning permission.