A few queries about the recent docklands developments….
March 9, 2001 at 3:30 am #704965
when is the George’s Quay dev. gonna be finished, and does anyone have pictures?
what’s the story with the conference centre? it’s got approval, yet i’ve heard nothing about it since. is it undergoing a re-design to intergrate into a new spencer dock plan?
any illustrations of the final-look of the work-in-progress between Ulster Bank and Tara St. Station?
which is to be higher, george’s quay or or the “CIE building” at Tara St.? or is it that hanover quay thing that’s seemed to disappear….?
both Belfast and Cork have taller buildings than us? why? surely we dubs would want it that Dublin had Ireland’s highest…. because it (should) outstrip both other cities in terms of vitality, confidence and prosperity and have a landmark building to prove it. we could even be… dare i say… proud?
any answers/comments welcome
[This message has been edited by andy (edited 09 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by andy (edited 09 March 2001).]
March 9, 2001 at 9:51 am #715824
I agree…I hope the Tara Street development gets the go ahead…..we need more distinctive buildings/landmarks for our capital. Afterall, it is the 21st century and we need symbols of our time. I’m all for conservation and restoration of our architectural past (don’t you dare put your greedy developers hand on it)….but when you have the likes of blank canvases such as the docks and insignificant and really run down areas of the city, give them the go ahead….build, build, build…of course once it is of a reasonably high standard. Belfast, Northern Ireland, despite their bigotry, bitterness and ‘backwardness’ is surpassing Dublin with the likes of the Waterfront Hall, the Odyssey Centre, etc…while we are still arguing over planning permission……the Dopes!
March 9, 2001 at 10:38 am #715825notjimParticipant
I think TCD and CIE intend to put an 80m tower on the southern corner of Pearse street and Westland Row, it will incorporate Pearse station, the large carpark area beside it and will require the demolition of the nondiscript 90s student residence called Goldsmith Hall. They are hoping to get planning permission on the principal established in the high buildings report that there should be tall buildings by the transport hubs.
At 80m it will be much higher than Liberty Hall and, I think, the highest building on the island. I must say, I am filled with enthusiasm for the idea.
March 9, 2001 at 2:49 pm #715826
Andy, why should anyone from Dublin feel the need to ‘have’ a building to ‘outstrip Cork and Belfast in terms of “vitality, confidence and prosperity.” Honestly, the fact that those two cities contain buildings that are taller than any of the capitals should not generate a feverish attempt to throw something up. Does a city hold pride by having taller buildings, just for the sake of it…how about having buildings of high design quality, architectural merit, beauty, whether they be high or low? I agree that Dublin probably should be witnessing the construction of much taller buildings, but for reasons aside from because the ‘regional’cities are embarrassing us etc. Build them because they will look good, inspire, accommodate people and jobs. Dublin’s tallest (Liberty hall)was an attempt to introduce height to the city for sake’s sake and I think it is one of the most boring buildings I have seen. Dublin’s vitality and confidence will not emerge from it casting jealous eyes elsewhere or by half- hearted efforts to make statements that supposedly re-affirm its status.Nothing has to be “proven”, where is the insecurity comiong from?
[This message has been edited by bunch (edited 09 March 2001).]
March 10, 2001 at 3:19 pm #715827AnonymousParticipant
so far most of the work done in the docklands has been awful. There is so much potential to build great landmark buildings, instead we’re getting bland crap, and all of it around 4 stories high – (citibank is a prime example, would nearly fall asleep looking at it).
Don’t see why building heights are so limited – there is a lot of scope to build good high-rise buildings in the docklands. I think it is the only area of the city where taller buildings should be permitted, better to have a cluster of them in the one area than a few all over the place. The DDDA are to blame for the boring rubbish that has been built so far.
[This message has been edited by Peter FitzPatrick (edited 10 March 2001).]
March 10, 2001 at 5:30 pm #715828
reply to bunch:
>”Andy, why should anyone from Dublin feel the need to ‘have’ a building to ‘outstrip Cork and Belfast in terms of “vitality, confidence and prosperity.” Honestly, the fact that those two cities contain buildings that are taller than any of the capitals should not generate a feverish attempt to throw something up.”
…couldn’t agree more. i wouldn’t back the construction of a very tall building if it wasn’t interesting and didn’t use it’s height as a primary artistic tool.
>”Does a city hold pride by having taller buildings, just for the sake of it…how about having buildings of high design quality, architectural merit, beauty, whether they be high or low?”
….again, i’m in agreement. for example, the river facade of the ifsc is one of my favourite things in dublin to look at. but here’s a half-assed analogy: i’m a musician. and i, like architects, enjoy variety in my chosen art form. if i decided to write ONLY 3-minute pop songs and nothing more, i’d surely be as boring as dublin’s skyline.
>”I agree that Dublin probably should be witnessing the construction of much taller buildings, but for reasons aside from because the ‘regional’cities are embarrassing us etc.”
….fair point. yes, build them for the right reasons. my point really was that if Irish cities, Belfast in-particular (ok I know its the UK but it’s got a lot in common), have no problem with erecting tall structures in their city, then what’s our problem?
>”Dublin’s tallest (Liberty hall)was an attempt to introduce height to the city for sake’s sake and I think it is one of the most boring buildings I have seen.”
….ok, but maybe if they reglazed those ‘rickety’-looking windows, it’d do the building the world of good.
>”Dublin’s vitality and confidence will not emerge from it casting jealous eyes elsewhere or by half- hearted efforts to make statements that supposedly re-affirm its status.Nothing has to be “proven”, where is the insecurity comiong from?”
….maybe the insecurity comes from having a mother from London and seeing with my own eyes what TRUE confidence in a city looks like.
March 12, 2001 at 8:54 am #715829
excellent reply,thanks… however the ‘insecurity’ topic- i was addressing that, not at you as an individual, but at what I considered as a general attitude towards Dublin’s architecture. It was not a personal remark.
March 15, 2001 at 4:17 pm #715830
heh, no problem. maybe we’d all like to have some more impressive structures in dublin to be able to show off to our out-of-town friends.
March 21, 2001 at 10:25 am #715831DrawingboardParticipant
Do you feel embarassed by Dublin? A friend of mine recently returned from a weekend in Manchester and has been going on about how well they spent money in comparison to here. And I agree, Manchester has a civic pride missing here. Civic pride in Dublin seems to be restricted to “look how mouldy everything is, isn’t it great?”
March 23, 2001 at 1:44 pm #715832
Dublin can be embarassing…..but it is a lot better than the condition it used to be in….acres of derelict sites, destruction of the historical fabric, inept misplaced new architecture …and all due to our ‘culchie’ country brethern TD politicians , councillors etc…..who new nothing of urban living (read it’s history)… ..and alot can be said too of the ‘Dirty Dub’ natives who knew nothing better…and still don’t. Dublin should be the jewel of the isle…..just like Paris etc….It should preserve and conserve it’s architectural heritage but welcome the new and dynamic. It should have the tallest building or whatever in the country…why not? It should have the big names of international architecture …why not? It is the capital of the country and it is incomprehensible why anyone from out side the city should resent it. After all nearly half the population ot the Republic live here….and a substantial ammount are from a provincial background. A city reflects how a people/society live….so if a city, especially a capital city is filthy, vandalised, with improper and inadequate facilities and infrastructure etc …well it says a lot then of the nation itself. We must change for the betterment of ourselves….must’nt we?
March 24, 2001 at 3:23 am #715833AnonymousParticipant
Dublin still has some way to go, the city can look brilliant in some lights and terrible in others….sometimes it is Embarrassing walking with foreign friends down O’Connell Street – I find myself trying to explain that the street is “due” to be redeveloped (blah, blah, blah) – the redevelopment is taking far to long…i’m not sure why i would feel embarrassed, its probably something to do with the whole Irish inferiorty complex thing…Irish people still feel like they have to proove something and in fairness we had to work hard to obtain some sort of respect from other countries (and obviously the country next store springs to mind).
March 26, 2001 at 9:27 am #715834
Yes, Dublin should be the source of pride for every person in this country, as our capital city and should also as our ‘representative’, internationally. But, I always wonder why there is such a panic about ‘having the tallest building’. Greg F., you ask the question..”Dublin should have the tallest building, Why not?” But you fail to say Why? In addition, I believe that the reason that people outside Dublin who criticise the ‘bias’ that Dublin is shown in terms of investment etc. are not merely jealous or typically anti- Dublin. Dublin is a primate city, the most extreme case in Europe. Primacy is a problem, which can be disastrous. The overdevelopment of Dublin, outwards, in a continious low-density suburb is a negative for national development and for Dublin, and is one of the least- planned capital cities in Europe, Athens aside. The French realised that primacy would stifle national development, as did Denmark…and resultingly introduced balanced regional development strategies. Great ‘second’ cities in Europe like Barcelona, and Lyon didn’t sit passively by, as Madrid and Paris dominated national development. Limerick, Cork shouldn’t either. For Dublin to say no to investment and development from time to time will not only be beneficial to the ‘provincial’ cities, it will benefit Dublin too. Greg F. the population of Ireland is presently approx. 3.8 million, Dublin does not have 1.9 million yet, even if you include satellite towns in Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, Louth. p.s. as a ‘provincial, I am (and want to be) proud of Dublin, but I also want to hold the same pride in relation to our other cities. Apologies for the scattered reply.
March 26, 2001 at 11:01 am #715835Rory WParticipant
How about Dublin having the best buildings and not just the tallest. That would surely give us the primacy that we crave.
March 27, 2001 at 3:14 pm #715836
You’ve answered yourself Bunch……. maybe if Dublin had more taller structures even the the tallest it would stem the urban sprawl of the city.
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