Definition of 'Curtilage'

Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby Confused » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:58 am

Can someone please give me the definition (for Planning Authorites) for the term Curtilage?

Thanks in advance
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby goneill » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:11 pm

According to the DoELG, the notion of curtilage is not defined by planning legislation (P191 Architectural Heritage Protection - Guidelines for Planning Authorities). The guidelines then attempt to define it as meaning the parcel of land immediately associated with that structure and which is (or was) in use for the purpose of the structure.
I think it means the property on which a building stands but the lawyers could probably pick holes in that.
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby missarchi » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:21 pm

I've seen it refereed to as something close or near too not just land..
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby KerryBog2 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:53 am

goneill wrote:According to the DoELG, the notion of curtilage is not defined by planning legislation (P191 Architectural Heritage Protection - Guidelines for Planning Authorities). The guidelines then attempt to define it as meaning the parcel of land immediately associated with that structure and which is (or was) in use for the purpose of the structure.
I think it means the property on which a building stands but the lawyers could probably pick holes in that.


Curtilage is an enclosed area of land surrounding the dwelling. Objectors love using it .... "the proposed development is within the curtilage of a protected structure" (even though you might be building a garage 100 metres away from a listed house!)
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby tommyt » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:14 am

[quote="KerryBog2"]Curtilage is an enclosed area of land surrounding the dwelling. Objectors love using it .... "the proposed development is within the curtilage of a protected structure" (even though you might be building a garage 100 metres away from a listed house!)
Rs

Yeah but said garage could be 100m away, but blocking a vista or deliberately designed view or setting of said structure no:confused:

I always assumed it was deliberately vague terminology to allow each planning application to be decided on its merits.
The guidelines here have more info AFAI remember (table of contetns only- click back for individual chapters)

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/Heritage/ArchitecturalHeritage/FileDownLoad,2202,en.pdf
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby Confused » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:49 am

Our development is a simple 21sq m extension to the rear of the house (but going beyond the gable wall passed the side entrance to meet just inside the party line between ourselves and our neighbour). We have been told that the 4sq m that goes beyond the gable end of the house is not exempted as it is not considered to the rear of the dwelling but to the side so we are trying to figure out (for the Section 5 application) if the extension is within the curtilage of the dwelling in order for me to answer one of the questions. There are no protected buildings anywhere near by.
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby goneill » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:07 am

If its on your land, which sounds likely, (i.e you didn't build it in your neighbour's land or on the street or something) then its within the curtilage
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby tommyt » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:23 am

Confused wrote:Our development is a simple 21sq m extension to the rear of the house (but going beyond the gable wall passed the side entrance to meet just inside the party line between ourselves and our neighbour). We have been told that the 4sq m that goes beyond the gable end of the house is not exempted as it is not considered to the rear of the dwelling but to the side so we are trying to figure out (for the Section 5 application) if the extension is within the curtilage of the dwelling in order for me to answer one of the questions. There are no protected buildings anywhere near by.


The simple answer to your question for the sake of filling out a form is 'yes'. From your brief description above though your developnment will not be classed as to the rear of the building and therefore is not exempt.
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby KerryBog2 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:25 am

tommyt wrote:
Yeah but said garage could be 100m away, but blocking a vista or deliberately designed view or setting of said structure no:confused:


Agreed, and I would support use of that in an objection. However, my point, badly made is that "within the curtilage" is another nail successfully used by objectors even when a garage has no visual impact on a protected structure.
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby KerryBog2 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:27 am

From today's Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0902/1224253663467.html

"The Dún Laoghaire Harbour Company began demolishing the derelict pier buildings two days ago. A spokeswoman for the company said it has received legal advice that the demolition did not break the planning laws...........The buildings are not protected structures, but Mr Cuffe said their demolition should not take place without planning permission.

“Planning permission is required. The pier is within the curtilage of the harbour walls which are protected structures and under the planning legislation it would be subject to the same protections.”

See what I mean?

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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby henno » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:35 am

"A spokeswoman for Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council last night said it did not consider that the demolition work required planning permission.".........
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby missarchi » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:56 am

I've been dealt a curtilage blow from a bridge before!
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Re: Definition of 'Curtilage'

Postby KerryBog2 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:54 pm

missarchi wrote:I've been dealt a curtilage blow from a bridge before!


That explains a lot! :)
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