DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby garethace » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:26 am

jdivision wrote:Given nearly everything designed and built in last five years had break up options of some description I'd fundamentally disagree with that idea


I am more than delighted for someone to disagree, it would make the outlook for the Irish economy a lot better. But I still get the intense feeling that commercial space is overhanging the market, with landlords hoping against hope, to try and land that one large tenant. It is like the mythical white unicorn out there at the moment, but I suppose hope springs eternal. Some old dinosaurs want to believe that the Celtic Tiger isn't dead yet.

I don't think that the solutions will come from within property management itself. I have some idea of how an Energy Services Company is going to work. It basically involves a lot of two-way communication through information technology systems between the consumer of power and the intermediate player, positioned between the consumer and the producer. The basic idea of the Smart Meter is that it broadcasts large volumes of information back to the producer or intermediate player. It is up to one of those two, to interpret the information that is coming back to them in order to understand the behaviour of the consumer. It helps the consumer him or herself too of course, to look at themselves and perhaps alter their behaviours in a way they judge fit. For instance, how many times a day do I boil a kettle etc. I think the ESCo can operate on the principle of nega-watts. The more energy consumption that the ESCo can save or reduce, the better it gets paid. It is like the opposite to the old formula, where the power utility encouraged you to use more.

I would welcome a situation in Ireland, where people were allowed to switch jobs for a year or two at least. For instance, someone in property management to go to work for Bord Gais or some other ESCo. To find out how they deal with the problem and develop and build information technology solutions. That notion of sharing of skills between different industries amounts to what I would call a really 'smart' economy. I left behind the small incestuous world of architects a number of years ago, to work in the larger and more shark invested waters of the engineering, project management and construction industry. You might argue it wasn't a very large step to make, but the culture was different. Engineers tend to be more enterprising and swear a lot more. Often they engage in wrestling matches to settle matters between one another. This would seem strange within the architectural culture, where hand bags and bitch-iness are the preferred option. I attended a xmas party with some old architect friends a couple of years ago, and they wondered what had happened to me. Why was I now so 'different' to them. I would argue, that moving between different industries makes one much 'smarter' than the average bear.

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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby garethace » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:32 pm

This is about:

Dragging the property business in Ireland out of the Celtic Tiger and into the modern age.

The modern airplane needs an onboard computer in order to fly. I think that property in Ireland has come to that stage. We need the government to fund a project in order to write the code necessary. We don't have a building bust in Ireland so much as a cronic shortfall in our ability to gain use out of the large buildings that we build. We haven't develop a sufficiently robust model for rental in either the commercial or residential sectors. I am not holding my breath for Daft, My Home or any of the developers to come up with these goods either. The trouble is, we have too much financial innovation happening at the wrong stage in the building process. All kinds of weird and wonderful things seem to happen at the point at which debt (read toxid debt) is created. Richard Douthwaite and Feasta can explain that a lot better than I can.

http://constructireland.ie/Vol-4-Issue-4/Articles/Economy/How-Ireland-might-avoid-bankruptcy-with-energy-innovation.html

The trouble is we do not have enough finanical innovation aimed at the point where the project is completed and needs to be fully used. In the early history of the Irish state a young fellow named Gordon Clarke wrote the first computer program in Ireland. His job was to cut out a lot of the administration needed in running the sugar beet plants in Ireland. So they invested in some large behemoth computers the size of a room. I saw a print out of what farmers got from this computer. It had to account for all kinds of things. Some farmers were obtaining finanical assistance from the sugar beet plant in order to sow the crop. They also obtained a quantity of molassas from the plant, which presumably was used as cattle feed. They also had to be paid for the beet crop they produced. The computer was needed to calculate and report all of that. Before the computer arrived it took rooms full of people with sheets of paper to do.

A large single tenant is often used in Ireland to disguise the fact that there is basically something wrong with the property management models we are using. When there is a large single tenant the problems seem to go away. But do they really? How sustainable is it for every developer to be producing large floor plates and then hoping to sign up the one tenant. We need robust computer models to calculate costs of floor plate area dynamically for enterprise that will scale up and down in size over the years. We need to provide finance to the business startup, as well as charge for the floor space use. Like we did with the sugar beet farmers so many years ago. Gordon later moved on to work at AerLingus. In those days, it was a really difficult job trying to calculate the value of rapidly depreciating airline tickets. It was another area in which computers found an early application in Ireland and in many countries throughout the world.

Ireland has the opportunity to become a world pioneer in the area of land valuation and property management. We could turn a big negative, into a big plus if we wanted to. We could sell our product to industry and governments all over the world. We need to think big enough. If we made this a project the state should organise we could tackle all kinds of problems. At the moment we have a couple of voluntary think tanks, a couple of university do-good-ers such as Constantin Gurdgiev looking around for a single PHd student in Dublin to do a thesis on calculating land values. This is hardly the scale of enterprise that is going to crack open this problem for Ireland or anyone else. We need the state to get involved and to think much more ambitious. We need to give all of those unemployed financial wizards and software engineers in Ireland something useful and sustainable to do with their lives. While they are still around to do anything.

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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby Bluetonic » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:00 pm

Report on Newstalk there on how a 'Dublin Eye' is being proposed for beside The Point.

How original.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby publicrealm » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:36 pm

Bluetonic wrote:Report on Newstalk there on how a 'Dublin Eye' is being proposed for beside The Point.

How original.


Don't be so cynical.

It will be an Irish Eye. Not smiling as per the old cliche but certainly seeing no evil and given to the knowing wink.

DDDA land is the perfect location. I imagine the rights have already been agreed, (regardless of the annoying restrictions of planning schemes).
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby Morlan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:10 pm

Bluetonic wrote:Report on Newstalk there on how a 'Dublin Eye' is being proposed for beside The Point.

How original.


So let me get this straight:

1. A giant cartwheel
2. A giant fireplace
3. A 110ft “Giant Man”.
4. A giant 'Wire Man'
5. 'Suas' cable cars


What a fucking joke. :rolleyes:
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby DGF » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:58 pm

Now that we have the 'Giant Harp' (Beckett Bridge) we should follow this indigenous theme rather than copying others.

I suggest:
The Giant Leprechaun
The Giant Shilelagh
The Giant Shamrock

That would bring the people flocking... ;)
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby Contraband » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:00 pm

I liked the giant man idea, a bit more original than a Dublin Eye.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby DGF » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:02 pm

Bit more original but still a derivation from the artists 'Angel of the North'
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:05 pm

Clarification Re Statement on behalf of Point Village

Contrary to the impression given in a statement issued today, 22 July 2009
on behalf of the Point Village, the Dublin Docklands Development Authority
has made no decision on a site for an observation wheel. The Authority
is currently involved in a tender process considering Expressions of
Interest for supply, construction and operation of an observation wheel
for a number of sites in the Docklands area.

However, we understand that Crosbie Property Holdings are in discussions
with wheel suppliers for a similar project at a site in the Point Village.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby darkman » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:02 pm

So......that means we could be getting, not one, but two wheels?
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:50 pm

darkman wrote:So......that means we could be getting, not one, but two wheels?


Well since a new wheel would be the only landmark of any note, you really need two of them. This way, when you go on the wheel you can look at the other wheel.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby Contraband » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:27 pm

rumpelstiltskin wrote:Well since a new wheel would be the only landmark of any note, you really need two of them. This way, when you go on the wheel you can look at the other wheel.


hahaha :D
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby vkid » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:40 pm

heard Matt Cooper on the radio announcing this as good news. Turned him off at that point. Realistically what is there to look at in Dublin..Liberty hall and a whole pile of urban sprawl. I can see the top of the spire from here...Woo hoo.

Is there any originality anywhere anymore or does everything in this country have to be a carbon copy of what it done in London or the UK. From RTE programmes to this big wheel crap..terrible.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:50 am

How about one of those slender observation towers that you see in places like Toronto and Seattle. It might not be original either, but at least it's not an obvious copy of London. You could even give it a unique design for Dublin.

Image
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby missarchi » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:40 am

DGF wrote:That would bring the people flocking... ;)

the thread was 1 year to the official crash to the dayish...
And they shoot the messenger go figure...

Small portable wheels are ok with LED's I reckon but not original...
We have two here the big one is broken... I don't see it being viable unless its free rides or it will only function when there are concerts.

Everything so far to me indicates that Ireland enjoys being a pirate sailing the seven seas
and it is sanctioned and rewarded it doesn't like hot chips.

horses for courses...
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby fergalr » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:21 pm

vkid wrote:
Is there any originality anywhere anymore or does everything in this country have to be a carbon copy of what it done in London or the UK.


Vienna has had a huge ferris wheel as one of its most enduring symbols for over a century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Riesenrad
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby GrahamH » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:35 pm

Ah, but designed by an Englishman! They get their pawprints in every which way.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby fergalr » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:46 pm

GrahamH wrote:Ah, but designed by an Englishman! They get their pawprints in every which way.


Perfidious Albion once more... they've been planning this for about 130 years.
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby theman » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:36 pm

1
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Box Clever ?

Postby Rusty Cogs » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:33 pm

Looks like short of a red light Harry C will do anything to get footfall down to his Point Village white elephant.

From today's Indo

RECYCLED shipping containers will be used to build a new public space next to the O2 music venue.

The Parlour will form part of the Point Village development, near Dublin Port, new plans reveal.

The area will be used to host free outdoor events including concerts, theatre, ceilis, political rallies and a weekly produce market.

Dublin City Council said that temporary planning permission of up to five years would be sought, and that the Parlour was expected to be completed early next summer. The cost would be minimal.

A council spokesman said: "It's not a temporary structure in the sense that we know it.

"There's not going to be development there for some time in the current climate, and the purpose of this is to animate a space that would otherwise be unused.

"This is a huge opportunity with a new Luas terminating at the site, and will give that whole side of the city a new space."

Architects LiD Architecture have won a design competition organised by Dublin City Council and entrepreneur Harry Crosbie, owner of the O2, which will see 116 shipping containers arranged in a giant square at the front of the venue.

A giant €10m ferris wheel, similar to the London Eye, is also planned for the site.

Meanwhile, the O2 Arena, has attracted record number of visitors since last year.

The venue is fully booked for the next 18 months, and according to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, generates more than €100m a year for the Dublin economy.

jlast@herald.ie
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby StephenC » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:56 pm

Hey dont knock Harry. If there's one guy with his head screwed on its him
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Re: Box Clever ?

Postby Yixian » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:51 am

Rusty Cogs wrote: political rallies and a weekly produce market


THIS is what Dublin needs.

If the city had any sense it will do everything it can to fill that market with international food, street food etc. - it's something barely any cities in Europe have, a top class market... in a top class location.

And Dublin sorely lacks a space for political rallies.



EDIT: Here are the images:

Image

Image

Must have been slim pickings in that competition..
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby missarchi » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:45 am

why would you ever have a rally in docklands? waste of time...
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby gunter » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:12 pm

So Dublin's ''Parlour'' is an empty container yard! . . . . what does that tell us?
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Re: DDDA / Docklands Miscellany

Postby B.JOS » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:34 pm

Oh dear !
There are some good examples of good container architecture but this just looks weak from those few images . It doesnt seem to sit well , maybe its too contained . I wonder what Joe Bloggs will think of this new venue . It looks rather depressing actually .
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