first brick house in Limerick

first brick house in Limerick

Postby scott bruce » Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:04 pm

Hi

I'm interested in the first brick house built in Limerick. It was allegedly constructed for Richard Leader, an English merchant, around 1640, just before the Uprising He was about 27 years old at the time. Any info? Does it still stand?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
scott bruce
Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:00 am

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby Junior » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:36 pm

The Civil Survey of 1654-56 which gives a description of every property within the walled city describes only one brick building, owned by a Captain George Ingoldsby measuring 31 by 19 ft.
I have plotted the civil survey against 19th cent ordnance survey maps, the brick house was located near Island Gate which is now a car park on Old Dominick St. opposite the Villiers Alms Houses, there are no extant remains of the building
Junior
Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby CologneMike » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Sounds like very interesting stuff, where can one read the details of this 1654-56 Civil Survey? Even more interesting is survey that you plotted onto a map. On the Dutch Billy Thread we posted a nice amount of material from the Englishtown / Irishtown and hence always on the outlook for maps that would give us a better idea of the streetscape back then.

Are you familiar with the bird’s eye view map of Limerick (1691) that was printed probably in poster format for the 300 Year Treaty Commemoration (1691-1991)?

Alas the detail in the Limerick Museum image below is somewhat blurred, are you aware as to where one can see a better copy of it?

300 Year Treaty Commemoration (1691-1991)

There is a map, birds eye view of Limerick 1691 from south by Richard Ahern, 1991, sponsored by Treaty 300 and Powers Whiskey. Based on the 1591 map in the Hardiman Collection, TCD.

The buildings in the city numbered 1-101 with key to Englishtown (1-69) to right and Irishtown (70-101) to left.

Parishes lettered A-E


Image
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby Junior » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:43 am

The Civil Survey 1654-56 was gathered subsequent to Cromwell's campaign in Ireland, to put it briefly all the lands and properties that were confiscated (from mainly Catholic owners) were surveyed, in the case of Limerick City the type of building -stone house/castle/cagework is given, its dimensions with any yard or waste plot are described, the rent payable and in most cases the new protestant tenant is also detailed.The Civil Survey of Limerick City and County,edited by Simmington is available in the reference section of the city library.
Using 1840-1900 Ordnance Survey maps of Limerick, the original late medieval property boundaries were plotted on a modern map utilising known landmarks such as extant buildings/laneways etc. this was done mainly by Claire Lane in the late 80's.
The 300 anniversary 1691 map was draughted by a local historian Richard Ahern, whilst working as an archaeological researcher for the Limerick Civic Trust I decided to go one further and use the information from the Civil Survey together with all the cartographic information available in the Limerick Museum to draught a new map which is far more accurate(not just a pretty picture).
The map and accompanying booklet on the extant medieval fabric of Limerick is due to be published in September.In reference to the dutch billy thread, I fear that the only ones to be found in Limerick are the two gables at the rear of St John's Square however the boundary plots and walls of many other billy's remain.
Junior
Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby gunter » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:32 pm

Junior wrote:. . . . I decided to go one further and use the information from the Civil Survey together with all the cartographic information available in the Limerick Museum to draught a new map which is far more accurate (not just a pretty picture).


Outstanding, re-plotting historical maps is a head-wrecker, but incredibly valuable.

What does your map tell us about the Mary Street 'Billys', opposite Gaol Lane? How is it that there appears to be a laneway opening in the centre of the group where there should be a party wall? or was the centre pair a single property with twin gables? (or was the whole thing a single property with four gables?). Does the last of the Billys line up with Fanning's Castle, or not?

Junior wrote:The map and accompanying booklet on the extant medieval fabric of Limerick is due to be published in September.


Will there be complementary copies for Archiseekers?
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby jimg » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:58 pm

Junior wrote: The 300 anniversary 1691 map was draughted by a local historian Richard Ahern, whilst working as an archaeological researcher for the Limerick Civic Trust I decided to go one further and use the information from the Civil Survey together with all the cartographic information available in the Limerick Museum to draught a new map which is far more accurate(not just a pretty picture).
The map and accompanying booklet on the extant medieval fabric of Limerick is due to be published in September.In reference to the dutch billy thread, I fear that the only ones to be found in Limerick are the two gables at the rear of St John's Square however the boundary plots and walls of many other billy's remain.

Sounds excellent. I'm really looking forward to it.
jimg
Member
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:07 pm
Location: Zürich

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby KerryBog2 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:04 pm

The makings of a great thread. Looking forward to the booklet. Please keep us posted on how/where it will be available.

Would the bricks have been brought in as ballast on a ship or would they have been made in a newly created local brickworks?

CologneMike - a great book on that era is the Cromwellian Settlement of Ireland by Prendergast - a taster is here :

http://books.google.ie/books?id=5mEx15bmXysC&dq=prendergast+cromwellian+settlement+of+ireland&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=g8erLg3dWE&sig=PZSymYjkzuROW34S9LjxNJeVkYo&hl=en&ei=TIiASqDJK9zRjAfny93wAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Rs
K.
KerryBog2
Member
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: trilocated and often lost

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby gunter » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:05 pm

Hey KerryBog, on the subject of early brick houses, I spotted your old house in Rostock.

Image

nice!
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby KerryBog2 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:24 pm

gunter wrote:Hey KerryBog, on the subject of early brick houses, I spotted your old house in Rostock.


Nice one Gunter! :) Actually, that’s the cousin’s, Ratsherr KerryBog. He was going to Hamelin for work way back, but confused the Wesau and Warnou. My side is more into crucks, wattle & daub, and brick chimneys. Will post some when I can get my scanner to talk to Vista...
Rs,
K.
KerryBog2
Member
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: trilocated and often lost

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby CologneMike » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:42 pm

Junior wrote:The Civil Survey 1654-56 was gathered subsequent to Cromwell's campaign in Ireland, to put it briefly all the lands and properties that were confiscated (from mainly Catholic owners) were surveyed, in the case of Limerick City the type of building -stone house/castle/cagework is given, its dimensions with any yard or waste plot are described, the rent payable and in most cases the new protestant tenant is also detailed.The Civil Survey of Limerick City and County,edited by Simmington is available in the reference section of the city library.

Using 1840-1900 Ordnance Survey maps of Limerick, the original late medieval property boundaries were plotted on a modern map utilising known landmarks such as extant buildings/laneways etc. this was done mainly by Claire Lane in the late 80's.

The 300 anniversary 1691 map was draughted by a local historian Richard Ahern, whilst working as an archaeological researcher for the Limerick Civic Trust I decided to go one further and use the information from the Civil Survey together with all the cartographic information available in the Limerick Museum to draught a new map which is far more accurate(not just a pretty picture).

The map and accompanying booklet on the extant medieval fabric of Limerick is due to be published in September.In reference to the dutch billy thread, I fear that the only ones to be found in Limerick are the two gables at the rear of St John's Square however the boundary plots and walls of many other billy's remain.


Thanks for the infos and looking forward to the publication of your map and accompanying booklet. I will definitely pay the city library a visit or two next week when I get home. Needless to say I have a book glaring at me from my bookshelf that uses details from the 1654 Civil Survey with an excellent plotted map of the castle with its neighbouring buildings.

Anatomy of a siege: King John’s Castle, Limerick, 1642 by Kenneth Wiggins

In Chapter 6 ‘We could not hinder them’ Page 96

Fig. 25-Conjectural plan of the castle at the time of the siege, adjacent properties to the north and the east added, based on descriptions and measurements provided in the Civil Survey of 1654.


Having reread this chapter again today and this time round I paid a bit more attention to detail. ;)

Interesting to read that Castle Street was known as Thomond Street and Nicholas Street was High Street.

A row of houses on Castle Street were stone houses and on Nicholas Street from Castle Lane to Castle Street there were cage-work (timber framed) houses.

I wonder were these cage-work houses an English import and that the Irish preferred stone?

The author used a cage-work example from York.

Image

Image from Simply-Ken

See google books
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby Junior » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 am

In the photo of Mary St. the laneway between the Dutch Gabled houses is Ryans Lane,it appears on the 1840 and 1870 Ordnance Survey maps of Limerick,the two closest Billy's are described in the Civil Survey 1654,they were refaced in brick in the early 18th cent.
The laneway is not mentioned in the mid 17th cent survey, the next two gabled houses were originally one property according to the civil survey measured 44ft fronting the street by 40ft,I would assume the redevelopment/refacing of these buildings accounts for the laneway where one would assume to find a dividing wall.
The next two storeyed flat gabled building, that has washing hanging outside is the building which fronts Fanning's Castle,(not really a castle more a castellated town house dating to the 15th/16th cent, these oppulent merchant class buildings were predominant on Mary St. -then known as High St.)
The furthest three two storeyed buildings which corner onto Creagh Lane replaced three timber framed cagework houses also in the early 18th cent.
Junior
Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby CologneMike » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:51 am

Junior wrote:The Civil Survey 1654-56 was gathered subsequent to Cromwell's campaign in Ireland, to put it briefly all the lands and properties that were confiscated (from mainly Catholic owners) were surveyed, in the case of Limerick City the type of building -stone house/castle/cagework is given, its dimensions with any yard or waste plot are described, the rent payable and in most cases the new protestant tenant is also detailed.The Civil Survey of Limerick City and County,edited by Simmington is available in the reference section of the city library.


I had a look in the book of the Civil Survey 1654-56. Interesting reading and hope I got the original spelling right below.

The book also reveals that the Arthurs Family (Irish Papist) held a lot of property at that time. Amazingly enough they seemed to survive through the following “Penal Times” period to emerge as one of the city’s wealthiest merchants.

The said Captaine George Ingoldsby (English Interest)

Next northwards of the said Brickhouse is a Tryangle plot of Ground, ioyning with Iseland Gate, whereon theire is a ruined tatchd house, of the Precinct of the said Abbey, in each side 126 foote

Vallue in 1640 (Li s d) 005: 00: 00
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: first brick house in Limerick

Postby CologneMike » Sun May 09, 2010 6:09 pm

Junior wrote:The Civil Survey of 1654-56 which gives a description of every property within the walled city describes only one brick building, owned by a Captain George Ingoldsby measuring 31 by 19 ft.

I have plotted the civil survey against 19th cent ordnance survey maps, the brick house was located near Island Gate which is now a car park on Old Dominick St. opposite the Villiers Alms Houses, there are no extant remains of the building


Alone it stands ~ Site of Limerick’s first brick building.

Excellent job John with your 1650 map and guide “Medieval Limerick Today” !

The said Captaine George Ingoldsby (English Interest)

Next northwards of the said Brickhouse is a Tryangle plot of Ground, ioyning with Iseland Gate, whereon theire is a ruined tatchd house, of the Precinct of the said Abbey, in each side 126 foote

Vallue in 1640 (Li s d) 005: 00: 00


Number 1 on map denotes Island Gate.

Image
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm


Return to Ireland