O' Connell Street, Dublin

Re: O' Connell Street

Postby missarchi » Mon May 25, 2009 11:59 pm

C'etait un Rendezvous is the name of the movie...
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby damnedarchitect » Tue May 26, 2009 4:20 am

That sign is absolutely disgusting. What are signs for? To tell you where you are. What language do the vast majority of people (residents and tourists) speak or understand? English. As if the council's inconsistent approach to signage - signs on some streets, with others you might as well just guess - wasn't crap enough. I have nothing against Irish appearing on signs in equal font size. Though I have always wondered why it has to be first. I do not speak Irish, nor to most of the people I know. I do love Irish, but again I do not speak it. This, I would go as far to say, is probably fairly typical of most Irish people.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby jdivision » Tue May 26, 2009 3:53 pm

Satrastar wrote:Whether in common usage or not, it is part of Irish culture and Irish heritage and should be given the recognition it deserves.

It has equal treatment so what more do you want? Millions upon millions is wasted every day on translating documents which hardly anybody will read in Irish. Even in the Gaeltacht areas I've been to, most people speak English on a daily basis.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby ac1976 » Tue May 26, 2009 4:39 pm

The Street sinage in Dublin City Center is probably worthy of its own discussion thread.
For my 2 cents I think we should have much more appealing sinage, similar to the signs in Chapelizod.
I cant find an example of this but there are many different styles in use around dublin

They are mostly pretty ugly...
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Ok that one was a joke, but the next style used for the GPO would be look perfect at either end of the street:
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby magwea » Tue May 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Although, not so good for motorists I'm still a fan of these.

Image

Image
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby lauder » Tue May 26, 2009 11:52 pm

ac1976 wrote:The Street sinage in Dublin City Center is probably worthy of its own discussion thread.
For my 2 cents I think we should have much more appealing sinage, similar to the signs in Chapelizod.
I cant find an example of this but there are many different styles in use around dublin

They are mostly pretty ugly...


[ATTACH]9648[/ATTACH]
Ok that one was a joke, but the next style used for the GPO would be look perfect at either end of the street:


I really cant see why we shouldnt copy the London signs, they are brilliant and clear and always visible, in most cases you find it difficult to identify what street you are on in Dublin. Dublin City COuncil should get on to Boris in London and get some of those street signs.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby constat » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:08 pm

igy wrote:Not that i want this thread to veer off-course into an Irish language discussion, but I disagree about making the signs English only.

Even if you ignore any heritage, preservation or language-encouragement, at the very least we should have standard street signs with both languages for the benefit of visitors.
The Oxford Street example above is something that's done (in my brief experience of London) well and consistently.
I struggle to think of any category of street furniture or signs in Ireland that are either consistent or well maintanted.
Maybe a standard street sign in city center areas (I'm not advocating removing the very old ones by the way) is to be encouraged? I can't imagine leaving Irish out of that.


I’ll give you one reason, but it is A personal one; when is the last time you heard anyone asking for a pint, a news paper or a packet of fags in irish in Dublin? Personally speaking, I’ve never heard anyone speaking the thing (in Dublin). My Grandmother, who was born in 1891 in Dublin, and lived to the ripe old age of 104 years, never spoke a word of it. As an infant, I was often beaten to a pulp to learn it by some mad (Christian) brother from Cork who also taught us that Cork was the capital of Ireland !!
It is as alien as Russian to me when I see it on road signs in Dublin! If it is to be preserved, so be it, as long as it’s not in my city: Dublin!
Rant terminated.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby alonso » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:46 pm

bollox....Dublin city i$ my capital too and I vvould like both language$ di$played. I've heard it $poken in the city and i ain't 104

(orry the e$$ and double u are broken on my keyboard)
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby jimg » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:59 am

I love the Irish language but I dislike the semi-jingoistic and historically illiterate way it is often promoted. In this case, I have no sympathy for this sign placement. Irish has simply never been a working language of Dublin city during its history. Artificially imposing Irish names with dubious or no provenance on geographical features represents a somewhat pathetically futile attempt at linguistic imperialism. Why not just accept that this Island has had many languages (not just English and Irish) each of which has it's own culture, history and value?

In contrast, having spent some time in a particular part of the country, I would know the Irish names of not only the villages and townlands but even of seemingly random sections of road or collections of fields which had been endowed with names. The Irish names belonged in this case - they were part of the culture, had been in use for centuries at least and in many cases could be sensibly interpreted and meant something. In contrast, "Sraid Ui Connaill Iocht" is just makey-upey bollox and has nothing to do with the the Irish language or its promotion. If this is seen as promoting Irish or this is the sort of thing promoters of Irish spend their time doing, then no wonder it's in such poor shape.

The whole idea is completely misplaced anyway and represents an ignorance of the factors which allow "small" languages to flourish; there are examples in Europe of such small languages dominating without having a written form at all. Being plastered all over signs in the form of made up names for places is not a necessary condition for a language to be widely used.

The broader exercise is linguistically suspect in the extreme particularly with dictionary translations of English names which often result in incongruous unusable results or the phonetic transcription using Irish spelling which seems completely pointless. What does it achieve to use Irish spelling to badly represent English words and sounds?
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby constat » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:35 pm

alonso wrote:bollox....Dublin city i$ my capital too and I vvould like both language$ di$played. I've heard it $poken in the city and i ain't 104

(orry the e$$ and double u are broken on my keyboard)


Va te faire cuire un oeuf !!
Mon clavier AZERTY a l'aire d'avoir quelques soucis également mec!
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby alonso » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:55 pm

$omething to do vvith an egg and a french keyboard?
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby GregF » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:57 pm

See that the botchers and the butchers are digging up parts of O'Connell Street. Making a right mess too as they arse around meddling with underground pipes.

They are also in action too on Dame Street, botching and butchering right on the new plaza beside City Hall and that incongruous odd looking new building.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby missarchi » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:31 am

GregF wrote:See that the botchers and the butchers are digging up parts of O'Connell Street. Making a right mess too as they arse around meddling with underground pipes.

They are also in action too on Dame Street, botching and butchering right on the new plaza beside City Hall and that incongruous odd looking new building.


that's why you have underground trenches....
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby urbanisto » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:21 am

I actually thought they were doing an okay job. Carefully taking up paving and relaying it. Its baffling why our raods constanly need to be dug up (Henry Street for example) but at least they are doing it properly.
The works on City Hall plaza are for the bike scheme (whcih incidentially are also being done to a high standard)
Another noticable job is the new bus gate at College Green.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby EIA340600 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:04 pm

jimg,

"Sraid Ui Connaill Iochtarach" is not "makey-up bollocks".On the contrary O' Connell is a make-do translation from the IRISH surname "Ui Connaill".Just as "Teach Saggard" isn't a botched translation of Saggart Village.It is the opposite.Saggart village is a botched translation of "Teach Saggard".
Iochtarach means lower.
Sraid means street.
Although I do understand your point that O' Connell street never had an Irish name.
In fairness though that sign should be removed.It is litter, vandalism.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby Morlan » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:14 pm

EIA340600 wrote:Although I do understand your point that O' Connell street never had an Irish name.



Thomas Street (and Dame St.) was 'Slíghe Mhór', an ancient route that ran west out of the city. One of the very few Dublin streets that actually has an original Gaelic name.

Anyway.. shouldn't we have a seperate thread for all this?
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby lostexpectation » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:32 pm

i think the idea of them putting up their own sign was to hurry up the council in replacing it with a proper 50/50 sign.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:46 pm

alonso wrote:bollox....Dublin city i$ my capital too and I vvould like both language$ di$played. I've heard it $poken in the city and i ain't 104

(orry the e$$ and double u are broken on my keyboard)


Would you not use the on-screen keyboard? They would have the S and W on it.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby JoePublic » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:00 pm

Cathal Dunne wrote:Would you not use the on-screen keyboard? They would have the S and W on it.


Would suggest highlighting and stealing someone else's 's', with ctrl-c and ctrl-v

You can have one of mine, I'm feeling generous: sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby alonso » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:02 pm

Cathal Dunne wrote:Would you not use the on-screen keyboard? They would have the S and W on it.


the vhat novv? Onscreen keyboard? the S is back novv but no double u
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby Cathal Dunne » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:21 pm

alonso wrote:the vhat novv? Onscreen keyboard? the S is back novv but no double u


I'm using Windows XP so this is how you access the onscreen keyboard on mine;

1.Click "Start"
2.Click on "Control Panel"
3.Click "Accessibility Options"
4.Click on "On-Screen Keyboard" which should be on the left-hand side

The on-screen keyboard will then ppear and you will be able to type as many of these wwwwwwwwwww as you want!
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby magwea » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:32 pm

As part of the graduate show in NCAD there is a small piece on Irish road signage that's worth checking out, the show finishes on the 14th so you have to be quick. It looks into the history of the signage typography, Ireland for example uses the English signage TRANSPORT font, and has examples of how other countries deal with dual language signage (welsh, greek,...).

There is no great discussion about the use of Irish place names -the existing legislation is pretty much accepted- the emphasis of the study is on clarity and design.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby pippin101 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:48 pm

lauder wrote:I really cant see why we shouldnt copy the London signs, they are brilliant and clear and always visible, in most cases you find it difficult to identify what street you are on in Dublin. Dublin City COuncil should get on to Boris in London and get some of those street signs.

The idea that the solution to a problem is to copy what someone else did is rubbish. We have a system, we just don't apply it correctly. Let's apply it correctly, fill in missing signs, and then we'll be doing OK. No need for new designs. Irish is already given prominence on Dublin street signage (it appears first), there is no need to make any changes.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby lostexpectation » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:09 pm

david norris on hook on newstalk talking about making the gpo into the new abbey theatre, he says there is room, and that he got bolten street architecture students do it as the final year project, anyone familiar with bolten street find out more about that and if we can see them, not much on their site.
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Re: O' Connell Street

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:28 pm

lostexpectation wrote:david norris on hook on newstalk talking about making the gpo into the new abbey theatre, he says there is room, and that he got bolten street architecture students do it as the final year project, anyone familiar with bolten street find out more about that and if we can see on not much on their site.


Bad idea. There needs to be a really good cultural institution in the docklands.
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