Cafe Bars the new architectural challenge
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http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0415/alcohol.html
Government to create ‘cafe-bar’ licence
15 April 2005 22:11
The Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, has announced that the Government intends to create a new ‘cafe-bar licence’.The licence would require qualifying establishments to provide hot food on the premises as well as alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks during opening hours.
It is one of the proposals to be contained in the Intoxicating Liquor Bill.
The main purpose of the Bill is to streamline licensing laws by repealing all 600 existing provisions and replacing them with one Act.
All retail liquor licences will now go through the District Court, a new nightclub permit will replace the current exemption order and there will be new arrangements for theatre licence provisions.
The new cafe-bar licence will be available for premises smaller than 130 square metres and will cost less than the going rate for pub licences.
A cafe-bar would operate under the same opening hours as pubs.
Mr McDowell said he hoped the development would help encourage a shift away from binge drinking and would counteract the trend towards super pubs.
The bill does not propose any significant changes in opening hours. A public consultation period will now follow until the end of May. ENDS
What an opportunity this presents and does anyone have any ideas on what design styles will feature or what will be the must have details of our new class of social venue?
I think it is a fabulous idea – the thought of of drinking alcohol for hours in a pub without food is just too unbearable
to contemplate. But it will all depend on the quality of food offered, the ambience and the type of alcohol offered –
I personally like Belgian beers and also some of the superb micro-brewery beers produced in Ireland.@DublinLimerick wrote:
I personally like Belgian beers and also some of the superb micro-brewery beers produced in Ireland.
Ive really taken to Belgian beers since they started giving away free Pints of Stella lately, and the porterhouse has always been great even if it is at the mass-market end of the micro-brewery concept. The thing about the porterhouse chain is that they are still designed like pubs.
I reckon that the prescriptive limit of 130 sq m is going prove a real challenge for designers, given that the building design guidelines will probably be framed in a way that discourages standing areas and features restaurant/cafe style layouts. Now if all pints were the same price as Stella lately I’d say fair enough but at the guts of 5 euro a pint and 12-15 for food you do expect a little more design quality and comfort. I hope that this concept can deliver.
Yes, I agree Thomand Park. A cafe/bar should NOT have the same design/layout as a pub. and I’m sure this can be
done – it’s certainly very successful in Italy and elsewhere in Europe. Quality food and drink, and value for money would make the concept a success. Incidentally, I’m not against pubs per se, but I do like choice.Unfortunately the regulations are prescriptive to 130 sq m whilst Beweys is 920 sq m at ground level alone, the idea behind the regulations is to discourage super-pubs and ensure that people have some food while drinking.
The decision on the former planet hollywood restuarant was delivered during the week in favour of the super drink barn, it is to prevent this happeneing again that the regulations have been passed. It will ultimately blur the lines between bars and cafes which should be a good thing subject to each case being judged on its merits.
Re The Clarendon I would have no objection to a few more of those appearing a stunning job and a visionary investor to put the money down for such a spec job.
Agreed, a fabulous design. But just in terms of the Clarendons operation – it should be a bar… but it’s not. It should be a restaurant… but it’s not. You have people dropping in for a coffee next to a table being served dinner next to someone nursing a pint. A worthy template.
DD I’d think you are totally correct in terms of the type of usage that architects will have design around and I would imagine that this type of layout over a couple of floors will be what will emerge complete with tables in the street for seasonal use.
If there was a must see before doing a cafe bar the Clarendon would be it
@Thomond Park wrote:
Unfortunately the regulations are prescriptive to 130 sq m whilst Beweys is 920 sq m at ground level alone, the idea behind the regulations is to discourage super-pubs and ensure that people have some food while drinking.
Maybe a few few different ones could be set up in different rooms like the food court thing on liffey street.
That said i’ve never been in bewleys.i think its a great way forward and not only will it promote more socialising but it will enable a variety of food now to be served as immigrants can avail of the new licensing laws. As anyone who has been abroad will know , the selection and variety of cheap food is always possible when immigrants who are less educated and speak less english have the opportunity to open and rent a small place to provide sufficient income to their families.
Manstein, I’m not sure if you are trolling or not, but your post sounds rather odd to me. Bear in mind that many immigrants are not “less educated” for a start.
On the broader topic I think McDowell is ill advised to suggest the main outcome of this measure will be less drunkenness. It is clear from ths speedy hostility of the publicans (and their sanctimonious anxiety about alcohol abuse) that their real concern is the impact on prices and profits. Their opposition would normally be enough to cause me to embrace the proposals. Cheaper drink and cheaper soft drinks – yes please.
However, given what Thomond Park said above, and from my limited knowledge of the regs relating to health and safety alnd licensing of kitchens in this country I’m sceptical of how profitable small cafes will be if they have to jump through the existing set of requirements. Most of the Italian cafes McDowell hankers after would surely go bust if they had to conform to the regs applying to Irish hot food venues. I’m sure others have more expertise on this aspect though?
I don’t understand -what is the proposed change?
If you have a small cafe you can get a wine and beer licence. So what’s new? Is it that the cafe doesn’t have to serve the alcohol with food? Also, I would have thought that the real hurdles to opening new bars are planning permission and property prices.“Manstein, I’m not sure if you are trolling or not, but your post sounds rather odd to me. Bear in mind that many immigrants are not “less educated” for a start. “
My reading of the post was that he was talking about immigrants who were less educated, and not implying anything in general about the education of migrants, although why this entrepeneurial opportunity does not also apply to less educated Irish people is not determined. Maybe Irish people can’t cook.
“If you have a small cafe you can get a wine and beer licence. So what’s new? Is it that the cafe doesn’t have to serve the alcohol with food? Also, I would have thought that the real hurdles to opening new bars are planning permission and property prices.”
I see nothing new here. There are pubs – or at least there were – which had cafe licences, and gave free sausages out occasionally to meet the terms of the “cafe” part of the licence. Nice sausages too. And real cafes can serve alcohol already.
in fact reading the report again it seems that all they are doing to streamlining legislation and the reporter picked up on this “new” feature which isn’t.
I don’t those that are causing trouble and fights on the streets will really be interested in these establishments anyway, i don’t think mcdowell has the first idea what the real problems are.
Mob79, it is about cultural change – something that takes generations to change, but the conditions for cultural change have to be put in place – the rewards are long-term.
Manstein’s comments are ambiguous (yet also aggressive). Perhaps the last thing we need in our country is rhis kind
of agenda.
The hope is that we can achieve a civilised society and surely no-one can dispute that architecture can play a defining role in this process.apologies if my comments seemed aggressive. i meant to refer to immigrants who had less qualifications and my choice of “less educated” was badly choosen only . on the record i for one welcome the new multi-cultural ireland having just arrived back after 3 years.
Please do Belgian style cafe bars – just back from Brussels and the whole experience was fantastic. Imagine being in places you can talk in, get a seat (no standing), get decent waiter service, places that attract families, couples, people reading papers, someone in for a bite to eat, or a coffee, or a beer – the whole experience is a pleasure. You would sit and nurse a drink for up to an hour rather than pour it down your throat (less agro later perhaps) – good call Minister McDowell, good call.
Oh and the beer & food is great and a good beer will only cost about €2,50
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