college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Cathal Dunne » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:28 pm

Rusty Cogs wrote:The pedant in me shall point out that bats have good eyesight, on a par with humans and actually better in low levels of light. However, if the bat in question was shortsighted the fact that he would get about in fog (or any other climatic conditions) using sonar rather than sight would render their myopia as inconsequential to navigating.

(Friday fact for ya ;)



Ah now don't be getting technical with me - it's a metaphorical bat which I used for dramatic effect. On the subject of tactile paving - why can't they use the far superior variety which can be seen in the link above? The blind do need facilities for crossing streets but the ones in the link are far more tasteful and aware of their context than the rubbish used by DCC.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby fergalr » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:42 pm

Image

Sorry - it's hard to make out. That's one of the most important elevations in the country; the West Front of Trinity. It's hard to make out behind the trees and LED signage.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby GrahamH » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:29 pm

Yep, just incredible. It defies reason.

Should anybody hold the slightest doubt that the recent cack-handed treatment of College Green may just be an irrelevant conservation or heritage issue for those who get upset about such matters, amongst the many other developments yet to feature here include this brand new stretch of paving outside Trinity College on College Street. A previously near-straight run of antique granite sweeping around from College Green to the junction with the concrete paving after the pedestrian crossing at the top of the picture, an expanse of historic paving, probably along with the original pedestrian crossing tiles, has since been removed and replaced with modern granite. Why on earth was historic granite not put back?

Image

A miserable scrap of antique granite paving is now left stranded further up. Baffling.

If there is the faintest virtue to this particular mess, it is that the granite chosen here is vaguely rust-toned in the Dublin tradition, if still whiter. I wonder where it was sourced. It could be very attractive used on a large scale such as around the Green or Dawson Street.

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But absolutely incredibly, this too, even as good quality modern granite (not that it should be here at all) has been utterly mauled. This was it the evening it was laid with fine, elegant, crisp joints.

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This is what was done to it a day later!

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I kid you not. Cement strap pointing across the board, including over some of the historic granite.

Image


This is an absolute scandal that public money, invested in expensive public assets, is being completely wasted with the most appalling standards of workmanship. Is this what DCC claims: The quality of the work was monitored and checked and we’re satisfied with the finish on it?

Image

Shocking, shocking stuff. And of course a classic instance of where the visually-impaired's mobility is, very simply, impaired.

'Disability improvements' indeed.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:14 am

maybe the urban forum could have a "urban crimes top 10 list" and urban crimes tribunal to rival the PTRB that hords tens of millions of tenants deposits....
something along those lines;) they get given awards every year.
If they don't accept them the site does....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0801/1224251848790.html

anyway will a master plan come out of this that pleases no one but makes the right call?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:45 am

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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby lostexpectation » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:54 pm

so was this simply a rush job or something else?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Devin » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:40 pm

missarchi wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0803/1224251928761.html

Paving in Dublin city centre

Madam, – Elaine Howley, of the National Council for the Blind of Ireland, understandably highlights mobility concerns of the visually-impaired in the urban environment (July 31st). Any considerate society addresses these needs in a balanced and sympathetic manner, taking account of the requirements of both the individual and any special sensitivities the host context may have.

In the case of College Green, authorities were dealing with historic paving in the most architecturally important urban and civic ensemble in the State – one of the few spaces in Dublin of true European significance. This is a highly sensitive conservation area which demands the very best in design skills and craftsmanship.

English Heritage has outlined a number of ways of dealing with tactile paving in such contexts, stating: “Historic areas are more sensitive to the colour and types of paving used, so the standard red and buff-coloured concrete blistered paviors can often be inappropriate for their surroundings, being in close proximity to buildings of special architectural and historical interest. A sensitive interpretation of the guidance which incorporates both human and environmental needs is required.”

In spite of tactile paving not seemingly being required outside the bank, featuring two minor driveways in a pavement where the visually-impaired have right of way, a number of sensitive options were still available for consideration outside Trinity College. These include the recommended use of brass studs set into the paving or specially textured slabs of contrasting natural stone. In any event, the net benefit of this tactile paving has been cancelled out by the mind-numbing array of newly installed municipal clutter on College Green, which generates unnecessary obstruction for the visually-impaired, as well as markedly degrades the aesthetic quality of the capital’s flagship civic space.

Henry Grattan and Thomas Moore on College Street now stand in pools of tarmac, while both are surrounded by enough poles and traffic signal boxes to wade through the visual chaos like a Venetian gondola. A deliberate Continental design reference no doubt. The magnificent long-lost vista of James Gandon’s former House of Lords portico from College Street also remains concealed by a forest of scrawny trees, a situation that could have been corrected as part of the Bus Gate works. – Yours, etc,

GRAHAM HICKEY,

Dublin Civic Trust,

Castle Street, Dublin 2


Great stuff, Graham. Beats hissy rants on internet message boards, eh? ;)
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:18 am

Thankfully, the Master is otherwise engaged today. He went to observe the Dublin Bus Gate in operation last week. And liked what he saw. “Smoother than a trout’s crotch,” declared He, with a spring in his step. Suitably inspired, He’s gone to battle his way through the masses in Ikea to buy the wherewithal to build His own Beemer Gate. He’s planning to cordon off 14 square miles of north Kildare, from which He’ll ban whomever takes his fancy. As you can imagine, few vehicles will be allowed entry.

I’ve therefore taken advantage of His absence to hack into his laptop. Because I need to set the record straight.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/0805/1224252004782.html

where's the underground carpark?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/0805/1224252003524.html
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby hutton » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:58 pm

Graham Hickey wrote:Henry Grattan and Thomas Moore on College Street now stand in pools of tarmac, while both are surrounded by enough poles and traffic signal boxes to wade through the visual chaos like a Venetian gondola. A deliberate Continental design reference no doubt. The magnificent long-lost vista of James Gandon’s former House of Lords portico from College Street also remains concealed by a forest of scrawny trees, a situation that could have been corrected as part of the Bus Gate works.


Completely agree x 1,000,000%

Great letter.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:33 am

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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby StephenC » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:15 pm

Aaah yes, Bordeaux...read it and weep Dublin.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby GrahamH » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:34 pm

Where even the trams pull up symmetrically... And just think what a wirescape would do to that scene.

Aesthetics will always play second fiddle here - I suppose we must just live with it.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby johnglas » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:10 am

Gina Quin's piece was hardly earth-shattering, but was fair enough as far as it went; to my knowledge, parking in the city centre here is generally free Sat and Sun, to encourage the uses she advocates. But I always despair a bit when transport policy is dictated by the needs of suburban earth-mothers with FOUR weans who all need to be transported at the same time to the same destination for the same purpose in some kind of scaled-down tank. Why?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:47 pm

I'm not one to say this normally but in a 500m radius of this place how much in tax's would have been paid in the last 10 years and this is the urban realm we are left with...

the mind boggles...

paving with symbols not nothingness we need a spider web...
The kids would love it...

Image
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:49 pm

top up your skills

http://www.riai.ie/?id=7445
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby markpb » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:01 pm



The article is completely contradictory.

Now that a proper network of Quality Bus Corridors around the city is finally coming into place, bus journeys for commuters across Dublin will be more reliable and more efficient.


followed by

So how has Dublin City Council used its on-street parking policy to promote retailing, leisure activities and tourism to date? The answer: not very well. Premium parking in the city is a prohibitive €2.90 per hour


On street parking and bus corridors are anathema - you can't have cars parked in the bus lane and call it a quality anything. You only need to look at Camden St and Georges St after 7pm to see the effect on-street parking has on inbound buses. People commute outside of rush hour. Even if they didn't, if you make the bus system inefficient after 7pm, you dissuade shoppers from uses buses. What she's saying is that she should be allowed and encouraged to drive her car into the city centre at a cost to the bus system.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby hutton » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:46 pm

Gina Quinn wrote:The council is proposing to keep on-street parking charges high for day-long commuters but is considering introducing new lower rates during the day to encourage shoppers and tourists


Dumb bint.

The council specifically prohibits all day on-street car parking]Premium parking in the city is a prohibitive €2.90 per hour, with the last increase of 20c per hour added for no apparent reason late last year[/QUOTE]

Maybe if Gina was to check, she might find DCC had discovered a massive - and increasing - black hole in their coffers, arising out of small matters such as Bernard McNamara and Joe O'Reilly baling on the €900m social housing PPP, leaving DCC having to direct an emergency funding of €100m just to rescue some elements?

Gina Quinn - as Basil Fawlty might say, a "cloth eared bint"
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby hutton » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:48 pm

PS Maybe car parking in Dublin should have its own thread - this is getting somewhat OT!
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Denton » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:32 am

Nice to See CG now empty in the mornings.

Other than impending death from speeding buses you could easily just walk across it's open space, nay bother.


It is a great location for a public square/ Luas Interchange.

And to think if the Bank of Ireland was actually a Public building like it's historic origin then it would be open to the Green and offer even more space.


Dame Street and Westmoreland street also are important and spacious.


Large Pedestrain Corridor's connecting with the Extensive waste of development on OC would also help.

Connect all of the cities main Throughfares and pedestrianised area's.



I've read the odd statistic here and there that Grafton Street may see the largest footfall but see's less actual shopping due to it's more expensive nature. Where as Henry street, a far dirtier and just as crowded cousin see's a lot more shopping.

If all of them were connected with the Two wide street's of Westmoreland and D'Olier Included it could be a full on shopping and transport Corridor creating a Connected "City Centre".


Culture wise Grafton Street is the New "city centre" while O'Connel Street is the Historic one. If what lies in between recieved a connected development it would make a City Centre.



Also surrounding area's Deserve inclusion, Such as Temple Bar, "Temple Bar South" which despite not being on the map's exists with all it's back streets and connections between Grafton Street and George's Street/Camden Street etc.

Westmoreland Street, College Green, Parts of Pearse Street and D'Olier Street Also deserve to be connected and developed.

Hawkins street, that little bus filled lane should also see development.

The Entire Stiene Area should also be included. Ie DESTROY the god awful DOHC, Apollo house, and it's neighbours. That whole block, other than the Screen Cinema is a waste.

It could be a beuatiful Public space with amienaties instead it's a big brown box carton block that really doesn't belong there.

One Large nice glass tower on one side with a public space with shops surrounding it with a smaller promanade or balcony area above them with Cafe's and bar's surrounding the public space.

Turn it into a atractive place to wait for buses and to shop in the city centre. It also mean's theres more closer to the cities transport hubs instead of abandoned buildings, grotty towers and a few choice pubs.



With Just a bit of repaving, and even just 1 block of redevelopment you could reconnect all of this area and change it's importance and make it a city centre.

Luas service's would also help support such a development.:rolleyes:
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby StephenC » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:44 am

Eats Shoots and Leaves
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Yixian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:48 am

Denton wrote:
It is a great location for a public square/ Luas Interchange.

And to think if the Bank of Ireland was actually a Public building like it's historic origin then it would be open to the Green and offer even more space.


That would be fabulous... Any chance of any of that ever happening?

If Dublin lacks a civi square for rallies etc. no amount of rearranged shipping containers in the docklands is going to provide that, it'd have to be somewhere like College Green.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby missarchi » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:01 pm

The thing is we have planning applications related from O'Connell St to very close college green but we are being giving a very bog standard plan. If you ad one more application to this the hole area a Masterplan should be done...
We also have an application for tara
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Frank Taylor » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:24 am

Dublin City Council voted on Monday night to allow cars to drive through college green during the evening rush hour for two months from mid nov to mid jan. They also voted to allow free on street parking in 1380 spaces after 2pm in the city centre. The city manager stated in his report that he could find no evidence that the bus gate had been the cause of a reduction in sales in the city centre shops.

So there you have it: Dublin City Council's plan to encourage people into Dublin is to transfer road space from public transport to cars and to stop charging for parking spaces that were previously filled by fee paying drivers.

In previous years there was an acknowledgement that the roads could not take the Christmas rush and that people were to be encouraged to use public transport during the busy season with temporary P&R facilities created. There was also an acceptance that charging for parking led to a higher turnover of spaces and availability of parking for those willing to pay. The alternative is that the spaces fill with people abandoning their cars for 10 hours+ while they work an evening shift or hang out in their mates apartments. The streets fill with cars cruising around for free spaces.

I'm very disappointed with the council. Motion was carried 35 to 11. Mostly it was supported by FG/Labour and opposed by FF (surprisingly) and some labour reps and independents like Mannix Flynn. The council seems to have caved in following legal threats from car park owners, an unproven fear that some of their larger ratepayers were losing money and pressure on Labour from their Union paymasters, representing staff in Brown Thomas.
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