An Irish National Stadium!
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Fugging GAA make a mockery of sport in this country. no better than unionists with their hardline no compromise winner takes all we are the winners attitude.
every time i see sean kelly on tv i clench my fists. ggrrrrrrr………….
If you look carefully at the image Paul linked to you’ll see (C) Arup Sport on the side of the stadium where the stadium name might be. Very cute.
There is still no official mention as to where Ireland will play their games if this goes ahead. I presume they are hoping Croke Park doors will eventually open up! That will be historic day, the first foreign sport played in Croke Park. It will be a sell out no matter who we are playing?
Not the first foreign games played. There have been a few American Football games played there over the years.
Originally posted by blue
That will be historic day, the first foreign sport played in Croke Park.It maybe wasn’t the first, but I was at the Notre Dame-Navy American football game that was played in Croke Pk in 1996.
I think the Arup Lansdowne Rd plan looks great – its definately what we should go for. I wouldn’t hold me breath about GAA opening Croker, though. I think IRFU should play games in Belfast during the construction phase, don’t know what FAI can do.
lovl…. was there any event staged there?? and wasn’t it all very friendly concert though!!!
grid iron has a advantage of wwf in that’s it’s real..ish!
Looks fantastic, on the news last night (on what was the worst report of all time) they said the roofs are angles to reduce the exposure to the elements to a substantial degree.
I can see Croke Pk being opened at the next AGM.in today’s indo!!!!
Gerry McDermott – Exclusive: Lansdowne multi-million euro blunder
Monday January 26th 2004CHOOSING Lansdowne Road as Ireland’s National Stadium is a mistake that will cost this country hundreds of millions of euro.
So insists a financial expert who maintains that the stadium could prove to be over 10 times more expensive to the state than building in Abbotstown.
The IRFU’s headquarters, the current home of Ireland’s international rugby and soccer teams, is expected to be chosen tomorrow by the Government for a €250m revamp.
The decision should bring to an end a five-year debate on the provision of the national stadium but a top expert on stadia insists that Abbotstown remains the most cost-effective location for the state.
The expert told the Irish Independent that when the new-look Lansdowne Road opens its doors it will prove to have been a much more expensive option than its Abbotstown rival.
The Irish-based expert, who agreed to talk solely on the basis that his name would not be revealed, is a planning and engineering consultant with a significant background in the forward planning of major sports infrastructure. He has followed the stadium saga since its infancy and is well versed in all aspects of the debate.
He firmly believes that the IRFU’s hopes of having the stadium built by 2008 is overly optimistic, claiming that a finishing date beyond 2010 is much more realistic.
“An Environmental Impact Study will be required which could be quite time consuming in preparation and eventual approval together, of course, with the planning process,” said the expert.
“The resident associations and city councillors are already making serious noises and are extremely unhappy that they are going to lose their local section of the Dodder Linear Park. Then there is a further serious delay factor associated with the demolition work before any construction can take place.
“A figure of €250 million has been quoted but the real price will be the tender price. If there are delays then that price is going to increase and the cost could easily double to over €500m at the end of the day.
“On construction costs alone an adequate sized Abbotstown stadium would be of less cost to the state than the 50,000 Lansdowne Road stadium and, more importantly, can be completed in a much shorter time period, quite likely by early 2007. That’s an important point to make in light of the figures that have been tossed around to the contrary.”
The expert added that if rugby and soccer internationals have to be moved out of Ireland during the construction phase then the loss to the economy could be in excess of €700m.
“I think Croke Park must not be factored in as a back-up because of the GAA’s expanding gaelic games programme. That venue will be fully taxed to meet their own growing needs. The limiting physical environment outside the Croke Park stadium area must also be factored in,” he added.
With the population of the Dublin Metropolitan Area expected to rise to two million by 2041 and 700,000 in the adjoining counties, the consultant argues that the capacity requirement of any stadium design should be based on the needs of a period of at least 40 to 50 years ahead.
“In any basic calculation that figure would be at least 80,000 capacity for our international games.
“Lansdowne Road falls well short of such design capacity requirement at 50,000, which is only a 1,000 increase on the current attendance at rugby internationals, and where the current capacity need for some time has been well in excess of 65,000.
“There will be no room to expand the 50,000 capacity at Lansdowne whereas a 65,000 seater stadium at Abbotstown could be constructed within a shell built to accommodate 80,000 people.”
The consultant estimates that the limited capacity of Lansdowne would lead to a loss of up to seven million seats over a normal stadium lifespan of at least 50 years.
“Taking everything into consideration the overall cost and loss to the economy, in the widest sense, of going forward with the Lansdowne choice would be in excess of €4billion over the lifetime of the stadium.
“Do we then really have to do a cost comparison when the Lansdowne Road proposal could work out to be more then 10 times the cost and loss to the state than the higher capacity Abbotstown stadium?” he asked.
The consultant also claims that when the necessary time horizon is taken into account Abbotstown will eventually be closer to the centre population within the Greater Dublin Area while Lansdowne Road will become more peripheral.
It’s location beside the M50 and the N3, just 1.5km from Blanchardstown town centre, and close to Dublin airport also adds to the attractiveness of Abbotstown, he added.
“There is still a role for Lansdowne and it should be retained and used for interprovincial games like the Heineken Cup and club games but Abbotstown would be the venue for our major international sports.”
The consultant admitted he is a supporter of the proposed stadium at Abbotstown within a realistic time frame and believes that it represents a major opportunity to develop world class sporting facilities for use by the whole island on the 500 acres of state land.
“We would be envy of many capital cities and nations and it is crucial that this state asset must not be prostituted,” he said.
Unlike Lansdowne, a stadium at Abbotstown could have a footprint design for an international athletics track which would leave Ireland in a prime position to host major championships and become a bidder to host the Olympic Games.
The Consultant was impressed by the Architectural Framework Plan presented to the Government in February 2001 by the Munich architects Behnish Behnish & Partners where the new stadium would be the central within such a Campus.
never believe an expert who wont put his name to it….
“The Irish-based expert, who agreed to talk solely on the basis that his name would not be revealed, is a planning and engineering consultant with a significant background in the forward planning of major sports infrastructure. He has followed the stadium saga since its infancy and is well versed in all aspects of the debate.”
yea…could it be a expert in the mind of the writer!!! mind u it’s not the sun/star or similiar papers but then again that doesn’t mean it’s not an over active imagination by the writer.
but i do agree with itOriginally posted by FIN
…Ireland in a prime position to host major championships and become a bidder to host the Olympic Games.
The Sports Campus Ireland certainly looks attractive, but does anyone really believe we can build it. Much as I’d love it to happen, we’re never going to host the Olympic Games. Greece is the smallest country ever to host the games and they only got it because of their history (quite rightly).
Originally posted by FIN
It’s location beside the M50 and the N3, just 1.5km from Blanchardstown town centre, and close to Dublin airportLansdowne Rd is 1.5km from the city centre, where all the hotels are, and where fans travelling from other parts of the country arrive. Its also got a railway line, which Abbotstown doesn’t.
I can see the concerns about capacity, but Abbotstown would have the potential to be a white elephant, whereas we know what type of events Lansdowne attracts.
Landsdowne is a short term solution, a capacity of 50,000 is just not enough ….
We will end up looking at the whole Abbotstown question again in 20 years time.
too true and then we will say the exact same things and they may even try to redevelop lansdowne again!!!!
Was there not talk of using the old glass factory in Ringsend at one stage? What ever happened to that as an idea or option?
Dublin business favours Lansdowne venue
A survey carried out by Dublin Chamber of Commerce shows that four out of five businesses in Dublin favour a Lansdowne Road development over Abbotstown site.
The survey of the Chamber’s 2,000 plus members, carried out over the past ten days, is consistent with an earlier poll carried out in April of last year.
The 2003 poll showed that 96 per cent of businesses in Dublin consider that a second stadium is needed, while 76 per cent said that it should be in a venue close to the city centre, with most favouring a Lansdowne Road redevelopment.
The Minister for Sport, Mr O’Donoghue is expected to make his recommendation to Cabinet this week.
The estimated cost of the stadium is €250 million, of which the IRFU and FAI would contribute €83 million. With some €84 million of the total cost expected to return to the Exchequer in PAYE, PRSI, and VAT, the organisations put the net cost to the State at only €83 million.
http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/2415100?view=Eircomnet
the sound coming from the locals and the planners however is different. it could be jammed in the planning process for years with no guarantee for success. where as the abbotstown won’t have as many vocal, local opposition. and as i said earlier the 60,000 with the option is the best possible solution to the debate as it gives us a sizeable stadium now with future expansion optionable. the reason for abbotstown is that it is government land so won’t cost anything(if the gov develop it in conjunction with everybody). if there is suitable land for a development being the same then by all means but that doesn’t seem the case.
Regarding Landsdowne
The researcher for the Indo didn’t look at the map carefully enough, the linear park is actually on the other side of the river.
The locals will in fact lose nothing, the design has been carried out to ensure that light is protected for the neighbours of the stadium.
I think that if an integrated strategy between the GAA and the new stadium is agreed everyone can win.
Early GAA championship double headers in Landsdowne and major internationals in Croker.
One of the major reasons for the GAA not to play ball thus far, has been that the IRFU/FAI have had nothing to offer the GAA.
With this stadium they have a major carrot to help the moderates in the GAA who seek change.
The crowd on Friday night was big enough to justify calculations of a 40,000 crowd in landsdowne 4-5 times a year from Leinster as well. You would never see 60-80000 attend a Leinster match unless it were a Euro final.
The lands at abbottstown should be sold, if a 60-80000 seater is to be built, Abbotstown would be the worst location after the Red Cow roundabout.
if it goes ahead in abbotstown then lansdowne doesn’t have to be touched so leinster can still play there and get those crowds but if the population increase is correct then we have to cater for the expected numbers in 10/15/20 years time and not just now.
there is problems alright but these are only proposals. a lot of detail design has to be done yet, on both schemes.
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