Architectural heritage of Limerick

dc3, you have just raised my expectations on this book! Hope O’Mahony’s have ordered enough, so that I can pick up a copy on vacation soon. NIAH

Thanks Paul!

Limerick’s built heritage is brought to book (Limerick Leader)

Published Date: 21 June 2008 By David Hurley

OVER 700 of Limerick city’s most historic buildings have been included in a new book, which was launched by Environment Minister John Gormley at City Hall this week.

Photographs and critiques of the buildings all feature in the book which was produced by the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage on behalf of the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

The launch of the book followed the publication of a special commemorative poster in last week’s Limerick Leader.

“There are very fine churches which are a credit to their congregations.

“The two cathedrals, medieval St Mary’s and the Victorian Gothic Revival St John’s, are both buildings of national importance.

“There is Limerick’s Georgian core, Newtown Pery, a notable example of urban planning and design and an impressive Georgian new town – the elaborately carved doorcases and fanlights, hinting at the importance of the interiors,” said Minister Gormley.

The director of Limerick Civic Trust, Denis Leonard, welcomed the publication of the book.

“It is a great looking book. It is very attractive and is a great record of the best of Limerick architecture.

“It shows what is good all around the city. I am very enthused about it,” he said.

At the launch, Limerick City Council senior planner Dick Tobin revealed that some of the buildings featured had collapsed since they were photographed almost two years ago.

“Since the record has been made, I think three of these buildings have fallen down.

“It underlines the difficulty of preserving buildings that are 300 years old.

“I think some of them were never designed to last this long and it is a continuing struggle to ensure there is sufficient cash available to maintain the buildings and to keep them in useful occupation,” he said.

Minister Gormley expressed his dissappointment at the collapse of the buildings.

“It is always regrettable when you see that kind of dereliction and that is why it is so important that we concentrate on conservation and recognise its importance.

“But I don’t want this book to be simply a record, I want to have a living heritage that we can see and appreciate,” he stressed.

Minister launches Architectural Heritage Survey of Limerick (Department of Environment)
18/06/08

The Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Mr John Gormley, T.D. to-day (17th June) launched his Department’s Architectural Heritage Survey of Limerick City and the associated book, An Introduction to the Architectural Heritage of Limerick City. This was the eighteenth survey conducted by the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage.

Speaking in City Hall, the Minister made reference to some highlights in terms of architectural heritage which the City boasts: “There are very fine churches which are a credit to their congregations. The two cathedrals, medieval St Mary’s – the oldest building in the city still in its original use – and the Victorian Gothic Revival, St John’s, are both buildings of national importance. There is Limerick’s Georgian core, Newtown Pery, a notable example of urban planning and design and an impressive Georgian new town – the elaborately carved doorcases and fanlights, hinting at the importance of the interiors.”

The Minister made reference to some examples in the book of best practice in Architecture, both in terms of the sensitive adaptation of heritage buildings for new uses and of more modern architecture “the former corn store at the junction of Shannon Street and Henry Street, has been successfully converted into apartments. The award winning Shannon Rowing Club, on Sarsfield Bridge, is a superb example of a new building type developed for new functions – in this case for leisure – in the early twentieth century.”

As the surveys are published, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, formally recommends to the planning authority that structures identified as of Regional importance or higher be included in the city or county’s Records of Protected Structures (RPS). The RPS is the record which planning authorities are obliged to maintain under the Planning and Development Act 2000 which confers certain legal protections on such structures. A total of 732 structures in the survey of Limerick City are rated as being of Regional or higher importance.

Structures on the RPS can qualify for grant assistance for conservation works and the Minister alluded to this in his address. “ In 2008, I have allocated funding of almost €25 Million to support built heritage projects throughout the country. This provision represents a record increase of 42% on the amount spent in 2007.

Funding of €100,000 has been allocated by my Department to Limerick City Council and €257,000 to Limerick County Council this year to support the conservation of protected structures. These amounts represent a significant increase on the 2007 allocations. I am also pleased to announce here today that St. Mary’s Cathedral, Limerick, will receive a grant of €250,000 for conservation works under the Significant Places of Public Worship initiative administered by the Heritage Council.

The Architectural Heritage Survey of Limerick City and the associated book, An Introduction to the Architectural Heritage of Limerick City.

The book itself self, been an introduction with 120 pages covers very well the city’s architecture and retails at just €12 is very good value for money.

Obviously the over 700 of Limerick city’s most historic buildings have been not been included in the new book as incorrectly written by the Limerick Leader Article above. The author probably meant the on-line Survey version.

Buildings of Ireland (Survey Highlights)

• Bridges
• Villa Architecture
• Uniform Victorian/Edwardian Terraces
• Ecclesiastical Architecture
• Public Monuments

I found the navigation a bit confusing, to get all 731 results per advanced search, just leave the selection parameters empty and submit.

50 & 51 Catherine Street

@GrahamH wrote:

So am I right in gathering that these are currently only proposed Protected Structures?!

See NIAH Description ~ Appraisal for nos. 50 & 51.

@Tuborg wrote:

I remember seeing some form of enforcement notice attached to the fencing last summer, around the time 1 or 2 bricks had come loose! :rolleyes:

I see what you mean. Just hope they would speed up the need to produce the “Further Information” for the buildings sake.

5 Little Gerald Griffin Street

@gunter wrote:

As cute as they are, I have to say they’re not as cute as this little number on Little Gerald Griffin Street.

A personal sized stone warehouse! You don’t see that everyday, and so what if the front leans out a bit, that just means there’s more elbow room inside on the upper floors.

Instinctively people here tend to walk on the opposite side of the street.;)

NIAH Description ~ Appraisal of 5 Little Gerald Griffin Street

End-of-terrace three-bay three-storey former warehouse, built c. 1800, with roof set behind tall parapet of cut limestone blocks. Squared limestone walls with cut limestone quoins to front and side elevations. Rendered section to the ground floor where loading entrance may have existed. Segmental-headed windows, many blocked up, with brick surrounds. Panelled timber doors with timber surrounds. Red brick chimney stack. Glazed timber modern door set into side elevation.

The survival of this former corn warehouse is important in an area that is under threat from development. The good quality stone work and the retention of some of the original timber doors adds to the architectural merit of the building.

I would say that these buildings are under a greater threat from neglect and decay than from development. The next post on Boru House underlines this neglect very much.

Mayor of Limerick calls to protect home of Kate O’Brien ~ Boru House (Limerick Leader)

Published Date: 03 February 2009 By Anne Sheridan

MAYOR of Limerick John Gilligan has lent his support to calls to protect Boru House – the home of the late writer Kate O’Brien – in advance of the upcoming literary festival held in her honour.

The Mulgrave Street property has been up for sale for a number of years with a price-tag of €1.4m but the mayor believes the slump in property prices may allow the Council to buy the house.

“Property prices are falling, we have to recognise that, and if we’re going buying property, now is the time to do it. We will soon be short of a library in the city (due to the Opera Centre development) and there is a huge courtyard behind Boru House suitable for development which could fit in and be sympathetic to the old house,” said the mayor.

He said he is “very saddened to see the condition of Kate O’Brien’s house”, which he described as one of the most historic houses in Limerick.

“It would be absolutely dreadful if it deteriorated any further and I’d love to see it being brought back to full use, not just as a monument to Kate but to preserve one of the better buildings in the city,” he said.

The massive 36,023 sq ft property on Mulgrave Street, which is being sold by de Courcy estate agents, includes seven bedrooms and four additional rooms in the attic. The property is owned by the Lloyd family, who previously hoped to secure more than the €1.4 million prior to the property slump.

Auctioneer John de Courcy said a number of people have visited the property in recent months and any offers would be put to the family for consideration.

The annual Kate O’Brien weekend will run from February 27 to March 1 this year and will feature readings from a host of influential literary figures in the city’s Circuit Court building at Merchant’s Quay.

This year’s theme is to celebrate Irish writing in honour of the famous Limerick author, and participating writers include John Banville, Lia Mills, Dermot Bolger and Glenn Patterson.

“This year the committee members really made a special effort to get a good calibre of writer to celebrate the weekend,” said Sheila Deegan, arts officer with Limerick City Council.

A book entitled Faithful Companions, featuring the people who have celebrated the weekend over the last quarter of a century, will be published in advance of the weekend and is edited by local writer and broadcaster Mary Coll.

For an updated list of all events log on to http://www.kobweekend.com

Heritage been lost here through vandalism and poor passive property management.

From what I heard from home the elderly owners had passed away and their house came on the market. The house was in top shape.

The images below highlights how an unused house can in such a short period of time go from an intact one into a state of dereliction.

In my opinion the owners of this NIAH protected house are partly responsible for passively letting youths a free hand to use it as a drinking den, resulting in a fire.:mad:

Image DerHur

See NIAH Description ~ Appraisal

While it’s a nice building, and the tie-in with an author’s house would be a nice idea, this is too far away from the city centre to house the library. Why can’t they just buy the Franciscan church and put it in there?

Its pretty remarkable that the little stone warehouse is still standing and that it also managed to escape the encroachment of those horrible 1990s apartments! Although it wont be with us for much longer if someone dosent show some interest in hauling it back from the brink!

As for Boru House, theres no doubt that it should be acquired by the City Council and promptly handed over to Limerick Civic Trust, who have consistently shown themselves to be a safe pair of hands in terms of conservation projects. With a little imagination it could be turned into a museum or literary centre of some description. Although in the current climate its probably unlikely that the council or even the State would commit any funds to a possible purchase.:(

On a more positive note. The former georgian townhouse at 8 Cecil Street that was on the verge of collapsing last summer, has now been repaired. Most of the scaffolding came down last week, with only the hoarding surrounding the ground floor remaining. Its timber sash windows have been repaired/replaced and what looks like a 3 storey extension has been constructed to the rear.

Previous Post

This house on Denmark Street (possibly no. 36?) could use a bit of tlc.

Possibly the last full set of flush windows in the city?

I suspect that the Polish shop to the right (no. 35?) may always have been a seperate house, but maybe not, either way both were clearly built together and the whole terrace is important.

I’d hate to see new owners slap in pvc windows, or worse a knock-it-down planning application!

Apologies for some low-grade photography.

also low grade photos but does anyone have any info on this building…the red brick on the left? Shame to see it like this. Its one i really like every time I pass and kind of reminds me of some of the images in the Dutch Billy thread…

@gunter wrote:

This house on Denmark Street (possibly no. 36?) could use a bit of tlc.

Possibly the last full set of flush windows in the city?

I suspect that the Polish shop to the right (no. 35?) may always have been a seperate house, but maybe not, either way both were clearly built together and the whole terrace is important.

I’d hate to see new owners slap in pvc windows, or worse a knock-it-down planning application!

Apologies for some low-grade photography.

34 Denmark Street

Gunter you certainly have an eye for the old ones!

Again the NIAH have listed it and it is some 250 years old and sadly looking every day of it! Again it seems to be going faster down hill since the NIAH recently recorded it.

@vkid wrote:

also low grade photos but does anyone have any info on this building…the red brick on the left? Shame to see it like this. Its one i really like every time I pass and kind of reminds me of some of the images in the Dutch Billy thread…

Vkid, I found nothing of this building on a NIAH search for Thomas Street. I suppose since Thomas Street is part of the Newtownpery Georgian Grid, would probably mean that it is not an original “Dutch Billy”. Maybe some of the Dutch Billy cracks might give us a few clues?

@gunter wrote:

This house on Denmark Street (possibly no. 36?) could use a bit of tlc.

Possibly the last full set of flush windows in the city?

I suspect that the Polish shop to the right (no. 35?) may always have been a seperate house, but maybe not, either way both were clearly built together and the whole terrace is important.

I’d hate to see new owners slap in pvc windows, or worse a knock-it-down planning application!

Gunter, that example from Denmark Street just further illustrates the plight of Limerick’s historical building stock.:(

I had a bit of a stare at it the other day. To say its in a perilous condition would be a serious understatement, much of the brickwork on the top 2 floors has started to sag and bulge, which cant be good! I realise they may be difficult to identify but surely the City Council can force the owners to carry out some repair works, in the interest of public safety at least!

I guess those “For Sale” signs mean we’ll surely see an attempt at some kind of redevelopment when the market improves again!

It would be a real shame to lose this building, especially considering its one of the last remaining originals on a street thats been almost entirely redeveloped over the last 20 years!

Just looking at that streetscape again, there is a good degree of similarity between 34/35 and the yellow painted rendered house beyond (no. 33, I guess). The brickwork is continuous across the adjoining facades with no vertical joint until we reach no. 36 on this side. That would suggest that no. 35 (the ‘Taste of Europe’ shop) may have originally been the carriage arch to no. 34, mirroring the arrangement at no. 33 (the yellow building). The continuous brickwork would obviously also imply that both, substantial, (now) three bay, structures were built at the same time.

The level change on the upper floors from no. 33 to no. 34/5 might originally have been reflected at ground level also where the street may originally have sloped more steeply in the direction of the river, before the creation of Rutland Street / Patrick Street necessitated the end of the street to be levelled up. Total speculation I know, but you just sense that these houses would respond to a bit of delving into.

On that subject, I noticed from the Google Earth views that there’s a splendid vantage point in the form of a multi-storey car park directly opposite these houses, maybe Tuborg could be persuaded to go down that way again and take some close-ups of the roof structures and that facade brickwork again, just to be sure there isn’t a joint close to the junction with the render 😉

I find nothing of interest in these buildings they look like they were slapped up

@Pot Noodle wrote:

I find nothing of interest in these buildings they look like they were slapped up

Thanks for that valuable and well considered contribution!:rolleyes:

@gunter wrote:

On that subject, I noticed from the Google Earth views that there’s a splendid vantage point in the form of a multi-storey car park directly opposite these houses, maybe Tuborg could be persuaded to go down that way again and take some close-ups of the roof structures and that facade brickwork again, just to be sure there isn’t a joint close to the junction with the render 😉

If I get the chance gunter, I’ll be going in minus the car. The last time I parked there, some idiot in a jeep destroyed the side of it reversing into a space!:mad:

Live Maps gives a decent view of those buildings aswell. It would appear that both no. 33 & 34 were extended in the not too distant past, probably during the 90s.

@Tuborg wrote:

On a more positive note. The former georgian townhouse at 8 Cecil Street that was on the verge of collapsing last summer, has now been repaired. Most of the scaffolding came down last week, with only the hoarding surrounding the ground floor remaining. Its timber sash windows have been replaced and what looks like a 3 storey extension has been constructed to the rear.

Previous Post

Photo taken last week.

Well there’s no use having ONE building with timber sash windows in a terrace full of pvc. The situation with pvc windows in Georgian Limerick is shameful. Walking around Limerick, it’s impossible not to be struck by how utterly beautiful the city could be if they treated Georgian terraces with some respect. Even if they just put in the correct windows and put proper paving down it would make a world of difference.

@Pot Noodle wrote:

I find nothing of interest in these buildings they look like they were slapped up

Flush windows Pot!

. . . . doesn’t get much more exciting than this 🙂

There’s another example at the corner of William Street and Little Catherine Street, but here the original glazing bars haven’t survived.

The presence of several examples of pre-standard Georgian features on houses dotted around the northern end of New Town Perry raises the question of just how much of Georgian Limerick, in reality, was ‘planned new town’ and how much could be characterised as organic growth.

The 1769 map gives a vision of the New Town Perry enterprise as a tight grid of streets with a couple of circuses thrown in for relief, but it leaves vague the development of the lands on the east side of Rutland St./Patrick St, the are around Ellen Street and Denmark St.

It’s a bit difficult to be sure, but it looks like the northernmost cross street of New Town Perry, as illustrated, would equate to William Street, is that the general view?

That’s what it looked like to me gunter until I tried lining up the maps. The old map is remarkably accurate in terms of geometry for the extent of the town at the time.
[ATTACH]9499[/ATTACH]
Stuff in the “planned” bit doesn’t line up as well but certain features are easily discerned like the distinctive triangle at Patrick St. It looks like the town was already built up around this area.

Anyway, it looks to me like William St. is the second cross street rather than the first which (somewhat badly) lines closer to Denmark St.

@jimg wrote:

. . . . it looks to me like William St. is the second cross street rather than the first which (somewhat badly) lines closer to Denmark St.

Am about 3/4 convinced jimg, the extra out-turn on the Arthurs Quay triangle is making it hard to nail down an anchor at the west end, and the junction with the pre-existing street pattern at the east end could equally be interpreted either way. The fact that the second street is shown broader and, in this regard, relates better to the reality as built, probably just about clinches it, right enough. We’ll have to get our hands on some higher resolution images!

What I was going to try to do was put some markers on locations (CologneMike style) where houses with non-standard Georgian features are found, just to see if we could put a reliable boundary on the Dutch Billy thing and see if there was a zone of transitional Georgian houses in Limerick, or just a headlong plunge into Georgianna.

It would have been handy it Limerick could have just embraced the corner fireplace, like everyone else :rolleyes:

The 1769 map again showing the aspiration to construct ‘New Town Perry’ and a map from circa 1820s showing what was carried out (with still some aspirational stuff south of the Crescent and in the area of ‘The New Square’.

@Pot Noodle wrote:

I find nothing of interest in these buildings they look like they were slapped up

These are definitely in a very sad state of affairs but if only these walls could talk………..

One possible explanation for the crooked brick-boundary-line between the house “Taste of Europe” and its neighbour to the right, was the result of a gunpowder explosion at Richardson’s Gunsmith Warehouse (corner George Street / Denmark Street).

See shaded buildings on map from Limerick Museum.

The Limerick Leader published an article about it recently.

Gunpowder Explosion

ON THE 3rd January, 1837, a catastrophe of a most lamentable character occurred in Limerick by an explosion of gunpowder in the premises of one William Richardson, a gun maker and vendor of gunpowder, No. 1 George Street. Eleven persons were killed by this explosion – viz., Margaret McMahon, John McMahon, Bridget O’Donoghue, John O’Brien, Patrick Doolan, Mary Barry, John Enright, Bridget Doolan, John McMahon and Michael O’Neill, a watchman.(Though eleven were mentioned as being killed only ten people were named in the article.)

Interestingly on the linked map above, at the entrance of Arthur’s Quay, there is a sketch of where a front beam of Richardson’s House that killed Dr. Hanly / Dr. Healy? Could he be the eleventh person?

The cause of the catastrophe could never be clearly ascertained, as the only person in the part of the house where the gunpowder lay was blown up and his body torn to pieces.

The terrific details of this dreadful affair cause a shudder of horror whenever they are brought to memory, while the miraculous escape which some respectable families had from being involved in the worst consequences of the explosion is referred to the special agency of Providence.

Every effort was made by the Mayor and magistrates to mitigate the sufferings of the survivors. A deputation laid the matter before the Lord Lieutenant, who gave his active sympathies, and a public subscription was raised to which everyone contributed.

There were four persons under the roof at the time, three of whom were killed, while a young man named Jeskey, an apprentice, escaped with his life, though he had been blown to a great height and came down senseless in the street at a considerable distance.

At the house No. 2 George Street, the widow of Michael Ryan, one of the most extensive and esteemed merchants in the city, resided with her family, two sons, a daughter and sister-in-law.

They were all in bed, being instantly stunned, after lying unconscious under the ruins for an house. The first recital or perception that Mrs. Ryan remembered was hearing her daughter, Barbara, a child of eight years old, who slept with her, crying, “Mamma, where are you?”

They were at the time buried in the debris. A long and fruitless search had been made for them. It was suggested they had gone to the country.

Further exertions were about being relinquished when the almost inaudible cries of the child were heard under the ruins. Efforts were again made and the child was heard to cry to “take care of Mamma,” whose collar-bone had been broken, their persons having been overwhelmed in rubbish between the shop and the underground apartment, yet supported by two doors having come together in their fall so as to form an arch over them.

The legs and feet, however, were so crushed that they could not change their position. One of the sons, William, was blown up in the air on the mattress on which he was sleeping and came down in the street with it blazing around him, he asleep all the while. He sustained no injury.

The elder brother was not blown up but the corner of the floor whereupon his bed stood could be seen for days after from the street, like a shelf without support, attached to the tottering wall.

Mrs. Catherine Ryan, sister-in-law of Mrs. Ryan, had no perception of anything having happened until the next morning when she found herself in a public-house in Arthur’s Quay, having been blown out, so stunned as to be senseless, buried under a heap of rubbish, and lying for an hour in the street with a beam of timber over her.

A servant, who slept in the room next to Mrs. Catherine Ryan, the sister-in-law of Mrs. Ryan, was blown into the hall of the house No. 3, belonging to Mr. Wm. Wilson. Mr. Ellard, who resided near the corner of Denmark Street, opposite Richardson’s was lifted off the ground and with a whirling motion dashed across the street and buried under a heap of rubbish, from which he was dug out. His respectable family had a very narrow escape as had also the family of Mr. Thomas Tracy, who lived at No. 13, of Mr. J. Hallowell, No. 10, and Mr. J. Burke, No. 18, etc., etc.

The gas throughout the city was on this occasion extinguished and windows were broken on the north Strand, at the opposite side of the Shannon. The verdict of the coroner’s jury throws blame on the incautious manner in which Richardson had exposed the gunpowder for sale.

Of Mrs. Ryan’s two sons, Edmond and William, Edmond was Mayor of Limerick in 1846 and in 1865 RM of Middleton, Co. Cork, and William was drowned.

@gunter wrote:

The 1769 map gives a vision of the New Town Perry enterprise as a tight grid of streets with a couple of circuses thrown in for relief, but it leaves vague the development of the lands on the east side of Rutland St./Patrick St, the are around Ellen Street and Denmark St.

It’s a bit difficult to be sure, but it looks like the northernmost cross street of New Town Perry, as illustrated, would equate to William Street, is that the general view?

Gunter, is that map part of Davis Dukart’s plan for Newtown Pery?

I’d tend to agree with jimg that the 2nd last cross street more than likely equates to William Street.

If indeed it is William Street, then obviously the next street which leads to the suggested public square is Thomas Street. This would line up with a theory I read about a couple of years ago in an old journal article. Seemingly there was an attempt to develop a large(ish) square in the general area of what is now the Bedford Row/Thomas Street axis and possibly stretching up as far as the Roches Street/Shannon Street junction.

The two other squares on that proposal vaguely correspond to The Crescent and Pery Square, although the positioning is a bit off. Of course Pery Square was never actually completed to its planned dimensions either.

No. 1 Pery Square Hotel & Spa

No. 1 Pery Square has been fully restored with all its original architectural features expertly reinstated in precise detail. The décor and some furnishings are also of the Georgian era.

The images below are from their website gallery. I downsized them for the forum and therefore quality has suffered a bit. The railings it seems have now been finished as the images appear to be from late last year. What is the situation with the first floor ornate balcony? The icing on the cake would be if the ESB removed those hanging cables.

It looks very well and compliments the Limerick Civic Trust “Georgian House & Garden” next door. Any body with more up to date photos?

Previous posts August 2008, October 2007.

Landmark Church Building Gets €500,000 Makeover (Limerick Post)

Fundraising target well underway

A Church that has a very special relevance for many Limerick people, since it was built on O’Connell Avenue in 1904, is St Joseph’s, which has just launched its fundraising brochure – Preserving Our Place for Future Generations, and drive for a comprehensive restoration of the landmark building.

Spearheaded by Father Tom Mangan, administrator of St. Joseph’s Parish, conservation work commenced last year to correct weather damage to the structure and generally refurbish the church, which is Italian in design and built of limerick limestone.

As a protected structure, work will involve specific guidelines from the city conservation authorities, at in excess of €500,000 – so far over €221,000 has been raised thanks to the work of our parishioners and fundraising groups over the last two years.

Images below . . . . Fergal Clohessy, DerHur and Limerick Museum

History Of St. Joseph’s Church

St Joseph’s parish was founded in 1973 when it was split from St. Michael’s Parish.

St Joseph’s church was built in 1904. It was originally used as a chapel of ease for St Michael’s parish church. At the turn of the century, it was decided to build a new church to accommodate the growth of St Michael’s parish. The architect of the church was Mr W E Corbett and the builders were John Ryan & Sons. Mr Byrnes gave the site for the church.

According to the original plan, the church would be built in two stages. The second stage was to begin when the money had been raised to finish the church. However, when the first stage was completed, the church did not look aesthetically pleasing and it was decided to borrow the remaining money to finish the church.

The church has acquired the nickname ‘the church of the spite’ 😉 because it is situated across the road from the Jesuits’ Church of the Sacred Heart. At the time of the building of St Joseph’s, the then bishop, Bishop O’Dwyer objected to the Jesuits using a two-tier system for worshippers. The wealthy people sat at the front of the church while the ordinary people sat at the back. Despite attempts from Bishop O’Dwyer, the Jesuits refused to change this system and it was decided that a new church was needed which would not have this practice of separation.

For more information log on to link

Barrington’s Hospital

Feeney McMahon Architects have a proposal on their web site to extend the building vertically and also to create a new entrance wing. The original roof was taken down around 1933 and a modern flat one replaced it. Which was a pity, especially as the main five-bay building had a nice ornamental top (three rounded windows of an attic?). It would be amazing if they could reinstate that feature.

Although the hospital was erected in 1829, it was only completed in 2004 by the west wing extension (Healy & Partner Architects). Imagine Architect Frederick Darley would have had to wait 175 years to see his original plan finished.:)

Barrington’s Hospital ~ History Snippets

NIAH description / appraisal and images

History of Barrington’s Hospital (Limerick Leader)

The Origins and Early Years of Barrington’s Hospital (Limerick City Library)

Refurbished Gas Lanterns (1985)

Images below Limerick City Museum

Mont de Piété

Mark Tierney described the Mont de Piété building in the Old Limerick Journal as being very picturesque, in classical style, on the lines of the temple of Vesta, with a cupola, pillars, railings and small grass enclosure.

He wrote of Mathew Barrington, whose family built Barrington Hospital, had taken a dislike to the growth of pawnbrokers in the city. He did his own piece of detective work by pawning articles at 25 different pawnbrokers on the 15th of Oct. 1836 and again on the 22nd. On hand of the ticket numbers he could estimate their dealings, i.e. each ticket charge was 1d each plus the exorbitant interest rates of 50%.

This exploitation especially of the poor, motivated the need for a charitable pawn office i.e. Mont de Piété. Unfortunately this enterprise failed and the building even became a liability for the hospital. It was later leased for a spell as a police barracks and remained unused in the 1880s. It was demolished in 1892. What a pity.

Limerick Museum ~ Limerick Journal ~ Mont de Piété

Wikipedia ~ Mont de Piété

The Monte de Piete has lasted a lot longer than 1892 ,the Ionic columns of the colunade were bought by a wealthy New York merchant to adorn his mansion, also the rear wall of the Monte de Piete building facing Mary St. survived until 2006, unknown and unloved prior to redevelopment of the site.The accompanying pictures are from an article from the North Munster Antiquarian Journal 2007 detailing the excavation of the site which illustrate that a 30m length of 19th century wall belonging to the rear of the Monte de Piete was recorded prior to its destruction. I walked past it 100 times not knowing its significance.

Roche’s Hanging Gardens

The recent published Irish Historic Towns Atlas on Limerick reveals how large these gardens once were. 😎 There are only two arches of this single-story store remaining. It’s been redeveloped with the old Post Office sorting buildings and it seems a little garden would reappear on it. Alas the project has stalled. See link.

Building of Limerick ~Judith Hill

City park and gardens

. . . . . . . That there was a lack of public gardens was not quite true, or was only recently true. Roche’s Hanging Gardens and Billy Carr’s garden were both celebrated and Roche’s garden at least seems to have been used by inhabitants and visitors.

It is illustrated in Fitzgerald and M’Gregor’s book on the city showing the strolling citizens and reported by O’Dowd as ‘a source of interest to strangers visiting the city’. The hanging gardens were unique, the product of a personal vision, or obsession. William Roche, the banker, was responsible.

He built a single-storey store or bonding house facing Henry Street (behind his bank on Georges Street) which he rented to the government and on the roof he constructed the gardens in a series of terraces. Exotic fruits and vegetables were grown under glass sustained by lead lined irrigation channels which carried excess water to the city sewers.

Only the brick and stone arches of the bonding stores, now incorporated into the post office buildings, remain today.

Limerick Journal ~ Jim Kemmy

See pdf.

In 1808 William Roche built large stores which covered more than an acre of land from the rear of the bank to Henry
Street. On the roof of these stores he constructed his own private gardens.

The plan involved the building of the stores under a Series of arches ranging from 25 to 40 feet high. On top of these arches elevated terraced or “hanging” gardens were created and the whole structure was crowned with classical statues.

These works cost f 15,000 to complete but Roche’s speculation was not the folly some people believed it to be. The
government rented the stores at a “fine” of f 10,000 and a rent of £300 a year.

The top terraces contained hot houses, conservatories, glass houses, and flues to heat them. Here was grown grapes,
pineapples, peaches, and oranges. The highest point was seventy feet above street level and commanded an impressive view of the Shannon.

On the middle tier were grown vegetables and hardy fruit trees; on the bottom, flowers. A section of about eighty feet
square was devoted to melons and cucumbers. Flights of steps led from one elevation to another.

The depth of earth on the gardens averaged about five feet, and the stores underneath were protected from dampness by flags cemented together and by an ingenious network of lead channels, which carried excess moisture through perpendicular pipes concealed in the arches and from the city by horizontal outlets to the main sewers under the street.

By the blocking of upright tubes !in dry weather, water was retained and conveyed into the various channels under the
garden surface. Manure was brought up from the ground by mechanical means. It was little wonder that the exotic gardens, with these elaborate heating and watering arrangements, were, to quote James Dowd, “long a source of interest to strangers visiting the city”.

Pity looking at that map how limerick had such a great layout that’s lost completely in the part of town!

@brix26 wrote:

Pity looking at that map how limerick had such a great layout that’s lost completely in the part of town!

Though the grid street pattern is still very much retained, it’s their retail use on lower O’Connell Street (Map George Street) where the layout of these buildings have been radically changed. It seems the Georgian buildings with a flight of steps leading up to the front door have survived the best.

Take the last four buildings from the map above, exactly these four had no steps to their entrance thus making them attractive for retail use. Alas they are either replaced by a contemporary building or they get a shocking cheap purple facade or a large bill board mounted on to its side.

The end building there no longer has the girders around it, although I’m not entirely sure that the end wall is in fact vertical. The new building is pretty ugly but at least doesn’t stand out too much (cream coloured like the end building and same height). It’s been vacant ever since it was finished – don’t see it being filled soon.

I think where one could genuinely despair is O’Connell Street between Brown Thomas and Arthur’s Quay, plus Patrick Street (all the more with probably losing much of the remaining old buildings to a jumped up Arthur’s Quay Mark II or even possibly nothing at all). Also Sarsfield Street, Liddy St., etc. Cruises street if you ask me is far more depressing than the rather shabby adjacent William Street. William Street has actually had improvement in a number of buildings (EBS, solicitors near Chapel Lane, occupancy of Williamscourt by Guineys, occupancy of some shop units further up by fashion outlets). Streetscape remodelling would do wonders for this street – it is *very* busy with shoppers regardless of the overall run down look or low quality shops.

As regards the city centre, I think the future is more east/southwards of the previous focus around those areas I mentioned. More future on William St., Thomas St., Catherine St., adjoining lanes, Bedford Row, O’Connell St further up, Roches St. Many of the specialised services/retailers people go to the city centre for are located on these streets.

I think all that it will do if the Opera Centre does eventually go ahead is pull business out of that surviving *genuine* city centre and into the wasteland I have mentioned, which will not offer a good city centre experience just with the advent of the Opera Centre. And the Opera Centre will not compete as a shopping mall with out of city locations. City shopping needs to focus on a city centre, not city shopping malls.

Saw this last week and thought I would take a photo or two for this site. It’s a building at the top of William Street in Limerick, on the corner with Wickham Street. The tenant (“Baker’s Basket”) recently closed and the shop front rather than being left to rot was replaced with a basic new wooden one. I spotted from a passing bus a spot not covered by the new shopfront (but was by the old one) that had a date of 1789. Here is a close-up (admittedly cameraphone):

It reads:
William
Street June, 2?
AD 1789

I don’t think much is missing on the broken right edge except maybe a second digit on the date. Here’s the front view of the building, sorry it’s not great – it’s a bit obtrusive taking photos on a busy street, so it was on-the-fly!

The building looks especially ugly in grey pebble-dash with the cheap windows. I should have grabbed a photo of the side of the building, which is on Wickham Street. There are windows on this side too (shopfront on ground, more windows on 1st/2nd floors) and the roof profile is clearly visible on the gable. At the front it seems a bit odd that the windows are spaced over to the right (extra space on left hand side, even a bit more than shown here as you can see from the chopped streetname plate).

Anyway, probably not particularly interesting, but just a detail I thought I should record here!

@KeepAnEyeOnBob wrote:

Saw this last week and thought I would take a photo or two for this site. It’s a building at the top of William Street in Limerick, on the corner with Wickham Street.

It reads:
William
Street June, 2?
AD 1789

Newtown Pery Map 1787 ~ John Ferrar (larger image)

Amazing what old buildings reveal. There is probably one for Wickham Street hidden under the plaster on the other side too.

Looking at the map, William Street was simply just called the new road two years before hand. Wickham Street, High Street and even the round house were built before 1787.

Granary Building ~ 53 Thomas Street (NIAH)

Anybody know more about this design proposal from below?

Contemporary Arts Center ~ Design Proposal (Helena Michel and Adam Michel)

See links 1, 2, 3.

Just received an e-mail from the Thomond Archaeological and Historical Society regarding a forthcoming symposium on the future of the architectural heritage of Limerick city, details below. Hope it is well attended as it should be rather interesting.

Building Visions: A Symposium on Strategies for Preserving Limerick’s Heritage.

The History Society at Mary Immaculate College will host a symposium on November 25th entitled, Building Visions: A Symposium on Strategies for Preserving Limerick’s Heritage.

Speaking at what promises to be a most interesting event will be Dr. Hugh Maguire, Director, The Hunt Museum, Professor Merit Bulchoz of the School of Architecture UL and Mr Richard Tobin, Senior Planner, Limerick City Council (retd.). In addition there will be two short presentations regarding ongoing historical projects in the city followed by an open discussion between attendees, chaired by Dr Matthew Potter.

The Symposium, which is being funded by MISU and the History Department at MIC, will run from 9.30 – 16.00 on November 25th. Attendance is FREE but you need to register on the day – Registration begins at 9.15am.
Location Room SG1 in Summerville House [use Ashbourne Avenue entrance].
Further information available from limericksymposium2011@gmail.com

Exploring Georgian Limerick ~ Pat Dargan

This guide provides an overview of Georgian Limerick, its beginnings and emergence, its Baroque planning, its open spaces and classically inspired architecture. The individuals responsible for the developments are introduced, together with the forces that motivated them and the ideas and influences that inspired and guided them. What emerges is a picture of Limerick that may be new to many people, visitors and locals alike.

The History Press ISBN: 9781845887360

New book out next month.

The old Golden Vale factory is up for sale. 2.57 hectares is a good chunk of land so close to the CBD. I wonder would it be possible to convert the stone factory to apartments? I think it would be a great place for large family apartments with good access to the Condell Rd. and the wet lands just across the road.
http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/local-news/4533-landmark-site-put-up-for-sale.html
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=LI&regno=21512053

This site and old building would make a fabulous museum for Limerick City, think Tate Modern in London.

@lukejr wrote:

This site and old building would make a fabulous museum for Limerick City, think Tate Modern in London.

The Tate Modern actually contains many works of art that people want to see, which is I fear where your idea falls down. Limerick already has one good museum and one bullshit art gallery. It should focus on getting the basics right, like paving stones on its main street and decent preservation of its buildings.

Limerick needs a comprehensive plan that fixes the basics, but also plans something grand for the future, an iconic building to attract visitors and improve the brand of the city.

Look at what the Guggenheim Museum did for Bilbao, prior to the museum the city was run down with 25% unemployment. Now the museum alone gets 82,580 visitors per month – 1 million per year. King John’s Castle gets only 30,000 visitors per year, less than one game at Thomond Park.

The Guggenheim museum and works (including a metro) and major city face lift cost €200 million. But it generates an extra 740,904 yearly overnight stays in hotels, at €69 a night that’s €52 million in revenue per year just for hotel rooms. It would be an expensive outlay for the city, but it would benefit from it for years to come.

In my opinion there is no better way to preserve old buildings than to revitalise the city, and an international anchor museum or art gallery would be a an excellent start. Bilbao is a larger city than Limerick, so too is Manchester with their Imperial War Museum, or London with the Tate Modern, but we need to look at what other cities are doing. When a tourist comes to Limerick for a visit, how will they spend their day?

Your final question

When a tourist comes to Limerick for a visit, how will they spend their day?

is a good one, but the Guggenheim in Bilbao is not universally considered to be a good investment.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/guggenheim-bilbao-and-‘hot-banana’

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/travel/23bilbao.html?pagewanted=all

More to the point, if the hoteliers of Limerick want an extra €52 million in revenue, let them pay for the proposed museum or gallery. I can’t imagine what could be used to fill it — or where the money would come from. Cheap, low-cost attractions may allow a hundred flowers to blossom, with more chance of success and less cost to failure.

bjg

one good museum and one bullshit art gallery

What’s wrong with the art gallery?

The Guggenheim museum and works (including a metro) and major city face lift cost €200 million.

€200 million wouldn’t get you very much in Ireland unfortunately.

I can’t imagine what could be used to fill it

Maybe not suitable for an international city centre attraction but I’ve always thought that a Limerick War Musuem that chronicled the various sieges, Viking attacks and the Limerick Soviet would be a good attraction for the city. Also a tourist attraction modelled on the Eden project in Cornwall but about farming and food production instead of gardening could be popular. We are in the Golden Vale after all.

There have been calls for the university to donate their art collections to the city so maybe they could be housed in the factory. Nobody can see them in their current homes anyway.

I’d go along with the food idea, but all these small local squabbles are, I suggest, of little interest to international visitors. I don’t understand why Killaloe persists in plugging Brian Ború. And how much of international interest is there in the UL art collection?

bjg

@lukejr wrote:

Limerick needs a comprehensive plan that fixes the basics, but also plans something grand for the future, an iconic building to attract visitors and improve the brand of the city.

Look at what the Guggenheim Museum did for Bilbao, prior to the museum the city was run down with 25% unemployment. Now the museum alone gets 82,580 visitors per month – 1 million per year. King John’s Castle gets only 30,000 visitors per year, less than one game at Thomond Park.

The Guggenheim museum and works (including a metro) and major city face lift cost €200 million. But it generates an extra 740,904 yearly overnight stays in hotels, at €69 a night that’s €52 million in revenue per year just for hotel rooms. It would be an expensive outlay for the city, but it would benefit from it for years to come.

In my opinion there is no better way to preserve old buildings than to revitalise the city, and an international anchor museum or art gallery would be a an excellent start. Bilbao is a larger city than Limerick, so too is Manchester with their Imperial War Museum, or London with the Tate Modern, but we need to look at what other cities are doing. When a tourist comes to Limerick for a visit, how will they spend their day?

That site is too far away from the centre to result in a revitalization of the centre. I’d be all in favour of something, anything, on the site of the old Dunnes building. In terms of tourism, we can either create a bullshit museum that nobody in reality wants to see, or we can make a decent attempt to restore a bit of medieval character to the area around King John’s Castle and Nicholas Street. If we were to do so, we would have an attraction that no other city in Ireland has, and a unique selling point.

@pigtown wrote:

What’s wrong with the art gallery?

Well there’s nothing wrong with it, but it’s not really a tourist attraction that the average person would want to visit. It doesn’t have any famous paintings. It’s a perfectly adequate and pleasant low-key space for local and lesser-known artists to display their work, for those who are interested. We don’t need another one, which is what the person above’s suggestion would amount to.

@rumpelstiltskin wrote:

the old Dunnes building

That would make a fabulous location for a public building or museum as it has a great view of the castle and with a river front too, there is lots of possibilities. I had hoped something would be done with it, but as far as I know it is still owned by Dunnes Stores.

@bjg wrote:

if the hoteliers of Limerick want an extra €52 million in revenue, let them pay for the proposed museum or gallery. I can’t imagine what could be used to fill it — or where the money would come from. Cheap, low-cost attractions

You missed the point (neg attitude too), that was the lowest spend expected of a visitor, they’ll spend money in shops, restaurants, transport. Cheap and cheerful, oh great, try and build an international tourist campaign around that. The Bilbao effect has been well documented, sure it has it’s problems, but overall it gave the city a serious re-branding and increased tourist numbers significantly. Paying for, Municipal bonds could be an option.

International tourists! What do you visit when you go to a city for a weekend? Stay in a hotel, eat out and visit local attractions. In Limerick we have the following, please add if I’ve missed something:

– King John’s Castle
– Treaty Stone
– Hunt Museum
– Thomond Park
– Limerick Art Gallery
– Frank McCourt Museum
– UL (art gallery in concert hall)
– Limerick City Museum

Maybe this thread should be moved, or a new thread started. But I like the discussion.

“You missed the point (neg attitude too), that was the lowest spend expected of a visitor, they’ll spend money in shops, restaurants, transport.”

Excellent. More people to contribute to the cost so the taxpayer won’t have to pay for it. Perhaps the best thing would be to increase the commercial rates so that city businesses can pay for developments.

“In Limerick we have the following, please add if I’ve missed something: ….”

Those are things to do on a rainy day in Limerick when you’ve nothing better to do; none of them will attract folk to visit in the first place, because they’re not very interesting or important.

You might find some support for your position in the study published by the Heritage Council today http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Press_Releases/PR_Launch_of_Historic_Environment_Report_29.5.12.pdf. That’s a PDF of the press release; the document itself doesn’t seem to be on the HC website yet. The point it doesn’t answer is whether the return on investment in heritage tourism is better than that on reducing the national debt.

bjg

@bjg wrote:

That’s a PDF of the press release; the document itself doesn’t seem to be on the HC website yet.bjg

Thanks for the link I’ll have a read.

Having a museum or gallery isn’t just for tourists, but also for the residents of the city. Museums with rotating exhibitions, visiting exhibitions, these all bring locals to visit the city, and re-visit museums. Hence the reason that most museums outside of Ireland offer annual visitor passes and membership.

bjg: Your point has been noted, if you can add constructive discussion please do. But saying No, isn’t an answer to the problem I think we are discussing here.

Funding, looking at how other cities fund large capital projects is important. The EU’s European Regional Development Fund and National Lottery could be tapped, the EU part funded the Imperial War Museum North in Manchester. Corporate donations, and public fund raising is also possible. But rates are an obvious example, I think in the future local rates will fund visitors via airports. The cities paying for airlines per person to bring them passengers, not the other way around, like it is now. Once visitors start arriving in numbers, using a tourist tax similar to Seattle to fund further projects is a possibility.

Growing the population of Limerick City is key to the sustainability of it as a city, how is this done? The international brand of Limerick City is how it attracts FDI, picking Limerick over Galway or Dublin, or another European city.

@bjg wrote:

Those are things to do on a rainy day in Limerick when you’ve nothing better to do; none of them will attract folk to visit in the first place, because they’re not very interesting or important.

I’d have to disagree with this. You’re not going to come to Ireland just to go to Limerick and see those things, but if people are in Ireland then there is potentially a lot to draw people to Limerick. We’re competing with Cork and Galway, basically. And if you think about it, there’s almost nothing in Cork or Galway of any interest predating the 19th century. They’re both architecturally and historically boring. Yet they get more tourists because they’re cleaner and better presented.

Other than Dublin, no other city in Ireland has a Georgian quarter as extensive as Limerick. There’s little historic architecture of note in Cork or Galway.

Limerick is the only one of the four major cities to have a recognizably medieval castle in the city centre – and no other city has a vista to compare with that of King John’s Castle overlooking the river.

Limerick has arguably the best museum in Ireland outside of Dublin. What does Cork have, the butter museum?

Unlike Cork and Galway, Limerick has a medieval cathedral dating back to the 12th century. Yet somehow, 19th century St. Fin Barre’s cathedral gets a lot more attention.

Seriously, Limerick City Council, it’s not that difficult. “Restore” a few dutch gabled buildings on Nicholas street, put down cobblestones, put some thatched roofs here and there, and subsidise some craft shops – you have a medieval quarter. It’s what they do all over England – there are only about three really historic buildings in the whole of Stratford-on-Avon. I was in Romania a few years ago and they were basically in the process of constructing Sighisoara as a medieval town.

@lukejr wrote:

[bjg: Your point has been noted, if you can add constructive discussion please do. But saying No, isn’t an answer to the problem I think we are discussing here.

I’m afraid you’ve lost me: I don’t know which point you’ve noted.

Just in case it’s about funding, I’m very much opposed to having taxpayers (or lenders) foot the bill for large projects designed to transfer income to specific industries. I realise of course that seizing the power to force such transfers is what Irish politics is (and always has been) about, but perhaps the present economic situation will teach people a lesson.

@lukejr wrote:

Growing the population of Limerick City is key to the sustainability of it as a city, how is this done? The international brand of Limerick City is how it attracts FDI, picking Limerick over Galway or Dublin, or another European city.

Why does it need to be sustainable “as a city”? Why not leave it alone?

bjg

An interesting article in the Irish Times today, titled: 80% of jobs in new foreign firms go to just three cities. Limerick and Waterford both being left behind, majority of jobs going to Dublin, Cork and Galway.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0605/1224317294706.html

“You have to create investment in places to make them attractive for foreign direct investment. Places such as Waterford and Limerick have not received that boost.”

http://www.sfpc.ie/download/Draft%20SFPC%20Masterplan%20-%20January%202013.pdf
Shannon Foynes Port Company’s draft masterplan envisages redeveloping Bannatyne Mills on the Dock Rd. Page 65 of the document has some interesting illustrations of what the building could look like if it was reused. I just wonder what kind of a company would take on the refurbishment of such a building. It would need a massive amount of work.

Preliminary work has started on the conservation of the Mill.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/local-business/historic-limerick-building-is-refurbished-1-4748124
More info on the building here http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=LI&regno=21516002
It certainly is an imposing building and would be an impressive headquarters for any business.

Just to let people know- Dan Cruikshank will be giving a lecture , organised by the local chapter of the Irish Georgian Society, in the Hunt museum, next Monday evening (7pm), entitled ‘ A future for Georgian Limerick’.
It promises to be an interesting evening. Hopefully it will be an opportunity for all of us who are interested in preserving the architecture of Limerick and revitalising the city centre to enjoy an outsider’s opinion, and to learn about how other cities have succeeded in preserving their heritage.