Developments in Cork

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Cliff Barnes » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:59 pm

Principal Statistics › Print Page › Change size of text A. A. A.
Population of each Province, County and City, 2006
Province, County
or
City


Limerick 184,055

Cork 481,295


From the CSO so enough silly 45 minutes etc ideas.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby ToMuchFreeTime » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:34 pm

Well the fact is that the 45 minutes is used to indicate the population which is within daily commute of the city.

starchaser your argument is ridiculous as limerick and cork are the major centers which trade is drawn too in the regions. please we are working off the norms 'flying ???'

'starchaser'

and 45 minutes from mallow or fermoy or castletroy, does that mean that these towns have populations in excess of 300,000? 45 minutes by plane from dublin - does that make the dublin region 4 or 5 million? 45 minutes from London - by car maybe 20 million, by train maybe 30 million, by plane- maybe 90 million. what kind of an argument is that?


Cliff Barnes using the cso does not work either as there is no figures their for the greater cork area and the greater limerick area.

The 45 minute radius would take the best sample of the population of the city and the commuting population hence why it's used by the government for spatial planning. and it's not beyond reason that people in overlapping areas of north cok commute to limerick for work/shopping or actually to cork.


Look up page 22 in this spatial strategy for commuting trends picked up from the 2002 census

http://www.irishspatialstrategy.ie/pdfs/Atlantic%20Gateways%20Report%20-%20final%20pdf%20-%20sep06.pdf
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:55 pm

dave123 wrote:City and suburbs of both.
Limerick city is growing as fast as the other regions. The city of Limerick is going through some great rejuivention right now. Its now taking its place to be one of the most attractive feel good cities in Ireland. Something it was never judged as.


So how come property prices are so much lower than Cork and Galway?
So you are saying that Dell pulling out will have no impact on Limerick? So the major employer in the region pulls out, a decision that has an impact on a huge range of support services across the wider region leaves the area and things keep going as before. The area must be remarkable.

I'm old enough to remember the loss of Fords and Dunlops (showing my age) in Cork with the loss of 1,600 jobs and the devestation that followed for the city, yet you believe Limerick will not suffer the loss of approximately 4,000 jobs. There must be another major employer ready to move in then?

Even Dublin, our major economic hub is suffering from what is now a depression. Can you please inform us why Limerick is different so we can bottle it and use it on the other regions?
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby dave123 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:16 am

mickeydocs wrote:So how come property prices are so much lower than Cork and Galway?
So you are saying that Dell pulling out will have no impact on Limerick? So the major employer in the region pulls out, a decision that has an impact on a huge range of support services across the wider region leaves the area and things keep going as before. The area must be remarkable.

I'm old enough to remember the loss of Fords and Dunlops (showing my age) in Cork with the loss of 1,600 jobs and the devestation that followed for the city, yet you believe Limerick will not suffer the loss of approximately 4,000 jobs. There must be another major employer ready to move in then?

Even Dublin, our major economic hub is suffering from what is now a depression. Can you please inform us why Limerick is different so we can bottle it and use it on the other regions?


Actually Limerick houseprices have fallen less than Galway or Cork in the last year alone.

Limerick house prices have sharply increased if you look at a 3 year period, greater than Cork or Galway in most residential listings, expecially 3 bedroom and 2 bedroom Aprts.. Limerick as I said is very underbounded where you have 3 council's making a mess of the planning situaion in that city. House prices fluctuate greatly in many parts of the city. City rates are among the highest in the country as Limerick city council has not maximised income as half the city is outside it's limits. North circular road is one of the most expensive streets in the country.

The problem is Limerick gets alot of bad press. But even that is changing.

Here is job creation in Limerick of recent :)
http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=804:limerick-semiconductor-company-expands-to-create-150-new-jobs&catid=37:local-news&Itemid=60

[url]http://www.limerickindependent.com/local-news/local-news/new-greyhound-stadium-will-create-250-new-
jobs-/[/url]

http://www.eecho.ie/news/index.aspx?c=ireland&jp=eykfojauojsn
A thousand jobs boost here.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news?articleid=5302275.

With an expaning retail and tourist sector. I personally believe Limerick will still thrive, not to mention attracting mroe investment from fnternational firms.

The other job boost is UL, this university is thriving, and is becoming one of Ireland's most popular universitties. New medical school on the way for example.

One only needs to look at the activity in Limerick, go see the town and see if Limerick is doing well.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby dave123 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:22 am

Ennis is almost a city in Irish standards and is only 25mimns from Limerick or 36km.

Clare itself is going to grow faster imo than either Cork or lImierick in the next cenus

Especially around Ennis, Sixmilebridge, Shannon, North Clare(Galway metropolitician)

With Shannon expanding its town centre into a modern vibrant town. We will see much growth here too. The Fourth river crossing will only enhance every assertion I've posed.

Either way It's iimportant that the three centres, Limerick, Cork and Galway to grow.


Mickeydocs, Limerick has a booming tourist industry at the moment. I know Dell is closing but there is still hundreds of jobs been created in Shannon in the last few months. The Opera centre is now a step closer to getting the go ahead. So jobs will come to Limerick especially when the city centre is bypassed. Limerick has huge commercial power pullling from both Galway and Cork. Take the Cresent for example thats has a catchment for shoppers from Both cities and not just Limerick
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby starchaser » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:36 am

ToMuchFreeTime wrote:Well the fact is that the 45 minutes is used to indicate the population which is within daily commute of the city.

starchaser your argument is ridiculous as limerick and cork are the major centers which trade is drawn too in the regions. please we are working off the norms 'flying ???'



Cliff Barnes using the cso does not work either as there is no figures their for the greater cork area and the greater limerick area.

The 45 minute radius would take the best sample of the population of the city and the commuting population hence why it's used by the government for spatial planning. and it's not beyond reason that people in overlapping areas of north cok commute to limerick for work/shopping or actually to cork.


Look up page 22 in this spatial strategy for commuting trends picked up from the 2002 census

http://www.irishspatialstrategy.ie/pdfs/Atlantic%20Gateways%20Report%20-%20final%20pdf%20-%20sep06.pdf


exactly, i'm trying to highlight how rediculous it is to use this "45 minute" rule. What i'm trying to say is that you can distort the population figures to support your argument for any town, city or region using this 45 minutes, 45 mile, 45 whatever concept and anyway, where does the 45 come from? why not 44 or 46 ;)
The CSO is the most reliable statistic available.
And why are we having this discussion on here anyway. Should this not be happening on the Central statistics office discussion forums :)
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Cliff Barnes » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:38 am

ToMuchFreeTime wrote:Well the fact is that the 45 minutes is used to indicate the population which is within daily commute of the city.

starchaser your argument is ridiculous as limerick and cork are the major centers which trade is drawn too in the regions. please we are working off the norms 'flying ???'



Cliff Barnes using the cso does not work either as there is no figures their for the greater cork area and the greater limerick area.

The 45 minute radius would take the best sample of the population of the city and the commuting population hence why it's used by the government for spatial planning. and it's not beyond reason that people in overlapping areas of north cok commute to limerick for work/shopping or actually to cork.


Look up page 22 in this spatial strategy for commuting trends picked up from the 2002 census

http://www.irishspatialstrategy.ie/pdfs/Atlantic%20Gateways%20Report%20-%20final%20pdf%20-%20sep06.pdf


So myself and the CSO's figures are not good enough either ?

Oh dear.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby starchaser » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:25 pm

ToMuchFreeTime wrote:
The 45 minute radius would take the best sample of the population of the city and the commuting population hence why it's used by the government for spatial planning. and it's not beyond reason that people in overlapping areas of north cok commute to limerick for work/shopping or actually to cork.


Look up page 22 in this spatial strategy for commuting trends picked up from the 2002 census

http://www.irishspatialstrategy.ie/pdfs/Atlantic%20Gateways%20Report%20-%20final%20pdf%20-%20sep06.pdf


sorry, i didn't make it to the end of you posting first time round. whats this spatial strategy report. Is this one of those reports some bunch of consultants got paid millions to put together? afraid i don't have the time or interest in having a read of that.
TomuchFreeTime :)
Are you a friend of rumpleforeskin? ;)
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:42 pm

You claim that prices in Limerick are falling less rapidly than in Cork.This is not true according to the latest quarterly Daft Report http://www.daft.ie/report/Daft-House-Price-Report-Q1-2009.pdf. Have a look at page 4 - Limerick City prices are -5.5% compared to -4.8% in Cork City. Limerick City and property prices are falling faster than Cork prices:
Limerick County prices are -4.1% compared to -1.2% in County Cork.

No doubt you'll have some strange subjective interpretation...

Clare itself is going to grow faster imo than either Cork or lImierick in the next cenus
- In your opinion - your opinions are irrelevant - it didn't grow more quickly than Cork, in fact the growth was considerably less in the last census so what has changed?

Either way It's iimportant that the three centres, Limerick, Cork and Galway to grow.
- Why?

Mickeydocs, Limerick has a booming tourist industry at the moment.
- So your answer to the loss of thousands of jobs is tourism and higher education - you must work for fianna fail to come up with such great solutions. I can really see assembly workers from Limerick housing estates lecturing on quantum physics :rolleyes:

Limerick has huge commercial power pullling from both Galway and Cork. Take the Cresent for example thats has a catchment for shoppers from Both cities and not just Limerick
- I don't know of anyone from Cork that goes to Limerick to shop... why would we when there is an abundance of out of town centres on a par with Crescent (Mahon Point, Douglas)??? I would go to London to shop, and the Dundrum shopping centre isn't bad... but the Crescent, give me a break!
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:44 pm

dave123 wrote:Ennis is almost a city in Irish standards and is only 25mimns from Limerick or 36km.


Kilkenny is a city by Irish standards - this is a medieval classification. All you need are a couple of cathedrals. Douglas, Carrigaline and Ballincollig are all on a par with Ennis in terms of population (census 2006).
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby dave123 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:53 pm

mickeydocs wrote:You claim that prices in Limerick are falling less rapidly than in Cork.This is not true according to the latest quarterly Daft Report http://www.daft.ie/report/Daft-House-Price-Report-Q1-2009.pdf. Have a look at page 4 - Limerick City prices are -5.5% compared to -4.8% in Cork City. Limerick City and property prices are falling faster than Cork prices:
Limerick County prices are -4.1% compared to -1.2% in County Cork.

No doubt you'll have some strange subjective interpretation...

Clare itself is going to grow faster imo than either Cork or lImierick in the next cenus
- In your opinion - your opinions are irrelevant - it didn't grow more quickly than Cork, in fact the growth was considerably less in the last census so what has changed?

Either way It's iimportant that the three centres, Limerick, Cork and Galway to grow.
- Why?

Mickeydocs, Limerick has a booming tourist industry at the moment.
- So your answer to the loss of thousands of jobs is tourism and higher education - you must work for fianna fail to come up with such great solutions. I can really see assembly workers from Limerick housing estates lecturing on quantum physics :rolleyes:

Limerick has huge commercial power pullling from both Galway and Cork. Take the Cresent for example thats has a catchment for shoppers from Both cities and not just Limerick
- I don't know of anyone from Cork that goes to Limerick to shop... why would we when there is an abundance of out of town centres on a par with Crescent (Mahon Point, Douglas)??? I would go to London to shop, and the Dundrum shopping centre isn't bad... but the Crescent, give me a break!



Well for 2007
The Daft report states this
Limerick 11% year on change, Quater on quarter change 1.6%
Cork 5.61% year on change quarter on quarter change 0.6%
Galway 0.8% year on change, quater on quarter change -2.0%


More than double the growth than Cork and 9 times the growth of Galway
.


I'll check 2008 later.... :)


I know at least 4 people in person who go to Limerick to shop and alot go to the Crescent. When travelling up North of Lot of people stop in Limerick if travelling to Galway etc... Very surpised as a Corkonian you don't know anyone lol.. hmmm
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby dave123 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:59 pm

mickeydocs wrote:Kilkenny is a city by Irish standards - this is a medieval classification. All you need are a couple of cathedrals. Douglas, Carrigaline and Ballincollig are all on a par with Ennis in terms of population (census 2006).


Ennis is about 30,000, The boundary area is about 25,000.

Ballincollig, Carrigline combined equals Ennis. Don't where you get all your exaggeration from. It is believed that Ennis is already over the 32,000 mark based on predictions for 2008. it will be Ireland's next city along with Dundalk and Drogheda. With rate of growth in Clare and the Galway and limerick conurbations stretching into the county, it's only a matter of time.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby venividi » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:16 pm

dave123 wrote:Well for 2007
The Daft report states this
Limerick 11% year on change, Quater on quarter change 1.6%
Cork 5.61% year on change quarter on quarter change 0.6%
Galway 0.8% year on change, quater on quarter change -2.0%




2007!? Are you really using it as a serious argument? Sorry, but this Cork-Limerick clash starts to be a bit pathetic.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby starchaser » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:49 pm

venividi wrote:2007!? Are you really using it as a serious argument? Sorry, but this Cork-Limerick clash starts to be a bit pathetic.


Yeah, this is a waste of discussion forum space. No comparison really. So how about we end it here? :cool:
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:07 pm

dave123 wrote:Ennis is about 30,000, The boundary area is about 25,000.

Ballincollig, Carrigline combined equals Ennis. Don't where you get all your exaggeration from. It is believed that Ennis is already over the 32,000 mark based on predictions for 2008. it will be Ireland's next city along with Dundalk and Drogheda. With rate of growth in Clare and the Galway and limerick conurbations stretching into the county, it's only a matter of time.


I'm gonna finalise a few points and stop responding to you - in a Cork forum.
Your town is tiny. So is mine (but no where near as tiny as yours LOL and lots of sarcasm!)
What has Ennis got to do with Limerick? It is 40km from Limerick? Are you claiming this as a commuter town or as a suburb, or maybe the inner city... where will you stop, Sligo? Why don't you count Cork in while you are at it.
Limerick and Galway (and Cork) are tiny conurbations at best, probably 10 mile radius (and exaggerated at that). It is spurious at best to claim Ennis as part of the 'Limerick conurbation'.
Predictions are suspect at best. Eastern Europeans are leaving our country en masse, and they counted for large percentages of the recent population growth across the county.
The growth of the past ten years will be replaced by population decline unless our economic fortunes change fast.
Your claim that Limerick is a desirable place to be is not borne out by property prices which are on a par with Waterford and well below Galway and Cork. Property prices reveal either the desirability of a location, or a very limited supply of accomodation. I refuse to believe that there is any part of the country with an undersupply of accomodation.

I totally accept that we Corkonians have a hugely inflated sense of who we are, but you know something, your hyperbole in relation to Limerick prove to me that we are not alone.

BTW I get the impression that you do not really belong in the real world and are something of a Walter Mitty character. Good luck to you, and off to the Limerick forum with you.

Please leave us Cork floke to gasp in awe at how quickly the Megalopolis of Limerick replaced Tokyo as the worlds great conurbation,
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby dave123 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:18 am

mickeydocs wrote:I'm gonna finalise a few points and stop responding to you - in a Cork forum.
Your town is tiny. So is mine (but no where near as tiny as yours LOL and lots of sarcasm!)
What has Ennis got to do with Limerick? It is 40km from Limerick? Are you claiming this as a commuter town or as a suburb, or maybe the inner city... where will you stop, Sligo? Why don't you count Cork in while you are at it.
Limerick and Galway (and Cork) are tiny conurbations at best, probably 10 mile radius (and exaggerated at that). It is spurious at best to claim Ennis as part of the 'Limerick conurbation'.

Mickey its you who is turning this into a rant, cus you make up facts as you go along....Just look at what you just wrote.

Ennis is 36km. Not 40km. Same distance as Mallow is to Cork. It's a gateway town in the Shannon region. It's the Shannon development area Both towns are connected economically and physically. I just don't accept your biased notions and non facts]. I've never knocked Cork. But you have knocked Limerick many times on this thread. You have also undermined its status, in order to feed "as you say hugley inflated sense of who we are as Corkonians"

Stop trolling Mickeydocs.


Predictions are suspect at best. Eastern Europeans are leaving our country en masse, and they counted for large percentages of the recent population growth across the county.
The growth of the past ten years will be replaced by population decline unless our economic fortunes change fast.
Not all, in fact there are alot of foriegner's still staying here. So that is another incorrect claim. The only noticeable thing is the numbers coming here are way down and the ones that did lost jobs left the country.

Your claim that Limerick is a desirable place to be is not borne out by property prices which are on a par with Waterford and well below Galway and Cork. Property prices reveal either the desirability of a location, or a very limited supply of accomodation. I refuse to believe that there is any part of the country with an undersupply of accomodation.


How come Galway has higher house prices than Cork. Why has Galway higher house prices than Kerrry. Kerry is more desirable than all 3. So your argument here is flawed.

I've explained this argument already. You seem to have ignored my points. Limerick is the third wealthiest county in terms of GDP spending after Dubin and Kildare. Limerick is a very wealthy city. House prices has risen alot in the last 3 years and has been the most stable of the 4 major urban centres over the 3 year period. Not anyone elses fault that you are blinded by this reality. Limerick is a desirable location Have you seen North Circular road in Limerick it's millionaires row. Drive by Cratloe and the hills is ditted with millionaire mansions. THe reality is most of the really wealthly Limerick people live in Adare, Cratloe, Caherconrlish, Castleconnel, Sixmilebridge, Killaloe, O Brien'sbridge. To finalise my point. Look at the regeneration of the city that has come from private local developers. This city has been given the cold shoulder by the government for many years. It was private investment that kick started the boom there. This will tell you that there is confidence, optimism and a desireability to live here. Business is business.


I totally accept that we Corkonians have a hugely inflated sense of who we are, but you know something, your hyperbole in relation to Limerick prove to me that we are not alone.
No, I don't agree with your undermining attitude towards Limerick, at expense to your inflated sense of gobeenism. I don't live in Limerick either:)


BTW I get the impression that you do not really belong in the real world and are something of a Walter Mitty character. Good luck to you, and off to the Limerick forum with you.
Maybe you don't live in reality at all? The personal jabs was a bit of a dig.

I get the feeling that, this has turned idiotic. A normal dicussion that was turned into a rant, and no one provoked it as much as you. I made my points on the thread and defending Limerick when you made up biased points that were not entirely accurate.

Two other people had to correct your careless "little facts"

Case closed.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Leesider » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:21 am

Back to Cork developments, 2 cranes have gone up opposite the grey hound track in Curraheen, anyone know what is being built there??

PS Cork v Limerick in the munster football final, whoever wins has the bestest city! :-)
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby sovereign12 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:34 pm

Those two cranes opposite the dog track are for the constuction of the new saint patricks hospice which is due to open in 2011. I have'nt got any pics at the moment but from what I saw in an artists rendering it looks pretty good.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby ToMuchFreeTime » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:26 pm

I;m not sure how many private hospitals are being built in cork city at the moment but can think of 4 of them off the top of my head. are they all needed? why don't they just build one big one?

Here is a link to the new saint patrick hospice. http://www.stpatricksmarymount.ie/news-dev.html
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby rofbp » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:35 pm

ToMuchFreeTime wrote:I;m not sure how many private hospitals are being built in cork city at the moment but can think of 4 of them off the top of my head. are they all needed? why don't they just build one big one?


they build separate ones because they are competing businesses, not because there is an actual need.

the hospice looks good, and is badly needed, as the old marymount hospice doesn't physically meet 21st century needs.

pity there isnt a bit more land with the new site, to create a parkland area for residents.

anyone know what they are proposing to do with the old hospice? a hotel or maybe apartments i suppose, in order to part-fund the new building?
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby jungle » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:16 am

I'm open to correction on this, but I'm not sure they're closing the old hospice.

As for the private hospitals, one explanation is that it's the developers latest greatest plan to get themselves out of their mess. The only problem is they're looking to build hospitals that are too small and in inappropriate locations. They'd be better off just going down the line of a super-GP clinic, like you see in the US, where you get a large number of GPs under the one roof, with other diagnostic facilities not available in a standard GP surgery.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Pug » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:38 pm

McCarthy Developments were granted planning by the county council to demolish the existing FAI grounds in bishopstown and build 140 student and staff apartments, retail space, bank, restaurant and science and technology floor space in six 4-storey buildings and a 2 storey building with 465 car spaces
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:52 pm

How come Galway has higher house prices than Cork. Why has Galway higher house prices than Kerrry. Kerry is more desirable than all 3. So your argument here is flawed.

Cork has the second highest house prices in the country after Dublin, as you would expect.
So why are property prices in Limerick so low? Why are they as low as Waterford?
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby dave123 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:50 pm

mickeydocs wrote:How come Galway has higher house prices than Cork. Why has Galway higher house prices than Kerrry. Kerry is more desirable than all 3. So your argument here is flawed.

Cork has the second highest house prices in the country after Dublin, as you would expect.
So why are property prices in Limerick so low? Why are they as low as Waterford?


For years Galway was the highest for house prices outside of Dublin:)


You need to start accepting reality! Not everything in life is determined by the size of cities.:rolleyes: Shannon has a bigger Airport than Cork.. So what.
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Re: Developments in Cork

Postby sovereign12 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:44 pm

Shannon may have a marginally bigger airport terminal but I think you'll find last year cork overtook shannon in passenger numbers to become the second airport in the state
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