Tipperary Venue

Anyone remember ‘Vega City’ from about 5 years ago?. I think there’ll be more implausible mega-projects to come across the provinces off the back of’ ‘it’ll get de plannin’ cuz of de downturn’. They should plonk a Mississippi riverboat in a lake on site as well for the crack.

lovin the river boat idea – Lough Derg all the way

What are the bets that the only bit of this proposal that is ever built is the white house? that it’s all an elaborate plan so that Dr Quirkey can get his “dream home” on his 800 acre estate without the planning authority looking for revised plans that are more sympathetic to “the vernacular”?

Seriously though, is this thing for real???

some of the locals seem to think it will fly through planning because of the jobs it will create. The lands currently aren’t even zoned at present.

I hope the planning authority have the balls to do the right thing and refuse it.

Is this just an attempt to grab some value for the land? Seems totally bizarre and absolutely horrible.

@jackscout wrote:

some of the locals seem to think it will fly through planning because of the jobs it will create. The lands currently aren’t even zoned at present.

I hope the planning authority have the balls to do the right thing and refuse it.

Incorrect Mr. Scout. I think if you consult the county plan you’ll find the site is zoned Special Objective ‘FTFDBDZY 01’; Funtabulousfandabbiedozy. Land Uses –

PERMITTED IN PRINCIPLE; pitch and toss arena, whist hall, tea rooms, coin pusher arcade game, air rifle plastic duck shooting range.

OPEN FOR CONSIDERATION; Humungous gambling resort- Atlantic City eat your heart out, we’re gonna book Gloria Estafan for a 99 night run in the Bog Bowl ye feckers.

NOT NORMALLY PERMITTED; Sanity.

Apart from the feckin white house,it looks great. not gonna happen tho

Really, you don’t think the white house sets the whole thing off, contrast of old and new and all that?

@jackscout wrote:

some of the locals seem to think it will fly through planning because of the jobs it will create. The lands currently aren’t even zoned at present.

I hope the planning authority have the balls to do the right thing and refuse it.

Why?Why would refusing it be the right thing to do?:confused:

@EIA340600 wrote:

Why?Why would refusing it be the right thing to do?:confused:

firstly providing (or trying to) a concert venue that is totally car dependant is anything but sustainable development.

there is a small thing called land use and zoning also to take into consideration, but then again when did that ever matter before!

does the county really need another hotel or golf course I think not. there will be plenty of suitable properties within the NAMA portfolio, without the need to go build another one.

as for how viable it is to develop a racecourse currently, one has to ask why The Curragh hasn’t gone ahead with its redevelopment plans.

@jackscout wrote:

firstly providing (or trying to) a concert venue that is totally car dependant is anything but sustainable development.

.

whilst i agree that this is an abomination, i must point out the fact that our most prominent venue, the O2 (point depot) has NO public transport hub!!!!

as a regular concert goer it bemuses me no end that I have to drive from my home town to the redcow, get on luas that brings me as far as busaras and then make my own means along the next 1.5 kw to the O2…. if this venue can be planned as a “commercial venture first, public transport later” type, then why not tipperary…

it would actually be much easier, shorter and more viable for the majority of the country to attend a concert in this location, than the usual choices of either belfast or dublin….

@What wrote:

i swear its irelands only choice,
throw up your hands and raise your voice,

MONORAIL!!
MONORAIL!!
MMMOOONNNOOORRRAAAIIIL!

Casinos are a great money spinner no question but you have to say there are two types of Casino the first is City destination such as Las Vegas or Maccau which attract large numbers of high spending tourists who want to play the part of high flyer for the weekend or few days longer taking in caberet shows etc. These locations need time and more critically thrive on agglomerative economics which would be absent from this suggestion.

The second type of Casino is the one that locates in a City Centre and serves local demand or that of people visiting the City for other reasons. They do not attract people who otherwise would not have been in the City. They are ideally suited to development of a high end leisure district and attract investments in aspirational restaurants, night clubs and designer fashion stores.

If a Casino industry is to work it either needs to be of a local scale i.e beside a major racecourse with a number of existing Group 1 races such as the Curragh or Leopardstown or it needs to be part of a Tourism Ireland plan to over time deliver aggolomeration economies that cross pollenate.

With the involvement of local politician Michael Lowrey it really does take on a very surreal twist; I don’t think you could have made this one up; a few million square feet of high end leisure at Two Mile Boris in Tipperary.

So it requires Euro460 million in Tipp. Now compare that with Wales.

The first racecourse to open in GB since the 1930’s is Ffos Las, north of Cardiff ( see http://www.ffoslasracecourse.com/general-info/introduction.php )
It has both flat and National Hunt courses, sits on about 600 acres, (200 smaller than Tipp) on top of what was an opencast coalmine. Difficult terrain, there also were river contamination issues to overcome during its building.
Although it is a substantial operation, sadly, it does not have a White House replica. Maybe that is why it cost only £20 million??

Ireland, Mother Ireland, you’re rearing them yet!

K.

@PVC King wrote:

With the involvement of local politician Michael Lowrey it really does take on a very surreal twist; I don’t think you could have made this one up; a few million square feet of high end leisure at Two Mile Boris in Tipperary.

Two Mile Borris 🙂 . . . . imagine having to give your address as ‘Two Mile Borris’, . . . . that’s like living on Feckin Road, Termonfeckin, . . . you’d get a clip round the ear.

It’s a pity in some ways that they didn’t pick Knock, a place already on the looney tunes circuit, with the car parking, the airport, the other stuff :rolleyes:

A good few submissions on the planning file, including one form An Taisce .

According to RTE, plans to build a €460m sporting and leisure development in north Tipperary will be unveiled later today.The planned 800-acre development beside the village of Two-Mile Borris will be known as The Tipperary Venue. The ambitious project will include a racecourse featuring a National Hunt Track, Sprint Track and all-weather floodlit track. A 500-room hotel is also planned to incorporate a casino.

The chief investor is reported as Dublin-based businessman Richard Quirke.

No international airport but 2,000 jobs are forecast!. 😀

Rien ne va plus

Why would you need a airport, the maglev monorail will bring you straight there.

Why?

Why was there such a big plug for the Tipperary Venue on tonight’s RTE news with the planning authority’s decision due in two weeks?

I wonder if Mr. Lowry made a submission in favour of the development?

@PTD wrote:

Why?

Jesus, thought I’d gone senile and was unable to remember posting stuff yesterday but then I spotted it was my long lost cousin PTD.

How’s uncle Pat keeping?

@vca wrote:

Why was there such a big plug for the Tipperary Venue on tonight’s RTE news with the planning authority’s decision due in two weeks?

The decision wasn’t due until next week, but they actually made the decision early. A decision was made two frisays ago, 29th october.
It was a conditional grant of permission. A total of 63 conditions.

The Tipperary Venue -Mixed use Leisure Campus comprising: A) Demolition of all existing buildings on site comprising 5No. dwelling houses; 1No. derelict dwelling house; 1No. commercial warehouse/storage build; agric. outbuildings.Total GFA of buildings to be demolished is 2,872sq.m. B) Construction of: i) 500 Bedroom Hotel build. (80,577sq.m.) ii) 15,000 person capacity Venue Build. (23,362sq.m.-to accommodate sports, concerts & other events. iii) Equestrian Centre (5,872sq.m.) iv) Heliport (2,383sq.m.) v) 18 Hole Golfcourse & ancillary Golf Club Build. (3,462sq.m.) vi) Driving Range & ancillary build.(484sq.m.) vii) Chapel (255sq.m.) viii) 31No. Retail units (2,883sq.m.) ix) Hoban Memorial Build. (1,984sq.m.) to accommodate banqueting suite & museum with reproduction Lafayette Park & subterranean link to proposed Hotel Build. x) Grade 1 Race Course (c.23.5ha) & Greyhound Track (c.0.36ha) with shared ancillary builds. (40,358sq.m.) xi) Single Storey Energy Centre Build. (1,530sq.m.) xii) Treatment Plant (252sq.m.) C) Provision of all associated landscaping, boundary treatment & site developement works includ.: i) Diversion of existing site services. ii) Revised surface water drainage regime includ. diversion & culverting of parts of Derheen & Clover Rivers. Relocation of an attenuation pond adjacent to the Two Mile Borris Interchange. iii) Drilling for a potable water supply (on site) to serve proposed development. iv) Provision of 5743No. Car Parking spaces; 136 Bus Parking Spaces; 72No. Greyhound box spaces; 100 Horse Box Spaces. v) Provision of new 4-arm roundabout on R639 to serve proposed develop. Provision of emergency only access rd. with priority junction onto R639. vi) Link Rd. to connect R639 (via new 3-arm roundabout) to recently constructed Two Mile Borris Grade Separated Junction on M8 & construct 2No. slip lanes to complete the diamond interchange. Widening of approaches to roundabouts at Two Mile Borris Interchange to allow two way flow. Segregated left turn lane (on existing southbound diverge) to allow traffic to join proposed Lind Rd in a free flow manner. Termination of existing accommod. rd (on sth. side of new Link Rd) & new access onto northern side of link rd. for exist. accomm. rd. Total GFA of entire develop. 163,091sq.m. The Planning Application is accompanied by an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). A Waste Licence will be required in respect of this development

The conditions are all pretty straight forward from a quick glance. This is obviously going straight to ABP.

@Bren88 wrote:

The decision wasn’t due until next week, but they actually made the decision early. A decision was made two frisays ago, 29th october.
It was a conditional grant of permission. A total of 63 conditions.

The conditions are all pretty straight forward from a quick glance. This is obviously going straight to ABP.

This is probably only an extract from a bigger document, re their application, but can’t see any reference to a Casino?? Is this a seperate planning application, or do they have to seek a licence from a seperate authority?? If so how long does that take?

There is no such thing as a casino licence in ireland. And, there isn’t actually any need for them to list it in the description.
The casino would be, I imagine, a part of the hotel building. So that’s all they need to mention, it just becomes an area in the hotel, and wouldn’t be listed, like the restaurant for example. It would obvious shown on the plans, but I doubt it called casino anywhere, cardroom or members club would be most likely (as that is what it would be from a legal standpoint). Slots or anything like, might be a licence, but that would be no different to a games arcade getting through the process.

I like the way the UK deals with Casinos; there is a twin track aproach firstly a finite number of licenses and secondly a planning use called Sui Generis which in practice means it is a unique consent without a presupposed bundle of normal terms and conditions; the onus is on the applicant to prove the case as opposed to the obligation to prove compliance with a development plan. The Casino operators are in the right locations able to demonstrate that a specific location has economic benefits that outweigh local impacts.

There is a market for a few prestige casinos in Ireland to leverage the very strong sporting tourism market; I’m just not sure if bringing tourists there by monorail is ideal.

There’s a handy solution to all these megalomoaniacal projects;

Declare a massive area around Shannon Airport a free trade zone and stick your White House Casino, Athlone Chinese super trading hub and Dundalk ski slope all in this zone- no visas, duty free booze and fags etc. Not necessary to leave the zone- it’d be a Guantanamo- tastic location for gambling, ski jumping and buying xmas decorations in bulk.

Move Bunratty brick by brick to this zone and chuck in those replica high crosses from Collins Barracks and have ‘ de memeries of oireland’ super exhibition.

No need for new airports in Arklow or Tullamore.

Job’s oxo.

Stumbled across this recently. Interesting perspectives.
http://outofthestormnews.com/2010/09/22/private-building-codes-work-great-for-disney-would-anyone-else-want-them/

K.

Tougher regulation urged for super casinos

Wednesday December 22 2010

Any plans for Ireland to have its own Las Vegas-style development were dealt a blow today as it emerged the country is too small to support it.

But proposals to overhaul Ireland’s historic gaming laws found a super casino resort and leisure complex could create thousands of jobs and top up dwindling state coffers.

The consultation paper, Options for Regulating Gambling, added any development would be subject to strict regulation from a new independent body and on-site regulation.

The report, published by Justice Minister Dermot Ahern, said resort casinos would generate large-scale employment during construction and operation, when it could house up to 1,500 gaming machines, live entertainment, dining and refreshments spread across some 5,000 square metres of floor space.

They should also provide a high return to the state in terms of licensing fees and gambling tax revenue, it found.

Mr Ahern said his wish was to protect the vulnerable while laws are brought in to the 21st century.

“Our existing laws regulating gambling are not fit for purpose in this age of mass global communications,” said Mr Ahern.

“It is my wish that gambling regulation should be brought into the 21st century and that means improved protection for minors and vulnerable adults, more transparent operations by gambling providers, and more effective measures against fraud and illegal gambling and criminality”.

Ambitious plans for a super casino, sports complex and entertainment resort near the village of Two-Mile-Borris have already been approved by North Tipperary County Council.

The €460m project features a 6,000sq m casino, a replica of the White House, a 500-bedroom five-star hotel and an entertainment complex.

However changes are needed to the Gaming Act for the casino to obtain a licence to operate.

The project has been openly backed by Independent TD Michael Lowry – who maintained he made no demands on the issue when he agreed to back the Government’s controversial €6m budget.

Those in opposition fear gambling will rise, hitting the poorest communities hardest and spiralling more people in to debt. Members of organised crime will also have a means to launder money, it is claimed.

Other measures in Options for Regulating Gambling propose that responsibility for all gambling activities fall under a new unified regulator for gambling, headed by the Department of Justice, with local authorities having powers over planning and licensing arrangements.

Remote gambling over the internet, phone, and interactive TV should also be regulated under strict licensing conditions, irrespective of whether the product is offered from within Ireland, or from off-shore, it added.

Press Association

How could the support ofa clientist parochial pariah for a mono-rail style project, result in a usually balanced minister coming up with a throw the baby out with the bathwater type comment like the above. There is a future for Casinos in Ireland; just not because idiots like Michael Lowry lobby for them to be built in the wrong place. Given the difficulties being experienced by the horse racing industry why aren’t realistic locations like Leopardstown and Limerick being considered for a five year trial.

D. Ahern has his own pet project with ‘Altitude’ having a tack-on casino in Dundalk.

http://www.louthcoco.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=10102&LASiteID=0

A Letter of support on ministerial note paper is in the appendices of the EIS last time I checked.

A lot of posts with comments of all kinds.
Yet to me this is not really an architectural issue at all.
I see this thing as simply an issue of social morality.
That is, people want to allow society to go this way —
allowing people to make profits from glamourised gambling
and all that comes in its wake — or people do not want to
allow society to go this way.

Personally, I do not.

@teak wrote:

A lot of posts with comments of all kinds.
Yet to me this is not really an architectural issue at all.
I see this thing as simply an issue of social morality.
That is, people want to allow society to go this way —
allowing people to make profits from glamourised gambling
and all that comes in its wake — or people do not want to
allow society to go this way.

Personally, I do not.

That’s non-sense. Watching too many films.
Gambling is huge in Ireland. This proposal will have any mojor effect on it.
There are a huge amount of bets placed at horse and dog tracks on a daily basis. There are bookies in everytown, and they are taking a reasonable amount of money.
There are currently casinos and cardrooms in every city and large town in the country.

The proposal is nothing that isn’t happening here already on a daily basis

The promoter’s son, Andrew Quirke, has produced a tasteful video tour of his father’s house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIN_u8hkFA

No way is Quirke capable of funding this thing.
He is getting help from experienced gambling resort moguls thar lear, I believe.
Specifically who ?

Read this for a cute little mention of a meeting with the chief planner by
the Tipp Gomorrah’s new champion . . .

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0405/monaco.html

Wouldn’t it be cute if for the sniffable cost of a bi-annual fellowship to
Trinity (I make that around €50,000 every 2 years), Prince Albert got
what he was after . . .

The gombeens have turned Bórd Pleanála.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0613/breaking23.html

Only a High Court challenge can now stop them.

Best investment of €50,000 that Prince Albert ever did. :sick:

Hot Springs here we come.

I’m surprised that this thread has not been resurrected, given that the recent announcement of proposed changes in the Gaming laws has nailed its coffing shut. I always thought it rather strange that the media objections tended to be moral, rather than based on financial viability, and that neither side was less than opaque on the financial backing and viability.
K

The crass-scaled casino has been nailed shut.
But the other quite worthy and appropriate aspects of the project like the racetracks and the equestrian centre
are free to go ahead.
And I belive that they will go ahead since the land has been bought and the sellers have no doubt spent a good lot
of the money by now.
Then there’s the usual clamour from local contractors, hostelries, businessmen etc to go ahead with any new big
project that may benefit themselves.

If some of the big horse industry people support it financially as well as vocally it may have a good chance to
succeed without the casino.