North Lotts Developments

How does the recent court ruling affect (effect?:p) these developments?

They’ve completely stopped construction from what I can see!

Surely the development will eventually get the ok from the court or will it……???? its a great building,one of the best in the docks if completely built. Anybody have any info on whats happening next if the development has stopped!!???:mad:

One would assume it will prob get the go ahead eventually, but who knows? Anglo Irish may well be happy for the development to fall through given their current financial circumstances. The development itself was proposed to extend all the way down to the next (ruinous) building seen on the right hand side of the picture. To the left spencer dock block d, e and g are proposed by treasury holdings, there’s pictures of these elsewhere on the forum.

Attached is a few pics of what’s proposed next door! It would make for a very good vista if all was constructed.

Along with a few high rises it would be a great vista!!

Recent pic of the north docks, pity you only barely see the ncc roof from this angle. If the ncc was positioned to the edge of dock and pwc HQ pulled back from the dock, you be able to see the complete front of the ncc from the east of the docklands.:(

@donalbarry7 wrote:

One would assume it will prob get the go ahead eventually, but who knows? .

A new masterplan is currently being drawn up, it’d be a shock if it doesn’t include buildings of the height Carroll was building

johnnny21: doesn’t the fact that you can’t ‘see’ ncc from where you suggested just demonstrate what an uncoordinated mess it all really is? If anybody thinks this is what passes for townscape in a prestige area, then it’s not just a financial crisis we have. Whoever proposed that mis-shapen lump behind those period buildings should be done for sub-prime design!

Yes it is a bit of a mess!!!The ddda masterplans for docks were constantly changed because they realised they made mistakes everywhere from poor architecture, heights and landmarks etc etc!! But lets hope they learn from mistakes in future sites/developments. There 2008 masterplan might help sort some of the the mess out…!!!

@johnglas wrote:

johnnny21: doesn’t the fact that you can’t ‘see’ ncc from where you suggested just demonstrate what an uncoordinated mess it all really is? If anybody thinks this is what passes for townscape in a prestige area, then it’s not just a financial crisis we have. Whoever proposed that mis-shapen lump behind those period buildings should be done for sub-prime design!

It confirms that STW paid no attention whatsoever to what would adjoin their PWC fortress. That building is absolutely devoid of context.

Peter you are correct on the PWC building but now that most of the glass has been added to the front of the conference centre there is no doubt what the most dominant building is on this part of the liffey

Gaaaaaaaaaaah.

The pics shown are lovely.

But put another 10 storeys onto it ffs.
It just look pathetic to have these squarish building’s built all the same height. They just wouldn’t have this crap shits blocks in other cities. They wouldn’t spend millions on designing low rise city centre redevelopment plots. They just wouldn’t build this low on the city riverfronts anywhere else in the world in this day and age.

Look at many examples.
Rotterdam
Auckland
Sydney
London
Barcelona

Even cities in Eastern Europe are building high rises.

Many cities even smaller on Dublin are capitlising on building gleaming high rise towers on their grand riverfronts.

It was first all square box buildings in the first ,masterplan. After a few years, of the DDDA going, oh we’ve made mistakes on our first masterplan of the Docks. it’s was then changed to square box buildings with a few landmark towers. Oh great…………

NOW the DDDA are finally going ok, we’ve made mistakes again. We need proper high rise cluster towers in order to create a proper urban framework for this area within the city.

bla bla bla. Its like highracknaphobia in this country.

The buiildings are bland all being 6- 9 storeys ffs.

dave123: you’re just dead wrong and high-rise equates with neither high-density nor ‘modern’; I think you’re thinking of Oz as the ideal modern city (as in ‘The Wizard of…’) – it’s all fantasy and make-believe. The Docklands are (in part) depressing because of the badness and blandness of much of the design, but you can get bad and bland high-rise, and they tend to kill the street-life around them stone dead.

They’re not evil you know, high rises. If you stay perfectly still, they wont fall on you.

Just like constuction cranes? Oh, yes they do (eventually). And you know, if you lift your eyes somewhere between pavement level and infinity, non-highrises can be interesting.

Of course they can, NCC is beautiful, as is the GPO. I’ll just invert and reiterate the statement.
Cranes are not to be trusted, you know this john.

Superb photo – Thats a superb sky in that photo Johnny21

“NCC is beautiful”
I never thought I see that. After my previous attack on this lump of shite and the abuse I got in return, I really should let it go, but I’m afraid I can’t, the NCC is a crime against all the sensibilities I hold dear, it’s nothing short of a travesty. I’m not a conservationist by any stretch, and I’m not against big buildings, but I saw this from Merrion Square recently and it’s a fucking disgrace, Kevin Roche has done nothing of interest since he won the Pritzker Prize in ’82, it’s like something a 1st year architecture student might present as their first house design, but it’s been blown up to the point where it ceases to be funny, and the fact that it then gets built, is like a bad dream.
If a crude, overblown, glorified, gimic by a has-been is now what passes as architecture then I want out.
But, yes nice photo Johnny21… photomerge CS3?

not sure if this is in the right thread as I’m not that familiar with the Docklands…but the Sean O’ Casey Community centre is looking great

http://ireland.archiseek.com/news/2008/000269.html

Alrady posted on the “East Wall Community Centre” thread.

@spoil_sport wrote:

“NCC is beautiful”
I never thought I see that. After my previous attack on this lump of shite and the abuse I got in return, I really should let it go, but I’m afraid I can’t, the NCC is a crime against all the sensibilities I hold dear, it’s nothing short of a travesty. I’m not a conservationist by any stretch, and I’m not against big buildings, but I saw this from Merrion Square recently and it’s a fucking disgrace, Kevin Roche has done nothing of interest since he won the Pritzker Prize in ’82, it’s like something a 1st year architecture student might present as their first house design, but it’s been blown up to the point where it ceases to be funny, and the fact that it then gets built, is like a bad dream.
If a crude, overblown, glorified, gimic by a has-been is now what passes as architecture then I want out.
But, yes nice photo Johnny21… photomerge CS3?

Tastes vary I guess, I do not know how you are not more offended by PWC, there’s a travesty. Maybe you’d feel better about the ncc if it wasnt in such a crap context?

no cranes to be seen i see,they have gotten use to walking around the fair city on there own now

@johnny21 wrote:

New thread for the sites between spencer dock and point village…..cant find suitable thread to post msgs on these sites so it deserves its own thread. Just adding a pic of whats currently under development and sites yet to be developed along the north quays…..!! liam carrolls development progressing well:D:D Render of the anglo irish bank hq development.:cool::cool:

Great pic up top.:)

i agree, in about ten years time you should go back to that point and take another photo.It would be great to match the two and see the changes

Latest picture of the ncc and north lotts

:eek::eek::eek:

God that PWC building is an absolute disgrace… How could the “designers” have thought that a fire escape core was an appropriate facade to the public space in front of the NCC?? Revolting…

Pwc HQ is horrible and sticks out like sore thumb.Ruins the spencer dock and north lotts area……. Cut off all the chimney stacks, might make it look at bit better!!!!!!:eek::eek:

The height between the ncc and citigroup building(and the rest of the buildings along the docks of the ifsc) is stupid……why so low???answer; the ddda’s great plan:rolleyes:.:mad::mad:

DUBLIN’S CITY HIGHRISE PLAN
Dublin City Council will have new principles for locating high-rise buildings in Dublin put before them at a meeting tomorrow. Earlier this month, council planners published a review of densities and heights in the city, detailing 15 locations where high-rise buildings are permitted. The review lays out the criteria for developers seeking to build in each of the 15 locations.

The council’s strategic planning committee will vote on a draft variation to the development plan as the first step to including these locations into the Dublin City Development Plan. The principles dictate that buildings of 16 storeys or more will be permitted in only five areas of the city, including the Docklands, Connolly Station area, George’s Quay, the Digital Hub and Heuston Street area.

Buildings of eight to 15 storeys will be permitted in a further 10 locations, including, Phibsborough, Grangegorman, the ‘north fringe’, Clonsaugh Industrial Estate, Ballymun, Pelletstown, the Dublin Industrial Estate near Cabra, Ballyfermot, Parkwest/Cherry Orchard, and the Naas Road near the intersection of the Long Mile Road.

From architecturenow.ie

Shouldn’t that go in the Highrise thread?

Also, could you cite your sources in future, please?

@johnny21 wrote:

Pwc HQ is horrible and sticks out like sore thumb.Ruins the spencer dock and north lotts area……. Cut off all the chimney stacks, might make it look at bit better!!!!!!:eek::eek:

The height between the ncc and citigroup building(and the rest of the buildings along the docks of the ifsc) is stupid……why so low???answer; the ddda’s great plan:rolleyes:.:mad::mad:

Can you elaborate on this please? Do you have more details about why the skyline exists in its current form?

@ctesiphon wrote:

Shouldn’t that go in the Highrise thread?

It relates to this dockland area thats why i put it in this thread.I could put in highrise thread…….if needed.

@phil wrote:

Can you elaborate on this please? Do you have more details about why the skyline exists in its current form?

If you look in the picture above you see the height difference between the buildings on the left of the NCC/PWC HQ. Buildings on the left only 4/5 storeys(why when its in such a prime area should the height be restricted to 4/5 storeys high, 8 or 9 storeys should be more appropriate for that area, should it not??) and the NCC and PWC are 8 storeys plus. The reason why the skyline is like this because of ddda’s plan for ifsc area was wrong in terms of height!!!

Which plan do you refer to? Have you done any research in to the economic or social context in which the IFSC was constructed? Also, I am not sure that they are all 4 to 5 storeys. Clarion Quay apartments are about eight storey’s aren’t they?

@phil wrote:

Which plan do you refer to? Have you done any research in to the economic or social context in which the IFSC was constructed? Also, I am not sure that they are all 4 to 5 storeys. Clarion Quay apartments are about eight storey’s aren’t they?

The plan is the Custom House Docks Development Planning Scheme. All im saying is that the ddda got the heights wrong, the height difference between the custom house docks and north lotts is wrong, as you can see from the photo the two areas dont blend. Yes the Clarion Quay,Mayor Square and other apartment buildings are 8 storeys high but are more or less the same height as the office buildings.

Does this mean that the height difference between the new Spencer Docks buildings and the retained rail freight buildings don’t blend either? I am failing to see why you use words like ‘wrong’ and ‘stupid’ in relation to the heights of these buildings when you don’t seem to have any real background information on the planning context of this area.

I have to say the PWC building is a real shocker, dull and grey, blends into the sky on a cloudy day, depressing really…and blocks views of NCC from east.

Regarding the height of IFSC I & II its obviously too low in urban design terms fronting the reiver given its width and the greater height that will undoubtedly be achieved at Spencer Dock wil unbalance the whole stretch as it suddenly steps up, albeit not by much.

Personally I love the PWC building. Those cut off chimneys give it a wonderful zoomorphic quality – somehow reminds me of a fox. Great sense of movement too – it seems to be moving out towards the river every time I see it. It’s certainly better than the other STW building across the river which is very blocky, static and lacks any sort of character.

If you want bland look at the building to the left of the NCC. Looks like it was designed in the 50s

Ncc Pic!!!

@PTB wrote:

Personally I love the PWC building. Those cut off chimneys give it a wonderful zoomorphic quality – somehow reminds me of a fox. Great sense of movement too – it seems to be moving out towards the river every time I see it.

Can I have some of whatever youre on PTB? 🙂

I guess it shows how everyone sees things differently. Personally I think that the entire Spencer Dock development including PWC is utterly devoid of any architectural interest and ranges from bland at best to downright ugly and opressive at its most visible. The STW scheme across the river is at least a unified and elegantly resolved building, not a collection of disparite facade treatments like PWC. Even the little white building to the west of NCC doesn’t shout out it’s shortcomings in quite the manner of the PWC monstrosity.

Carrolls office on the north wall quay is to go ahead.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/carroll-can-keep-block-1595578.html cool:

Its probably one of the better looking ones in the area.

@archipig wrote:

Its probably one of the better looking ones in the area.

YES,by far in the whole docklands area…..!:D

any pics?

Retention order for office block
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0108/1230936761667.html

@alonso wrote:

any pics?

Architects are Traynor O’Toole, details on project page under office development. http://www.totarch.ie/ Thats the only pic i have but more detail on website.

I don’t think Ms Justice Geoghegan will take kindly to that to be honest.

is Anglo Irish even still around? aren’t they in serious financial trouble?

@johnny21 wrote:

Architects are Traynor O’Toole, details on project page under office development. http://www.totarch.ie/ Thats the only pic i have but more detail on website.

Surely thats speculative whether it will turn out like that now?

The city council gave Mr Carroll’s North Quay Investments a retention order for the building which means the structure can be kept as it is but that planning permission is needed for further work needed to finish the building

@jdivision wrote:

I don’t think Ms Justice Geoghegan will take kindly to that to be honest.

Why do you say that? From what I remember reading, she expressed the opinion that Caroll is entitled to apply for retention permission.

On the NCC center, love or hate its design – and it seems people will only do one or the other – I myself am rather disappointed with the stuff they have chosen for the cladding of the main block. I work on SJRQ and have it opposite me all day, and when it rains, that pinky-beige stone looks like it has massive sweaty armpits… The whole thing looks really awful in the rain and I can already see it aging quite disgracefully. Will try to get a pic next time there’s some rain – not that that ever happens in Ireland, right? 😀

@poukai wrote:

On the NCC center, love or hate its design – and it seems people will only do one or the other – I myself am rather disappointed with the stuff they have chosen for the cladding of the main block. I work on SJRQ and have it opposite me all day, and when it rains, that pinky-beige stone looks like it has massive sweaty armpits… The whole thing looks really awful in the rain and I can already see it aging quite disgracefully. Will try to get a pic next time there’s some rain – not that that ever happens in Ireland, right? 😀

Indeed, very true Poukai. I dunno why architects choose meterials that don’t weather very well in this damp Irish climate.

@JoePublic wrote:

Why do you say that? From what I remember reading, she expressed the opinion that Caroll is entitled to apply for retention permission.

But there’s another case before her in relation to the building. In addition, the DDDA basically lobbied for the retention and Dublin CC broke its own planning guidelines to allow it. They rejected the original plan, which is still the current plan, based on a DDDA objection don’t forget.

Here ya go, forgive crappiness of photo, but it gives you a pretty good idea of how horrible the cladding looks… Reminds me of a 1960’s school look.

Sean dunne has appealed the go-ahead from DCC for liam carroll’s anglo development.

Actually, I have only just noticed the tiny garden shed that seems to have been erected on the roof (on the right on pic), I’m guessing for the workers to have a cuppa in. Love it! Wish they would leave it as a permanent feature 😀

@jdivision wrote:

Sean dunne has appealed the go-ahead from DCC for liam carroll’s anglo development.

Did it receive go-ahead permission, wasn’t it just retension permission of the existing skeleton?

Retention plus completion was granted

Treasury holdings have revised plans for spencer dock buildings DE,PQ and interesting highrise plan for north wall quay beside the 02, Designed by Pritzker prize winning architect, Zaha Hadid!!!

To coin a phrase… she canNOT be serious!

@johnglas wrote:

To coin a phrase… she canNOT be serious!

Haha, true that.

please excuse my language, but fuck that looks cool:D

Even if it wont be built!

holy lamplight batman!!! that is one amazing looking tower. Are they serious about it? conjsidering these difficult times? Sure would be a giant leap forward for Dublin kind.

Is it really supposed to resemble a pint ?

Umm, they just ripped it from the other side of the river:confused:

Is it just a nice mock-up plan or what might be done, or have they been asked to draw up designs for it as they’re willing to go ahead and build a high rise at this time?

@archipig wrote:

Is it really supposed to resemble a pint ?

to go with the keg;)
and the tap otherwise known as the bridge

Impressive.

All renders were taken from treasury holdings website in development and investment section. Wether they get planning permission or not is another thing, but in line with ddda plans for 7/8 100m highrise buildings at the docklands!!!!!:cool: Highrise plan is Replacing there old plan for the site.

wasn’t a fan of the old proposal just a big glass block basically but the pint glass thing is definately impressive. Hope it goea ahead

The ‘Pint-at-the-Point’?

Sorry, couldn’t help it.

(c) Gerrit Gillespie Photography – Buenos Aires, Argentina

Ten years of bullshit proposals for ‘Landmark’ towers around the city. Why couldn’t we just have allocated one area in the North Lotts for highrise? So much bickering has left us with nothing but low density business parks.

Ten years of bullshit proposals for ‘Landmark’ towers around the city. Why couldn’t we just have allocated one area in the North Lotts for highrise? So much bickering has left us with nothing but low density business parks.

Maybe its not too late Morlan, there is still alot of land on the north lotts for future high rise development!!!

Lol, love archipig’s pint allusion, and missarchi’s keg which the nat convention centre does resemble in such context.

In fairness folks, this is never going to be built and we know it. Worse actually than realising it’s not going to be built would be to grant it permission knowing this, which would up the speculation value of the land – and nothing at all would get built, as an unrealisable price gets fixed to the site.

Still, the drawings looked nice 😉

Die pessimist -_-

Tbh though, the market here is not forever dead, odd to see so many people reacting the way they are when recession is such a natural part of the capitalist philosophy, it even serves a purpose – an important one. This recession may be worse than others, but in the long term its just part of the process. This may be hard to accept when your job is on the line, but when we’re talking about shiny pint-objectified runner-up jewels as above, its not totally inconducive to their development which is long term also. Might not be built soon, but the market will inevitably recover and with it will developers appetite for profit-making ego-boosters, which is a sure thing, and this tower just happens to cover both bases.

Dont get me wrong, I am not a proponent of the ultra-capitalist model, I believe in Europes semi-socialism. I also use too many hyphen-words 😛