Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:29 pm

Liam is in hospital it appears. He is not the only one who has found the last couple of months tough going. What a desperate saga this has all turned out to be.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0814/carrolll.html

I couldn't help but feel a number of the main people in his company had given up. But instead of admitting it, they were still hanging on for the sake of it. That is what happens when the person at the top gets too tired. That was a big part of the problem. It is a funny thing, how companies can turn sour in such a short space of time. When the leader isn't quite what he or she used to be.

I know there was enough manure thrown by most everyone in the end. It was indeed, a sorry situation I walked into back in 2006. It really required a new boss to help straighten out a couple of characters. Someone who didn't owe it to anyone, for years of service etc. Liam simply wasn't the man he was ten years ago, or he would have done it himself.

I am glad KPMG are finally involved though. That is the best bit of news I have heard in a long time. At least they will ensure an orderly and civilised approach to the disposal of whatever is left.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby wearnicehats » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:15 am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0815/breaking81.htm

Robin Williams sketch re Gadaffi:

you cross this line you die

(steps back)

you cross this line you die

(steps back)

you cross this line you die

(steps back)

you cross this line you die

(steps back)

you knock on my door I not coming out
wearnicehats
Senior Member
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:38 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:17 pm

I am delighted to see the guys coming out and getting their photo took. Especially with the guys there from KPMG. That is a wonderful sign in my view. With Liam fronting the organisation there for so long, they never received credit. You wouldn't believe how much Dave Torpey and John Pope are respected and liked in the Irish construction industry. I know if you are an architect, that is a different matter. You might have many arguments against their business model. But in terms of the construction industry, those two men have everything in the world to be proud of.

John looks like he would rather be in the pup at that hour though.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:41 am

Written by Emmet Oliver of the Sunday Tribune yesterday.

Risk concentration is one of the most obvious systemic threats that risk officers and, in an ideal world, lending officers, are supposed to guard against. Put simply, no bank should ever have a customer on its books that could imperil the whole institution. Alternatively, the banks together should never allow any customer grow to such a size that he or she has the potential to pull down the entire system.


http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2009/aug/16/too-much-money-too-few-developers-bank-meltdown/

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby henno » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:02 am

garethace wrote:Written by Emmet Oliver of the Sunday Tribune yesterday.



http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2009/aug/16/too-much-money-too-few-developers-bank-meltdown/

Brian O' Hanlon


shoulda, woulda, coulda...
henno
Senior Member
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 12:07 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby jdivision » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:07 am

garethace wrote:I am delighted to see the guys coming out and getting their photo took. Especially with the guys there from KPMG. That is a wonderful sign in my view.


I doubt they were willing participants as such Brian. Torpey hasn't been in court much but both of them were hanging around the courts after hearings in order to avoid the photo being taken, this time they were nabbed going in though. That photo looked likei t was taken on the Luas tracks so I suspect they thought they wouldn't be seen by going in the backway.
jdivision
Senior Member
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:34 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:13 pm

-

Comparison with Silicon Graphics.


The thing to remember about Zoe, it is a real 'engineers versus the world' kind of story. That is the heroic side to it. That is why money only served as a 'proof of concept' rather than anything else. Zoe never knew how to handle money, and had very little desire to learn how. Beyond what was needed in the strict present tense to get by in terms of construction management. It may be helpful to compare the Liam Carroll story to that of another billionaire across the water, Jim Clark, the founder of Netscape. What motivated Jim Clark was a desire to have more money than Larry Ellison. I wonder who the Larry Ellison figure in Liam's imagination was. Maybe it was Larry Ellison himself. To be honest, I have no idea what kind of 'role model' it could be.

Jim Clark started as a very talented though poor engineering student at Stanford in California. He invented a new microchip for processing computer graphics while still at university. Jim decided to set up a company based around his intellectual property known as Silicon Graphics. That company was valued at a billion dollars at its peak. (Due to government provided stimulus into large scale computing projects) No mean achievement for a first company startup.

The problem was, as Jim struggled to keep the company going, he had to look for fresh rounds of finance from the Valley venture capitalists. Eventually, Jim had gone back to the VC's so many times for additional finance, that Jim ended up working in a company he founded and built, but did not own anymore. He had a few thousand share options he received as company CEO. That was all. Jim Clark next got into something new and adventurous. Jim wanted to start a new company and hold onto more of it, than he had done at Silicon Graphics. Jim noticed a pattern in the Valley whereby, engineers would start up companies and eventually lose them to financiers.

Jim embarked on something to do with TV set top boxes. It was some early concoction of internet commerce, buying stuff using your TV set. Everyone was watching Jim Clark to see what he would do next. Everyone thought, well if Jim Clark thinks that TV set top boxes are the future then why not do that? The set top box idea was meant to be a decoy and it served its purpose. VC money poured in from every angle into TV set top box development and fortunes were wasted in the process. Unknown to everyone in the industry, Jim was a million miles away from that and working with a small group of engineers on his own 'stealth project' which would become Netscape.

Jim Clark never managed to hire the top of the class engineers at Netscape. He was contented to work with something less than the best. The best engineers back at Silicon Graphics were reluctant to take a chance on something as risky as a startup company like Netscape. So Jim Clark made do and eventually they shipped a working product. The rest of it and the inital public offering of shares is well known history by now. But Jim Clark always knew he had limited time to exploit the web browser market. At some stage, the behemoth in the personal computer market, at Redmond, Seattle would wake up and smell the coffee.

While Jim Clark was still at Netscape he was holding conversations with his old engineering buddies at Silicon Graphics. Things had gone from bad to worse at his first company and his old buddies were disappointed they had not taken a leap of faith and joined Netscape from the beginning. Jim began to devise a new plan for his third company. The concept was to provide a web of interconnected services between all hospitals in the United States. When Jim's third company floated on the stock market it achieved a valuation of a billion dollars. Some of the original engineers from Silicon Graphics were on board and delighted to be worth so much money.

I suppose the Jim Clark story is characteristic of the dot.com madness in a lot of ways. But it still contains many aspects which can shine a light on the story of Zoe developments. At a certain stage Zoe became too 'visible' in the tiny market that is Irish property. Eventually, Liam Carroll couldn't sneeze without it alerting half of the construction world on this tiny island of ours. We can criticise a lot of business people who take the money and run away from Ireland to startup abroad in larger markets. But when you look at the Zoe developments story, could you blame them?

My guess is the Dalymount 'buy an option' deal is doing a nice job to provide a decoy, for another development not far from Phibsboro. A development which hasn't been mentioned in any news articles I have seen recently. These are the lengths one is driven to, in order to do any kind of business in Ireland. You have to play a game of 'hide and seek' with everyone else. Nothing is what it seems to be. Nothing is transparent and open, or ever will be. One wonders has Ireland paid the ultimate price for too much smoke and mirror playing?

Even though venture capitalists are not the ones who supply finance to the property business in Ireland. There was no shortage of vultures willing to consume what little wealth a group of engineers had managed to gather together within their company. Like the Netscape affair, there was only a limited amount of time that Zoe was ever going to last in the Irish context. Eventually, people were going to wake up, smell the coffee and come in hot pursuit. But Zoe was nonetheless an ambitious and daring undertaking for a group of non-descript engineering types.


Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:48 am

Has everyone got their Zoe flags and buntings ready for tomorrow? Did you hear? We are going for another lap around the track in the clapped out banger we still call a company.

As Junk Bond King Mike Milken in the United States once correctly observed, even badly run companies with the worst Feng Shui, Karma and whatever else are incredibly difficult to eliminate.

http://www.mikemilken.com/articles.taf?page=37

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:44 am

I take the point Patrick Coveney makes in today's Irish Times newspaper.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0820/1224252951982.html

That sound and stable Irish companies such as Greencore who are not drowning in debts at the moment, will end up being direct competitors to NAMA. But what Coveney doesn't appreciate fully, because it is nice to be sitting in the position he is in today, is how different his reality could be. Especially on a day when Zoe are hoping to win one last desperate gasp for air. At Zoe, we couldn't wait to get our claws on the 'Mallow West' project. Our consultant architects were lining up around the block, in order to work at discount fees, because they knew projects such as this were coming down the tracks. As far as Architects were concerned, receiving a phonecall from Liam Carroll was like talking to God. That is why the experts never dared to question anything.

Coveney if he is amongst the group of clever young and upcoming Irish business people I believe he is, should look at this from a different angle. As an opportunity to study and question the whole paradigm of how Ireland Inc. operated for the past decade or more. Only then will Greencore understand the real wealth underneath its feet. For too long, Ireland has been struggling to find a way out of the 'reality distortion field' which was created by Bertie Ahern, Liam Carroll and other prominent Irish figures. What Coveney doesn't understand is how close he came to being another 'historical archive' chapter in a Frank McDonald book. Greencore can justifiably breath a sigh of relief today. They managed to dodge a bullet. But how they make use of this breathing space is up to them.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby Rusty Cogs » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:01 am

garethace wrote:As far as Architects were concerned, receiving a phonecall from Liam Carroll was like talking to God. That is why the experts never dared to question anything.


I can't say I see the hand of God in any of Carroll's developments from an architectural viewpoint. Maybe he never found a capable professional to match his divine vision.
Rusty Cogs
Member
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:10 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:16 am

Rusty Cogs wrote:I can't say I see the hand of God in any of Carroll's developments from an architectural viewpoint. Maybe he never found a capable professional to match his divine vision.


You could be very right on that score Rusty Cogs. Thanks for the comment.

I borrowed the phrase from a biography about Robert Noyce, one of the original founders of Intel Corp. Robert Noyce started out in the microchip business working for a fellow named William Shockley. Shockley shared the Nobel prize with two others from Bell laboratories for having inventing the transistor. Which later became the building block for the semi-conductor industry we see today. When Noyce received a phone call (a job offer) from Shockley, he said it was like picking up the receiver and talking to God.

Later on however, Noyce and his other brilliant colleagues who worked to set up a company for Shockley began to understand him more and realize that Shockley was useless at running a business. Shockley was obsessed with his own ego. It is an interesting story, that of Intel. Bob Noyce and Gordon Moore went through a considerable amount of learning to get to their eventual success. I hope that some of the architects who worked for Liam Carroll can see into a brighter future. One with a lot more promise and prospects.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:27 pm

You know, this side of the story had to come out some time. It might be late, but it is better than never at all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0820/breaking41.htm

A legal representative of employees of Royceton said they also support the application.


That is good news.

We have to make a firm legal distinction between Liam Carroll and those employees. (In terms of where peoples' basic rights do stand) It is good that the guys at Royceton will have their day in court. It is the least they deserve for many long years of service. It was their hard work which was behind everything at the Zoe group. Even though in the end, Liam Carroll didn't appreciate their efforts. Royceton was the central 'nerve centre' of operations. It was 'mission control' for Zoe developments and required an intense amount of social interaction and cross disciplinary team working. Socializing was never one of Liam Carroll's strongest attributes.

Towards the end, I was disappointed to listen to professionals who work for Liam Carroll making small of the contribution of Royceton down through the years. I told someone that Royceton had gained a human resources staff and a full functioning health and safety department. That and much more was achieved by David Torpey and John Pope who received a modest annual budget from Liam Carroll. I was told by professionals who had become very close (much too close) to Liam Carroll and his development business, that anything Royceton would attempt could not amount to much. They were lazy and inefficient I was told.

Having worked for Royceton myself, I could never accept that was the case. I received messages not so long ago from individuals working closely with Liam Carroll instructing me to shut my gob. Which only gave me more reason to get to the bottom of this mess. I knew that a 'false history' of Royceton was being constructed for a man who could not distinguish between fact and fiction. Liam Carroll was a man, we know was under huge stress. Liam had stopped visiting Royceton, was keeping very private and to himself. For a while I did my best to act as go-between. That never worked out, but I did get a view of the situation from both sides.

I think it was the unique innovations that Royceton brought into construction, and their efforts at forging a relationship with Danninger, the building side of operations and a whole network of sub-contractors, that was the real value of Zoe. Everything else, the ego massaging done with bank credit and adventures on the stock market, was secondary. Everyone wanted to get in on the action and be at the centre of Liam's enterprise somehow. I even met Seanie Fitzpatrick once in a draughty Danninger portacabin. But it is the achievements of Royceton, in terms of one human being helping out another, that will stay in my memory for a very long time.

Good luck to the guys in Royceton on their day in court.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:43 am

An old guy I know for a number of years, who is always complaining about everything came out with a sensible point to me, not too long ago. He reckons that Ireland should have been taxing itself more when it had the money during the boom, in order to give itself more relief now that things are against us. In fairness, the Dermot Desmonds of this world aught to be contributing in the right way to the country in which they do their business. But we need our leadership in the country to step up to the mark also.

The Fianna Fail policy during the Celtic Tiger does show us, how wrong you can get government economic policy, even during good times. Ireland's downturn has been so severe, that it is struggling to come out of it now, the way the rest of the world is. Valuable time and resources that could be used in re-building will not be available to Ireland as a result. Still we are talking about making Bertie Ahern president? It is time we did get some sense.

Elsewhere, Mr Kenny also told the summer school that Ireland failed to prepare for the future during the good years of the economic boom.


http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/kenny-says-fg-will-vote-against-nama-bill-1866615.html

I read somewhere in yesterday's newspaper that Ireland is still in 'rescue mode' when it should be planning to go into 'recovery mode' instead. The security of oil supply issue is only one example of where Ireland has to get a debate going, on how to cater for the prospect of global energy shocks in the future. I read earlier in the week, that oil trading is climbing again on foot of a possible global recovery. I hope that my summary of Minister Eamon Ryan's February 2009 report, that I issued to Zoe developments this morning, will find its way into consideration by the courts in the appeal case.

The Zoe interests in Dublin Port lands will be of crucial importance in fast forwarding the solution for oil importation and storage on the island. The Irish government will look to spend up to €300 million on new national oil reserve facilities. A collaboration with Zoe in terms of acquiring the land would be a major benefit. At present Ireland's oil dependence is only 0.2% of the EU total and much less of the total global dependence. But in proportion, Ireland is a lot more vulnerable to shortages in global oil supply than many other places in the world. For instance, before Christmas 2008, one of Ireland's leading petrol retailers ran out of supplies altogether!

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:41 pm

The old banger completes another lap! Who would have guessed that it had the minerals! Get the fire extinguishers out.

The High Court has granted permission for the hearing of a petition for court protection for seven companies in the Zoe development group while it puts a rescue plan in place.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0821/breaking35.htm

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

I think that ACC bank have done the Irish nation a profound service in their legal advances thus far. Without them, the Irish people would never have gotten a true picture of the inside track about NAMA and property developers. However, I think there is a bit more to the story that people do not see.

Most of the Irish news commentators had it wrong about Liam Carroll. Carroll wasn't buying Irish Ferries shares for the land resources. Carroll had done enough building to satisfy anyone for several lifetimes. Carroll was in seek of an easier way to make millions. Something with a lot less trouble and a lot more profit. Something that could generate millions of Euro of rental income per year. Maybe it would involve a 'public-private partnership' deal with the Irish government.

Liam Carroll had borrowed an idea from his old friends in the Jurys Doyle family. The same family who managed to fleece the Irish taxpayer for a fortune. This is not like the M50 motorway though. This is the main pipeline for oil supplying Ireland. The rental income from such a deal would make everything else in the Zoe court case look like the peanuts.

The fact is Ireland has no security against global oil supply shock events. The recent Buncefield accident in Great Britain was calculated to be a once in four hundred year event. But it happened and it happened in our lifetime. It took a full year for chemical experts to figure out how to go in and clean up the mess, to deal with the contamination from the explosion and fire. That was a full year during which the Buncefield plant was out of commission.

Imagine that was to happen to the oil supply for Ireland? Now you get some idea of the importance of those Irish Ferry shares that Liam Carroll purchased. Britain was lucky, it had alternative ways to bring oil and petroleum products into the country. Ireland does not. If Dublin port goes out of commission, the country is up the creek without a paddle. There would be no coming back from that economic disaster. Now you can see why Liam Carroll held such a precious ace up his sleeve with those Irish Ferry shares.

Everyone has had their own speculation about the 'strategy' of Dutch owned ACC bank, in pursuit so vigorously of Liam Carroll's €130 million debt. Why worry about such a small sum of money? But my guess is that ACC bank would have bee-lined for the Irish Ferries shares owned by Liam Carroll. ACC bank had figured out a way to convert €130 million into a lot more. Ireland will be sourcing its oil from as far afield as Rotterdam in the future. Rabobank would have no shortage of Dutch companies willing to buy its stake in the Irish shipping gateway.

The Green Party minister Eamon Ryan has published the 180 page experts report last February. To deal with the issue of security of oil supply. Now that minister Ryan has got the report, has he got what it takes to make the deal on behalf of Ireland and buy out Liam Carroll's shares? I believe David Torpey has had more than enough by this stage. Judging by his body language on the way to court these past couple of days. Myself included, as a past employee of Zoe developments. I have lost all patience with things. We want to get back to doing what we know best. It is as uncomplicated as that.

All attention has focussed in recent months about €90 billion the government is willing to pay for bad bank loans. How about €130 million for the Irish Ferries shares that will give Zoe the money to deal with ACC bank? It is time Zoe got done and dusted with ACC bank. I don't want my grand children's grand children having to buy out some bad public-private partnership agreement with some Dutch oil and gas company. Lets try to pass on something useful to those unborn children besides the €90 billion bill we are already loading them with.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:44 pm

€130 million was lent by ACC bank to Liam Carroll. That much is known. They want it back. That much is also established. I suspect Liam Carroll was ‘handling’ the Irish Ferries shares on behalf of someone else. Someone like a Dutch oil and gas company who didn’t want their presence known.

The fact that Liam Carroll had gone on such a buying spree on so many other land-related investments provided a good smoke screen to the whole plot. At the opportune moment ACC bank would have flooded more capital into Liam Carroll’s companies which would have enabled Carroll to buy the Irish Ferries company outright. Obviously, it had to appear to the newspapers as if it was a struggle. But Liam Carroll was the hot tipped favourite. We know that much also. The fact that Carroll has a history of conducting 'hostile takeovers' in the past, made him the perfect collaborator. The plot was even easier to hide under our noises. Liam Carroll was the perfect camouflage for a Dutch oil and gas company.

The events on the Mayo coast served like an effective diversionary tactic. To draw peoples’ attention from the eastern side of the country where the deal was really happening. The Mayo events served to tie up whatever resources the 'concern groups' in Ireland could muster. Lets face it, there were a lot of hot flasks and ham sandwiches made to support troops on the west coast. All the time, Dublin port was wide open to attack. That is where the attack was to take place. What strategic importance has Mayo in anything? Its only real value is to distract attention from our real vulnerable point. An international Dutch oil and gas company would have known that. The peasant Irish obviously did not.

There is a Napoleonic kind of genius to the ‘battle plan’ when you look at it. The Dutch multi-national has been doing this all over the world. Why not in Ireland too? They practically invented the game. They know the sequence backwards. But when the Irish property bubble collapsed, the Zoe group threatened to fall over and collapse. Liam Carroll's days were numbered. He would be taken out of the picture. Something had to be done fast in order to preserve the plan. The deal was off as far as ACC bank were concerned. They moved in for the kill.

It wasn’t the miserable €130 million they were worried about. It was the much larger and more strategic picture, which has eluded most of us until now. ACC bank’s main priority was to secure a receiver to ‘receive’ the Irish Ferries shares so that the plan could continue in some shape or form. The necessary business was all transacted under the watchful eyes of judges, politicians, news media and the public citizenry of Ireland. It is important to note, in all of the above, a pretty basic and hard working construction group were drafted into service by a foreign owned multi-national. The honest and straightforward chaps at Royceton, whose day jobs had always been their priority, found themselves wrapped up in something much larger and more complicated than they could understand.

But Liam Carroll understands it. He is one of the most brilliant men I have ever come across. But with Liam Carroll, his own financial wealth and prominence seems to have come first. We have to make that legal distinction now between the honest, hard working men and women at Zoe developments and the game playing that playing above their heads. To say that some were involved, or in-the-loop or knew something is very debate-able. I sometimes wonder why we bother with a government in Ireland. Perhaps the country should run on auto pilot. If and when the An Taisce group get to the bottom of the Liam Carroll case, all hell will certainly break loose. I respectfully suggest that the government moves to manage the situation before then.


Brian O’ Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby foremanjoe » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:28 pm

I'm sure what you're saying is insightful, garethace, it's just not very condensed.

Frankly the sight of the length of your comments puts me off reading them, which has the knock-on effect of putting me off reading anything that has your name beside it.

Is it that you just like the sound of your own keyboard?

Apologies for the personal nature of the comments, it's just that seeing a forum like this with so many encyclopedic comments from the one person gives it the appearance of a blog rather than the forum that it is intended to be.

Maybe you should just start a blog, see how that goes for you?
foremanjoe
Member
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:57 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:36 pm

Foremanjoe,

You will find the blog entries at Designcomment. It was linked in the first post of this thread. I take all of your points above. I wouldn't expect most people to read through most of what is above. I also appreciate that my thread is taking up too much prominence on the message board here. I apologise for taking up the space. But there is sort of an emergency happening. When hurricane Catriona hit New Orleans, a couple of quick and dirty solutions were set up online.

The most worrying thing in Ireland's case, is the lack of clear information. The Irish journalists do read what is written above - the only people with the time and career description to do that. I think I am about done now. I am not a journalist and have no desire to make it my career. There isn't much left to comment on from my point of view. Once the issue of the Irish Ferries shares has been taken into account. The court case should run its course now. Whatever will be, will be. I am fed up with the whole thing.

Thanks for posting your comments. I do appreciate them.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby foremanjoe » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:41 pm

Good man, that's fair enough.

Do carry on then, I'd hate to see what would happen if we had too many idle journalists on our hands!
foremanjoe
Member
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:57 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:50 pm

Well, you see blogging is a form of journalism. That is my understanding of the weird and wonderful world of blogging. A guy with a dictaphone and a camera phone can be on the spot faster than a real journalist could. We exist in a world, where the cost of publishing has fallen to zero almost.

The other side to it, something un-earthed by Chris Anderson, a Wired magazine editor in his book called 'The Long Tail' is that bloggers might know a great amount, about something very detailed. In other words, journalists have to cover a huge territory. But bloggers can focus in on the micro-scale.

With the result that you get a synergy of efforts these days, between bloggers and journalists. There isn't any journalist out there, in Ireland who could justify the expense and work involved in knowing as much about the Zoe company as I would. He or she would literally have to work on the inside and know the industry. On the other hand, I don't understand or follow much outside of what I know. Which is quite limited.

From my point of view, I would rather that Zoe had continued doing what it did. I never posted or blogged an iota while I worked for Zoe as I recall. I was far too busy doing what I do, project management and architectural design work.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby foremanjoe » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:45 pm

Still, I suppose it's always good to have a driven whistleblower working with the journalists.

You could be our Cú NAMA, mythical folk hero of the post-boom era.
foremanjoe
Member
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:57 pm

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:13 pm

Yeah, it is too much hard work though. I wanted to finish off my night classes these last couple of months and that went on hold. Now, ordinary life has to get back into priority.

But the thing is, as newspaper sales drop and journalists can make more cash writing reviews of new digital cameras and expose's about soccer players . . . they struggle a lot to find wherewithal to do any serious journalism. That is what bothers me a bit quite frankly. The noble profession of journalism has taken quite a beating in recent years. How is anything going to enter the public domain which might inform us in our decision making?

It appears we live in an information age, but we know less than ever. If there is any information deficit I have managed to fill, it has been worth something. I do look forward to an era when real journalists can do what they do best. Joining up the dots properly, so the rest of us can see the big picture.

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:48 pm

For your interest.

We have heard about journalism working in a symbiotic relationship with blogging.

But what about blogging morphing into journalism ? ? ?

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/aug/23/developing-on-the-back-of-a-cigarette-box/

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:06 am

Barry O' Halloran wrote an excellent article in today's Irish Times newspaper.

Goodman was a big employer in an economy where one worker in five was out of a job, and the failure of his business would have had far-reaching ramifications for an entire industry. Back then, the government actually worried about unemployment and it responded quickly. The Oireachtas was recalled from its extended summer holiday to pass the law which created examinerships which, in turn, paved the way out of trouble for Goodman and the beef industry.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0824/1224253136147.html

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Liam Carroll: I did it my way?

Postby garethace » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:41 pm

Doomed, doomed, doomed . . . one gets comfortable with the idea after a while, it becomes so familiar.

He said the court did not agree with the claim made by counsel for ACC that the new petition is obviously doomed.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0824/carrolll.html

Brian O' Hanlon
garethace
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland



cron