An Irish National Stadium!
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One thing to remember when talking about Croke Park is that the GAA are a private membership organisation. It is entirely their own business what they decide. What changes will come will be on their terms.
stira,
i agree totally with u on every point, well almost every one… it looks strange without it finished and they were stupid enough to list the hill aswell so even if they wanted to they can’t finish it. it would be much better to have it finished but i don’t belong to gaa and never will so i can’t explain that. it still is a 70,000 seater stadium even without it anyway and yes it wasn’t the only place innocent irish were killed. but the 2 u mentiioned r not great examples of where innocent irish were killed. but besides that it is a private company and it did accept tax-payers money so they are well within their rights to refuse but we as taxpayers are within our rights to demand it be opened. the government should have written into the contract that it be opened up or at least leased which is what some genius in the gaa came up with to let everybody off the hook.The difference between the GPO and Croke park is that the those killed in the GPO knew the risks they were taking. The great hibernian sacrifice.
Those killed in Croke park went to a game on a Sunday with their kids.
Regarding the Government money, should the government not have a negotiated something prior to the grant. Is it not rude to give money with no strings and then ask for a return?
I remember hearing somewhere that the reason Hill 16 got its name is because it was built out of the rubble from buildings damaged during 1916! Does anyone know if this is true or if it is an urban legend?
Croke Park will never be opened up to other sports, and neither should it. As for the issue of tax-payers money being used – a drop in the ocean when you look at over 100 years of development of facilities, fitness, community and pride throughout the entire nation, mostly through sheer hard work and fundraising by the members of the organisation. Why should the GAA and it’s members stand for the pitch at Croke Park being torn to shreds by Rugby games during the winter months? Why should the GAA allow rival games have the benefit of it’s stadium that it has paid for fairly and squarely when it’s fighting the promotional battle against soccer and rugby constantly? It’s total nonsense for anyone to demand this off the GAA.
Croke park is being built to the original plans. It was never intended for the Hill 16 end to become a covered stand simply because there isn’t enough space for it on the site. The Railway line from Connolly to Heuston cuts the corner off which is why the hill was higher on the Cusack side than at the Hogan Side. The new Hill will be steeper, higher capacity, and will include a permanent “Big Screen” at the site of the Nally stand, to cover the Blank wall of the Railway embankment. Personally I’m more than happy thet the Hill will remain, it being by far the most atmospheric part of the stadium. Hopefully I’ll get to watch Tyrone win the Sam McGuire from a similar vantage point in future as I did this year!!
Hi Fin, I know the GPO and Dail werent good examples, i didnt want to start a history lesson but you know the point im trying to make. Your rgiht though, those who were in the GPO and Dail when they were being bombed and shot at were obviously not civilians. Going back to the stadium, i dont think it would be ideal as the pitch is 150m long i think, im not to sure about the width of the pitch, but my point basicly is that there could be quite a distance between the pitch and the fans. Youd also wonder if it were opened up would ticket prices increase or decrease, at the moment they are crazy considering were paying to watch our national teams play in a glorified barn. Id say about a fifty thousand seatre stadium would be a good capacity, for any new one that may be built, also with the improving economy and finances hopefully this project will atlast take off, no one can deny that the situation is such a joke its not even funny.
youre right stira, the pitch is a lot bigger than either, 160m x 100m. Rugby and soccer only need about 100m x 70m so there would probably be a bit too much distance between the edge of the stands and the pitch itself to create a truly great atmosphere…
Being a big fan of Rugby as well as GAA I’m interested to see what becomes of Lansdowne Rd. I think it’s be a great shame if Rugby was ever to move from that venue. Of course it needs a huge amount of money spent on it but the IRFU is bound to have enough money in their coffers and property they could sell off to at least get the ball rolling. The GAA raised well over a third of the finances for Croke park simply by selling corporate boxes and 10 year seats. Coupled with a bit of government subsidy (fairs fair after all..) I’d say they could aim for a decent 50,000 seater stadium on the site which would be more than adequate to accommodate Rugby or Soccer internationals…People engaged in this debate always forget that the mission of the GAA is to promote the Irish sports; something they do very well, few countries of our size persue their indiginous sports at the level that the GAA sports are played here and Ireland is a more interesting, varied and fun place because they are.
The GAA keep Croke Park closed because it is in there interests to do so, they have built up the honour of playing there as a potent myth and a motivator in an amatuer game. This would be diminished if Croke Park became less exclusive, they will only do so if it is worth there while financially.
The GAA was given money by the government with no strings attached, it isn’t their job to second guess the moral obligations this money creates, their job is to spend it in the way that they feel best serves there mission: promoting Irish sports.
Terraces create atmosphere and soccer clubs would have liked to have kept them, they were forced to change because the behaviour of their fans made them unsafe. There is no reason why that should affect the GAAs decision about rebuilding Hill 16.
I understand that some people are anxious that Croke Park be opened for soccer so Man U can play there in round whatever of the European Champions whatever, and even if I wanted that too, I don’t see what it has to do with the GAA unless they wanted to increase there revenue generating powers. It like critizing Bord na gCon for not opening Shelbourne park up for cycle races.
Maybe notjim but totally correct
Ye’d think too that the government would borrow at least 300 million euro, (If they cannot afford it from exchequer coffers) to go towards the redevelpment of Landsdowne Road so as we could have at least something decent built.
We don’t want half measures here either.
This money would be easily recouped over a couple of years.
(Mean arse fiscal policies of our government and kneejerk psychological reactions to when they ran the country into millions of debt years ago, and had nothing to show for it either, bar mass emigration, mass unemployment and mass itself.
At least we would have a proper stadium to show for the money and something for the future generations of Irish sport fans.(Maybe Mary Harney could open it and do a lap of honour around the track to help lose some of that unwanted excess fat)
Ouch
The issue of the state giving €68 million or so to the GAA is irrelevant – it was no strings attached as notjim says.
That’s like saying the state paid for the restoration of Castletown, therefore the public have a right to hire it out for weddings etc because the taypayer owns it.Did you hear on Prime Time last night – a whopping €12 million has been spent on reports & consultants etc on the issue of a national stadium! It really is pathetic the lack of leadership and clarity on this issue – what a shameful waste of resources.
Hill 16 was indeed built from the rubble of 1916, especially from the collapsed buildings on the east side of O’ Connell Street which included Clerys/Imperial Hotel.
(Sorry, but no one was killed in the Dail in 1916 – largly due to the fact that it didn’t exist)
I meant the Four Courts, even when it has been agreed to build the stadium, it is going to have to go through the planning process. If Lansdowne is to be replaced i dont think planning permission should be sought, i know its highly unlikely but i hope they can just build it immediately. Look at the facts 1. we need a stadium 2. lansdowne is simply being replaced, why give the begrudgers and objectors a chance to object to a replacement structure? 3. Scrapping the planning process would save a year or two judging by the speed of the decisions here.
definately, however i don’t see that happening. and after a year in planning it probably go to an bord cos an taisce don’t want to see lansdowne knocked cos it’s a listed building or some ohter rubbish. the needs of the majority must overcome the objections of a very small minority.
the gov have been throwing this around for years and expense that is hard to justify, just because they don’t agree where it should be. i say enough sh*te and build it as with this and various other rpomises that don’t seem to be happening either they got back into government as it certainly wasn’t their record of financial competency.Just think the money that could have been spent 6 years ago on a stadium has since gone into to the health service and other “more noteworthy causes” and have we noticed the difference Mary? Eh … no! The health service is still a mess.
Spend the bloody money and invest in the future. Economic arguments seem to govern everything now a days. From the closing of local hospitals to the building of stadiums we have forgotten the non-economic effects.
You can’t put a price on some of the social benefits of building a stadia. Even if all it does is encourage more kids to play sport its worth it.
If more kids play sport it will mean they are less likely to burden the health service later in life!! There’s an economic benefit for you. 😉
Don’t the IRFU own a land bank out at Newlands Cross?
Pedantic point I know but – the Four Courts was bombed in 1922 so it’s not rubble from there either.
Just build the thing at Lansdowne all seater if needs be for the soccer boys. Hill 16 should not be amended by seating the terrace. Terraces are wonderful places with the best character in the stadia – just unfortunate that they have had their image tarnuished by soccer hooliganism.
Just heard on the news on the radio that the delegation that met the government today presented proposals for the new stadium at Landsdowne Road.
This would involve demolishing the current kip and erecting a 50,000 seater stadium on the same site.
The new stadium would look similar to the Mcalpine Stadium in Huddersfield.
See image attached.
Looks good to me ….Let’s see if the dithering auld silly bastards in the government will go with it.why will it look similar to the mcalpine stadium?is this a buy one get one free offer?
plus in my opinion that is one of the worst looking new stadiums ive seen. 4 stupid arches, is this all they can think of to give it a sense of individuality? giant shapes in your face.why will it look similar to the mcalpine stadium?is this a buy one get one free offer?
plus in my opinion that is one of the worst looking new stadiums ive seen. 4 stupid arches, is this all they can think of to give it a sense of individuality? giant shapes in your face.
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