proposed changes to stephen’s green
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I work for The Sunday Tribune newspaper, I am working on an article on the proposed changes to St. Stephen’s Green. I read some of your postings in relation to Traffic and Transportation Strategic Policy Commitee report and was hoping some of you might be interested in contributing to my article.
Is the proposed pedestrianisation of Stephen’s Green West an opportunity to improve and develop a landmark Dublin ammenity or is it an ill-conceived/ad hoc planning proposal that will cause traffic gridlocks and general frustration?
– Helen Murray, The Sunday Tribune
Originally posted by Helen
Is the proposed pedestrianisation of Stephen’s Green West an opportunity to improve and develop a landmark Dublin ammenity or is it an ill-conceived/ad hoc planning proposal that will cause traffic gridlocks and general frustration?Your question touches on three main points, Firstly when was this plan conceived, Secondly will it work and/or be retained and thirdly if it is retained in its current format what will the result be in terms of planning gain for the pedestrian.
No one except John Fitzgerald and Owen Keegan really know how long this has been on the agenda. But in my opinion the traffic load has been excessive on Stephens Green West for about two years, ever since it went from 4 lanes to 2.
It is in my opinion a move of necessity to try alternative routes for the existing traffic, they don’t have an option because 2 lanes will ensure gridlock.
Secondly will it work, the major stumbling blocks will be Loretto parents double parking on Stephens green east to recycle their little darlings. This they can do with four lanes but not with two under the proposed format. More seriously will be the banning of the right turn at the end of Harcourt St for public transport. The forced turn into Cuffe St will prevent all Ranelagh/Dundrum and Rathmines/Terenure/Churchtown buses from entering the core shopping areas of Stephens Green and Dawson St.
It is a no win situation for buses as after they turn right from Cuffe St to Aungier St the stretch from Whitefriars down is gridlocked already, it will render many buses immobile for a minimum of 10-15 minutes during peak hours. It also raises the question where do you put the new bus stops?Thirdly if the plan works it will provide an excellent Civic Space, allowing one to relax when crossing from Stephens Green to Grafton St, there have been many pedestrians who in a daydream have drifted in front of traffic over the years at this location, one child was tragically killed by a cyclist.
The real question is what is of higher value another civic space entirely free of traffic or the efficient operation of the 14/14A 15/ 15A 15B 44 48A and only public transport disturbing pedestrians.
Another proposed option for buses that currently use Harcourt St is to re-route along Hatch St and then along a contra flow bus lane on Earlsford Terrace to St Stephens Green East. I think this is the best solution. Between the DCC and BAC the re-routing of buses can be successfully integrated into this plan with out pissing off bus users, which is of utmost importance, and with out the need for busses to use the north west corner of the Green.
After years of car centric policy it’s about time some street space is reclaimed for the weary pedestrians and cyclists of Dublin. The safety improvements speak for them selves but also the civic area it will create is what Dublin sorely lacks at the moment and will become a great public amenity, with shouts of why didn’t they do this before.
DDC may have had their hand forced on this but at least they are making the right decisions and putting the car last on their list of priority. I think the DCC are on the right track and with a few tweaks like changing the direction of traffic flow on Hume St and Ely Place this will work and all modes of transport, cars included, will benefit.
For those who haven’t seen the proposal here is a link to the Briefing Note on the DCC site http://www.dublincity.ie/traffic/green.htm
I agree that the Earlsfort Terrace contraflow seems an attractive option for buses. You could even have a bus-stop outside the NCH.
Well done in spotting the consultation notice, blue.
I see it announces a deadline for comments of Friday week. Spread the word to interested parties!
Edited to add:
I think its pretty amusing and illustrative of the non-strategic approach that the consultation is entitled and promoted on the Director of Traffic page as Reconstruction of St. Stephen’s Green West
rather than “New Transport Strategy for the SG area” or something similar.The Earlsfort Terrace route seems the best option for buses.
What is important for the newly pedestrianised area is that it reinforces the demarcation between the island effect of the Green in relation to the roadway rather than simply creating a sprawling spilling over effect from Grafton St to the entrance to the Green.
It could be potentially messy to have the roadway coming from Merrion Row with the Green clearly defined all the way along, and then to have it stop at a dead end with acres of granite replacing it after Dawson St. There is a nice avenue atmosphere along the Green North at the moment that would be a shame to loose.At the entrance to Grafton St I propose a vast baroque water feature of carrera marble featuring Neptune holding aloft a giant bowl from which water would spill over bronze mermaids and maidens, in turn flanked by 16 storks jetting water into sea-shells held by groups cherubs – all in honour of Mr Clerkin himself.
The perfect partner to the Stephens Green Centre 🙂
Originally posted by Graham Hickey
The Earlsfort Terrace route seems the best option for buses.
There is also the option to Make Hatch St Upp & Lower one way from Harcourt St to Leeson St and make Adelaide Rd one way from Leeson St to Harcourt Rd leaving Earlsfort Terrace as it is.
Originally posted by Diaspora
No one except John Fitzgerald and Owen Keegan really know how long this has been on the agenda. But in my opinion the traffic load has been excessive on Stephens Green West for about two years, ever since it went from 4 lanes to 2.It is in my opinion a move of necessity to try alternative routes for the existing traffic, they don’t have an option because 2 lanes will ensure gridlock.
I think that the traffic load on SGW has been excessive for 5/6 years. Ever cycled around it? And tried not to be funelled down Dawson Street by the motorised traffic? It’s very difficult. The “wasted capacity” of most of the rest of the Green should be utilised. Creating a new pedestrian friendly plaza at the top of Grafton Street is a prize worth trying for.
Let the pedestrianisation go ahead, but open a new road throught the heart of the green from Harcourt St. to Dawson St.
All of the problems will be solvedThis turned into quite a good article in the Tribune last Sunday.
Bottom line is that there was no planning at all for the project and, worse, the city Council does not even seem embarassed about that.Pity the Tribune does not publish its content on-line.
i bet if its gets pedestrianised they’ll be a ocarrols irish gift store put on it
are you suggesting the sunday tribune got the story from hear.. or did they quote the site without credit?
Originally posted by Rory W
Posting guff since ’99😀
Yes
Big changes on the Green. Great to see “planning on the hoof”.
1. The choke point where Hume Street joins the Green, put in , oh all of three / four months ago, is now being dug up and it sems to be being removed. This “improvement” caused traffic jams back to Merrion Street, but perhaps that was what it was supposed to do?
2. The traffic island on the Leeson St / Green junction is now partly removed also.
Yeah it won’t be long now and they’ll be rebuilding the freshly laid island at the junction ofSt Stephens Green South and West.
Yeah it won’t be long now and they’ll be rebuilding the freshly laid island at the junction ofSt Stephens Green South and West.
They’re still working on building this island, to have it ready for the official opening of the Luas in June. They in July/August they will have to dismantle it to allow for the new traffic flow. What a waste of tax-payer money! How do these officials get away with this? What incompetence!
Roadworks on St Stephen’s Green to reverse traffic flow and restrict movement
Joe HumphreysDublin City Council has set Sunday, July 4th, as the date for the introduction of new traffic arrangements at St Stephen’s Green.
Mr Brendan O’Brien, the council’s head of technical services in traffic, said the management plan outlined last month on the issue would go ahead with only minor alterations, leading to the closure of part of St Stephen’s Green West and a change in the direction of the traffic flow.
Mr O’Brien stressed that the changes were being introduced on a temporary basis to facilitate roadworks on St Stephen’s Green West. If they were to become permanent, he said, there would first be a round of public consultation.
Under the plan, cars will no longer be able to drive around the green. Instead, the traffic flow will be reversed along St Stephen’s Green East, from Earlsfort Terrace to the Shelbourne Hotel.
There will be two-way traffic along the south side of the green. However, all traffic coming down Harcourt Street will have to turn left.
Temporary barriers and signposts will be installed in the coming weeks to direct traffic along the route. Cars travelling from Cuffe Street to Merrion Row will be worst affected as they will have to travel anti-clockwise around the green before looping back via Dawson Street, Molesworth Street and Kildare Street.
The council will consider reversing the traffic on Hume Street and Ely Place, allowing cars from St Stephen’s Green East to access Merrion Row more easily.
However, this has been ruled out in the initial phase of the road works, which are due to take up to eight weeks. Under this first phase of works, St Stephen’s Green West will be closed up to York Street. Cars will be allowed to access the Royal College of Surgeons/St Stephen’s Green car parks via St Stephen’s Green North. Under phase two, the route between Glover’s Alley to Dawson Street will be closed to traffic, creating an extended pedestrianised area.
The council is hoping to undertake this second phase of works immediately after the first. But Mr O’Brien conceded that if the new arrangements were found to have caused problems it could come under pressure to postpone phase two until next summer.
One of the few changes to the original plan is to allow buses turn right at the top of Kildare Street onto St Stephen’s Green North, to facilitate feeder services to and from the Luas. On St Stephen’s Green East, there will be a contra-flow bus lane allowing buses to travel from Kildare Street to Leeson Street.
Buses travelling in the opposite direction will have to join ordinary traffic lanes, however.
The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) said the roadworks would not disrupt Luas services or delay the start of the light rail scheme on June 30th. The agency’s board is due to approve plans to allow pensioners travel free on the service tomorrow.
However, an RPA spokesman said: “Until the board formally signs off we are not in a position to go through the detail.”
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