"A Very Old Quaint Pub"…

In China, Built Heritage courses are often incorporated into Tourism courses.

The way of the future?

In China, they knock down the original historical structures and build shiny new reconstructions on the very same site, to make it more attractive to the hoards of mindless imbeciles who are driven around the sites on golf carts taking photos of themselves.

Fat American tourists eat your heart out for ignorance.

Lets not look to China for any kind of sensitivity lessons.

If it’s authentic heritage you’re after then I recommend Benny Anderson in Ardee. Get there quick before the affable Mr Anderson snuffs it This pub is the REAL thing, in fact it makes The Gravediggers look like the Foxrock Inn. Just don’t tell any one else about it.

In China, they knock down the original historical structures and build shiny new reconstructions on the very same site, to make it more attractive to the hoards of mindless imbeciles who are driven around the sites on golf carts taking photos of themselves.

ha ha…that’s very true………..please no megaphones on the cliffs of Moher!

@what? wrote:

Lets not look to China for any kind of sensitivity lessons.

Not what I was advocating at all, what?.

Previous post of mine on the subject here, mentioning the same approach to heritage and conservation as your first paragraph, though as you’ll see in the post I understand that the motive is not ‘to make it more attractive to the hoards of mindless imbeciles’, but rather that it is an approach to heritage that significantly pre-dates any notion of mindless imbecile tourists. As you’ll also see, I mentioned there that westerners have a hard time understanding this approach because we bring the baggage of our westerner way of doing things, which is fundamentally at odds with the Asian mindset.

Thread from which that post was taken is here.

True enough and I saw that discussion. Still, I’m not sure that approach to historic sites can continue to have validity unless the rebuilding/restoration is done with some kind of sensitivity and respect for the qualities of the original building,such as the Japanese show in their rebuilding of the Shinto shrine of .I’d be very afraid that often its just a shoddy facsmile thrown up in cement. Look also at how the Japanese have changed their minds about the way they used to “restore” some old buildings. After WW2 several Castles were rebuilt in concrete but now,they are demolishing the original reconstructions and re-re-building them as scrupulous reconstructions of the original castles using contemporary plans and descriptions.

What amuses-slash-nettles me most on the topic of ‘authentic’ or heritage pubs is the way in which the literary pub crawl element has elbowed onto the scene. A plaque honoring James Joyce and Ulysses outside of Davy Byrne’s makes sense as an homage since a central episode of the book takes place in the pub. But has anyone noticed the dubious ‘James Joyce Pub Award’ plaques plastered outside of various pubs in Dublin as well as other parts of the country? What in God’s name is the criteria for this distinction, and what does any of it have to do with James Joyce?

I remember first seeing one of these curios on the Ferryman and wondering, ah, what’s the connection to Joyce here? Read the plaque and you’ll get the answer: Well, nothing, really. I don’t have a picture handy, but just visualize your average bronze oval plaque with ubiquitous bronze authorial figurehead atop a text which reads [italics mine]:

This pub has been granted the James
Joyce Pub Award for being an authentic Irish Pub.

“A good puzzle would be to cross Ireland without
passing a pub.” -Ulysses

James Joyce identified and described the
characteristic ambience of the Irish Pub so
successfully that the characters in Ulysses may be
fictional, but they are based on a multitude of living
beings, characters who Joyce found in pubs just like
this one. This establishment remains an outstanding
example of the tradition which Joyce immortalised in
his works and is an authentic Irish Pub which remains
a genuineness of atmosphere friendliness and presence
of good company.

Additional, highly amusing rants on the topic can be found here. Apparently the criteria are, er, loosely outlined, as anyone who’s stumbled into Sinnott’s can attest.

Is’nt that the greatest ‘oul wooly nonsense ever, so tangentially related to JJ, such irrelevent guff .And did’nt he say “..puzzle…to cross DUBLIN without passing a pub”. They are good rants, all right. Every word spot on.More power to him.
BTW, the missing word above is “Ise”

@Hiivaladan wrote:

And did’nt he say “..puzzle…to cross DUBLIN without passing a pub”

Argh, yes of course. It seems I was too caught up in deciding which ridiculously Oirish phrase on the plaque to italicize that I missed this glaring error. Thanks for the correction, Hiivaladan. Crossing Dublin, not Ireland, was the puzzle. Makes it even more of a non-sequitur that the o-so-exclusive James Joyce Pub Award finds itself brazenly slathered over pubs that aren’t even within a stone’s throw of Dublin.

And of course, the riddle was solved by the canny bastard who found the crucial loophole: in order to cross Dublin without passing a pub, any route would work. You would simply have to stop inside every pub you encountered on the way.

But then again, Joyce also claimed that his own descriptions of Dublin were so finely detailed that if the city was razed by some unspeakable catastrophe, it could be rebuilt from scratch based on his descriptions. I seem to recall Frank McDonald writing a great little article about how unfounded this boast was, especially in light of how fundamentally different the city is today than it was in Joyce’s time . . . the piece must’ve appeared in 2004, around the 100th anniversary of Bloomsday. I’ll see if I can track it down. Good food for thought.

More food for thought – which Dublin suburb does not have a pub?
kb

Foxrock?

@alonso wrote:

Foxrock?

No, it has the Magic Carpet.
Clue – suburb is a southside one.

But the Madge is in Cornelscourt!

@KerryBog2 wrote:

No, it has the Magic Carpet.
Clue – suburb is a southside one.

Am intrigued. Is it a semi-rustic spot?e.g Stepaside. Somewhere disadvantaged e.g Neilstown? somewhere up the mountains?

Do you mean no decent imbibimg establishment or the complete absence of a licensed premises, e.g. even Bull island has the golf club bars in a northside context:confused:…

i’m stickin with Foxrock! De Carpet is definitely in Cornelscourt. Stepaside has the Step Inn, and I’m fairly confident the Neilstown “neighbourhood centre” has it’s obligatory windowless Neilstown Inn beside the bookies… must check. Then when I find out what this suburb is, never move there

The Carpet is in Foxrock – the building next door was the Foxrock Parish Hall before being sold by the Diocese.
The answer is not a rustic location (though I suppose nominees could be Brennanstown or Lehaunstown).
Glenageary has no Pub. –
Cabinteely has the Horse & Hound, the Graduate is in Dun Laoghaire, Ballybrack the Igoe Inn, Killiney the Druid’s Chair, Sallynoggin has its complement, Sandycove has Fitzers, Glasthule The Eagle, and Dalkey Finnegans, Queens, Club, etc.,

Kb.

Well, the Dublin 14 part of Clonskeagh doesn’t have a pub.

nah, can’t accept that KB2. Foxrock Parish was the biggest in Ireland geographically, stretching from Deansgrange to Leopardstown to Loughlinstown so the location of the parish hall may not be relevant. The question was “suburb”, and Cornelscourt is a suburb, and the Carpet is in it imo.

And the Grad ain’t in Dun Laoghaire. It’s in the Killiney Shopping Centre area, and the new road beside it is called Sallyglen Road, as it straddles Sallynoggin and Glenageary. I’d call that Killiney or Glenageary meself. As a local. It’s quite messy out there as Rochestown Ave is Dun Laoghaire. But yeh, I’ll accept Glenageary is pub-less. The poor souls!

But they haven’t far to go

@KerryBog2 wrote:

The Carpet is in Foxrock – the building next door was the Foxrock Parish Hall before being sold by the Diocese.
The answer is not a rustic location (though I suppose nominees could be Brennanstown or Lehaunstown).
Glenageary has no Pub. –
Cabinteely has the Horse & Hound, the Graduate is in Dun Laoghaire, Ballybrack the Igoe Inn, Killiney the Druid’s Chair, Sallynoggin has its complement, Sandycove has Fitzers, Glasthule The Eagle, and Dalkey Finnegans, Queens, Club, etc.,

Kb.

I’ll buy Glenageary-sure the Deerhunter is in the ‘noggin:).

Anywhere on the southside without a local hostelry is bound to have no Shamrock Rovers fans around- so I’ll consider moving back across the river to that identified locale:p (er understanding bank manager permitting)

It’s Sutton in Dublin 13.. the only parish in Ireland with no pub.

@alonso wrote:

………… Foxrock Parish was the biggest in Ireland geographically, stretching from Deansgrange to Leopardstown to Loughlinstown so the location of the parish hall may not be relevant. The question was “suburb”, and Cornelscourt is a suburb, and the Carpet is in it imo.

And the Grad ain’t in Dun Laoghaire. It’s in the Killiney Shopping Centre area, and the new road beside it is called Sallyglen Road, as it straddles Sallynoggin and Glenageary. I’d call that Killiney or Glenageary meself. As a local. It’s quite messy out there as Rochestown Ave is Dun Laoghaire. But yeh, I’ll accept Glenageary is pub-less. The poor souls!

But they haven’t far to go

Mmmmmmm. Don’t agree about Foxrock parish stretching to Loughlinstown, Cabinteely has had its eglise for yonks. I always thought the boundary was Kerrymount Rd- west of it is Foxrock, east of it is Cabinteely, and Cornelscourt stretched in a very linear way from opposite the Carpet down to the Clonkeen Rd intersect.???

Agree that the Grad is in KSC, but as that is located on Rochestown Av, it must QED be in Dun Laoghaire. 🙂
Shows what a name does, the ‘noggin gets leap-frogged by Dun L in the late ’50’s sixties just to keep the address right! The Da once told me that there was a similar row when Finglas was built, the superior denizens of Ballymun Rd would not accept a Finglas address.
Kb
old enough to remember when Ballybrack was terribly posh.

I probably meant to refer to Foxrock, the townland, rather than the parish. Still we’ll have to agree to disagree on the address of the Magic Carpet!

But yes the Graduate has it’s address as Dun laoghaire, which I have to say is laughable, as it’s what, 2 miles from the place. I think the new LIDL and the Mackintosh estate are also called Dun Laoghaire and they’re even further away. If you look at a map of where the pub is, the estates between it and Sallynoggin (Rochestown Park) are called Dun Laoghaire as is the pub – it’s like a little island of DL surrounded by the Noggin, Killiney and Glenageary, with the Avenue as some weird outlet as far as Baker;s.

tis a mess alright. The roundabout at the Grad is like 4 corners in America. You can claim to be in Dun Laoghaire, Killiney, Sallynoggin, and Glenageary depending where you stand in the central green area!

ah sure it all contributes to the rich fabric that is Dublin…

:)This was all debated some time back but for newcomers and those with a faulty search engine you must visit Mc Dowells / Richmond House Emmet Road, Inchicore to experience a real Dublin bar with original Victorian snug. Now owned by Garret Kellagher, I hope he has no highrise plans for this site other than his ambitions for St. Patricks Atheltic to reach new heights !! Now if he would only turn off the always distracting and horses running TV.

Foxrock village is the only village in Ireland without a pub or off license. The good residence wouldn’t allow such a common amenity.

There was one – Even today, is there not a wine bar in the old Findlaters?? Not a case of residents disallowing a “common amenity”, rather a case of lack of business demand, as anyone who lived there had their claret delivered by Mitchells, Searsons, et al, where they – naturally – had an account.

heh, yeh true. Technically there is a bar in the Golf Club too