Carroll plans huge Dublin pub project
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Carroll plans huge Dublin pub project
11/05/03 00:00
By Neil Callanan
Developer Liam Carroll is planning to build a major pub on Capel Street in Dublin.
If approved, the existing buildings on the site at Numbers 21-24 will be demolished, and a five-storey over basement public house will be constructed on the site.
The directors of Oze Developments are Carroll, David Torpey and John Pope. The planning application makes provision for a 4,302 square metre public house.
If the figure is correct, this would make it the largest pub in the country. The site also has frontage onto Upper Abbey Street and Jervis Lane.
The Capel Street area is witnessing a surge in the number of licensed premises.
I thought that the age of the “Super-pub” was gone. This must signify the dawn of the age of the “Hyper-pub”!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who cares!!! NO NO NO!!!! Not another one. All the problems these premises have caused have been well documented here and elsewhere. Aren’t ‘they’ just in the porcess of completeing a superpub in the old St Marys Abbey on Jervis Street? Aren’t there a rake of pubs already on this street? There MUST be more to regeneration that pubs!
Capel Street has only five pubs at the moment. Starting at the river, you have Nealon’s and GUBU on the first junction and then the Boar’s Head on the next, then Slatterys and the Four Seasons at the very top of the street, though technically, it may be on North Kins Street, i’m not sure exactly.
The site in question has a planning application lodged by O’Mahony Pike, if its the site i’m thinking of. So who knows, maybe we could get a pretty good job on this one.
Lets face it – Henry St. could do with a few pubs to give it some life after 6pm.
There should be a few on Henry St. to give it life after 6pm. There is one pub on Moore St. but that closes in the early evening because there is just no business or people around after that time.
Cleansing, delivery and maintenance shoud all be done at night – but they are not. they are done in the morning. So at the moment there is a large and eerily quiet street off O’Connell St.
Nothing can be done with Abbey St. until all the Luas and whatever else is finished but yes, it should have life too.
With no major residential developments on Henry St. and Abbey St. (so no complaint about noise) they are perfect for dual purpose shopping by day/cafes/restaurants/drinking by night – it should improve the profile of the Northside too. I’m not talking about a huge number for certainly enough tostrech life all the way from O’Connell St. to Capel St.
Pubs give great life to areas and can be used to great effect – though small, more intimate pubs rather than super-barn soulless pubs.
As an aside, I’m looking forward to the Wetherspoons – finally the novel idea of price competition in the Dublin pub market within what will be a fairly decent bar (from my experiences of other Wetherspoons) – how clever.
Isn’t there a plan to cover Moore St. and (part of) Henry Street?
This could lead to different types of night-time activity.
1. Well managed pubs and restaurants that are allowed some external activity.
2. An unused covered set of streets, which would quickly become a problem area where people are afraid to enter.
Hmmm… A wonderful Bazaar type area to attract people all year round or an extension of the GPO Arcade…..?
I’d well believe it – I think one of the senators was calling for an enquiry into the price of drink after being charged €11.10 for a rum and coke in the Earl of Kildare (nee Powers) Hotel – their reason being “it’s after 11pm”. Amazing how these things are only noticed when somebody ventures outside the (subsidised) Dail bar.
Incidently €5.15 for an Erdinger in Ron Blacks – not even two pints for a tenner anymore!
Guinness won’t be that impressed by Wetherspoons though – they are not planning to stock any Guinness products (meaning Guinness, Bud, Carlsberg etc etc.) due to their uncompetitive prices and will be sourcing a lot of the lagers, stouts and ales from England and the continent – so expect Stella and maybe a couple of Czech beers.
Although I can’t say i like Wetherspoons as is – they really are what Dublin need.
I have heard about the plan to cover Moore st. but not in a while. It would eb great to have an all-weather al-fresco nightlife area in Dublin. It could do an incredible amount of good for that area.
But I think it would be essential that such an area have a nighttime aspect to it – whether than be a cinema, theatre, restaurant, cafe and pub – ideally all of the above between Moore St. and its side streets and lane, most of which are currently desolate both day and night.
It would introduce something new and could benefit Parnell St. – it can be lonely trek from Conways pub to UGC for a late night show at the moment even with that apartment block beside the Ilac.
JC Wetherspoon; Stella and some Czech beers? More like Alec Gilroy, swirley carpets and blingiddy fruit machines along with Hearsay playing in the background and all this with the foul taste of warm wee! It doesnt bare thinking about.
Anyway if Michael Mc Dowell has his way we’ll all be in bed by 11 with warm milk and cookies. Even President McAleese proved she can still speak by jumping on the conservative bandwagan and stating that ‘too many young people make a connection between fun and alcohol’, erm yea?
Also can we honestly expect Witherspoons to be cheeper. Not a hope they’ll resist temptation to rip us off when everyone else is doing it, paisley carpets are expensive these days you know.
Wetherspoons have made their name on decent prices and I’m just basing my expectations of them on my experiences of them in London and even on Whitehall just off Trafalgar Sq. the Wetherspoons is pretty decent priced in a town where prices can hit the roof.
I hate the English pub model with its gambing machines (in particular) but don’t you think you’re accepting a bit too much of the stereotype when it comes to warm beer – you don’t get warm lager.
You take a lot of cheap shots – lets see if they are competitively priced – if so, they will be a first in Dublin.
I take your point about Mary McAleese and McDowell though – but I wouldn’t give them much chance of rolling back the progress of opening hours (not do I hope they make progress either).
Wetherspoons aren’t as bad as that! I have been living in Glasgow for a while now, where they have opened 3 new Wetherspoons pubs recently, in the city centre. They are very stylishly finished, no swirly carpets in sight. Also, they have a policy of not playing any music, which I think is great – I’m not hoarse the next morning from having to shout to make myself heard. And the prices are great. I’m glad they’re opening in Dublin, I might be able to afford a drink in town the next time I’m home…
Somehow I can’t see cheap shots and drink deals going down well with the media or the authorities in this ever more hysterical environment.
I do welcome the chance to not spend more than a fiver on a pint though. I remember ordering two Erdingers in Tom Reads last summer and it was such a watershed moment – I handed over a tenner and got an expectant look for more coins! My how those days seem so much more affordable!!!Here is the weatherspoon website in their design section. To be fair they seem to see design and conservation as part of what they do so fair play to them. And yes – no music allowed, and I didn’t see any of the fruit machines (I’m not sure if they are legal in pubs here anymore).
http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/pages/body01g.html
PS: I have heard it reported that the pint price for Ireland will be €2, so nothing wrong with that.
€2 – yeah right! Cheaper pints maybe but Wetherspoons is a business not a charity and once it realises it can get a large market share by offering slighter cheaper beer then it will pull out all its corporate stops! But forget about €2 pint….. maybe when you get to the great big brewery in the sky!
That’s the end of that…
fromhttp://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=302&si=1039793&issue_id=9739
UK chain pulls out
UK PUB chain JD Wetherspoon is putting its property at 121-122, Capel St, Dublin up for auction on 2 October through joint agents CB Richard Ellis Gunne and Van de Berg (UK).
The UK group has decided to defer its decision to locate in Dublin for the forseeable future.
While no reserve has been disclosed for the sale of this large shell unit, a price in excess of €2m may be on the cards.
Originally posted by Rory W
And don’t forget the old Forsyth & Forsyth furniture shop which is currently going through the planning process for a JD Weatherspoons pub – hooray for warm beer – but at least it will be €2 a pint which cant be bad in counteracting the pub price inflation problem.and €7 for 2 dinners (based on a recent experience in London of 2 dinners for £5).
what do people think of the new market bar off georges street? it seems that every architects office in dublin converges on the place on a friday evening,all huddled together in their teams. the place is actually nice and restrained as far as design goes, sorry was, until they put up big tacky gold lettering all over the place. what what..
bad news about woodenspoons tho.could have done with some warm beer.and if you like standing around in grandmas sitting room listening to steps and wishing you had the space to lift your pint to your mouth, then most other pubs will do. i dont seem to remember when a 50ft long bar became considered small in dublin?
If you like standing around in a glorified warehouse, shouting to be heard over the noise of several hundred people in one open-plan, bare-walled space, and taking 20 minutes to get served at a very small bar, the Market Bar is for you.
Well you could be talking about any of the superpubs around town – all of which are as ghastly as the next. Why can you not have a consversation in a pub anymore – do we have to get deafened everywhere and since when do people want to stand for the whole night – after a long day at work there’s nothing I like more that standing for 5 hours. I used to think I got a sore throat from smokey bars but its actually from roaring at my friends to have a conversation with them. I say issue 100s of new licences with a cap on the size of the places and turn the musak down.
Its official – I’m old
Careful there, daring to suggest that standing, screeching into the ears of your friends in an overpriced, soulless shed designed to maximise drinking space at the expense of anything resembling confort for the punters may not be an ideal night out.
Re the Market Bar –
-However long the bar may be, there isn’t enough of it to serve the kajillions of people there in on a Saturday night. In two hours there, I spent nearly 40 minutes getting two rounds in.-Loud music is one thing. Places like this are loud because too many people are standing around in an open space with bare brick walls and nothing to dampen noise. There’s an Emperor’s new clothes feel to places like this – if it’s packed and I can’t hear myself think, then it must be great.
Yes, many of the smaller, more traditional pubs are also overcrowded, but that’s because there aren’t enough of them in Dublin for a million people plus tourists. I agree with Rory W – more licences.
Dublin pub culture is literally dying on its feet with these standing room only drinking sheds -the once common place local is nearly gone only to replaced with the likes of the Kestral Walkinstown and other drinking blocks ala the Submarine Kimmage the Quay’s bar Temple bar and another one the Half Way House Navan Road – these ‘locals’ have become so huge that bouncers man all corners via radio linkup in an attempt to control the huge drinking frenzy that they create. RIP the once great and intimate Dublin pub environment.
the junction bar in camp, south of tralee. long night. got lost. three families were there, one of which owned the ploace. dogs, kids, babies, auld ones. immediate savings on baby-sitters and geriatric care. i was the most exciting thing that happened since the train crash before the war. now thats a pub
on a different note, possibly a d sharp, anyone ever go to campions on the quays towards the point before they knocked it to make way for the extended ifsc. great place too. you could walk up to the bar, announce where you hailed from, and some old coot would know your da from back in the day. seriously. randoms towns from louth, mayo, and cork were greeted with cries of “i built that town” and “i once tried to shag your ma” and such. thats whats missing in superpubs, being noticed and engaging with people in any sort of meaningful way, before getting sloshed on guiness and heading to zaytoon for breakfast of course 🙂
8.80 for a whiskey in coke in handels. buggrem
Give the mono age group a few more years and they wil be curious and search in vain for genuine Dublin locals and they will surely wonder how this destruction of what we were once famous for was destroyed by goverment legislation – the deliberate protection of the infamous publican cartel which sees local bars turned into supersubs.
Exactly we’re pissing away what makes tourists want to come here i.e. real Irish pubs (the ones with two taps – both guinness) and green landscapes (see Bertie Aherns lets build bunglows everywhere comments of 11/9/03).
Lets face it – who comes here to go to ‘Zanzibar’?
Or will tourist Ireland be found in the themepark for North County Dublin – ladies and Gentlemen, Faith & Begorrah – it’s Paddyworld
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