ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby alonso » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:14 pm

lostexpectation wrote:please when and where can we round up all of the people responsible for the current hq and throw rotten fruit at them



CJH and Big Sam? Both no longer with us
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:16 pm

ratsam wrote:It'd be nice to see a HDM building built in Ireland.


I'm sure the DDDA is working on it as we speak. :rolleyes:
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby tommyt » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:00 pm

alonso wrote:CJH and Big Sam? Both no longer with us



You have my full support if you wanna go piss on Neil Blaney's grave as well if you've got the inkling for such behaviour.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby lostexpectation » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:24 pm

what about the big shots in esb, are those involved in the present hq still around
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby alonso » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:35 pm

tommyt wrote:You have my full support if you wanna go piss on Neil Blaney's grave as well if you've got the inkling for such behaviour.


if I can manage it after leaving 6 pints worth on Charlie's
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby missarchi » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:28 am

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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby gunter » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:28 am

Anyone know what the brief is?

I imagine item no. 1 may be:

[INDENT]'contestants will provide one squillion sq.m. of office space'.[/INDENT]

The laugh is that this will probably end up in the bin with Sean Dunne's 'architectural' competition winner for the Ballsbridge site, after Bord Pleanála have held it up to the light:)

. . . although mightn't be so humorous if we all end up forking out a few more quid on our electric bills to pay for it!
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:32 am

I published the brief in this mornings newsletter...... maybe you should register....

http://ireland.archiseek.com/news/2009/000123.pdf
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby missarchi » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:13 pm

95% government...

It is also envisaged that an hourly rate applicable to the different architectural professional
grades will be submitted as part of the indicative fee proposal to allow for other services
that may arise during the course of the design process such as attendance at any oral
hearing.

a rate for life would be good! I'm not sure about Ireland but there is a minimum architects salary in other parts of the world that is different to the minimum wage? There is no architects union and architects don't protest they listen to teachers;)
good luck to who ever fills in those forms!
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby gunter » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:06 pm

Thanks for posting the . . . 'Strictly Private and Confidential' . . . . brief :), I hadn't spotted that!

Note that section C; Final Pass/Fail Criterion states:

''Provision of satisfactory references attesting to the applicant having previously delivered comparable design and development projects successfully and the manner in which the services were delivered''

A bit like the Sydney authorities precluding Jorn Utzon because he hadn't done any other opera houses!

If I'm reading this right the competition is intended to produce three winners, is that the way others read it?

. . . but it's not a proper two-stage competition, the picking of the chosed architect from this ''winning'' three doesn't seem to involve any further design consideration!!!

Presumably costs, including fees, are intended to be the suject of the final battle to the death. I notice that enclosed (and sealed) fee submissions are not intended to impact on the initial choice of the ''winning'' three designs, but I didn't see anything precluding a Dutch auction after that.

. . . not that architect fees should even enter this equation, this should be about righting a wrong, not about creating another opportunity to out-do the wrong already done.

I don't know, I think archiseek is going to have to host it's own parallel virtual competition, for those of us whose turn-over dips slightly under the €2.5 million :)
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:35 pm

Alternative Ideas Competition for the ESB HQ

Due to the overly restrictive nature of the ESB-run competition to design a new headquarters for their Fitzwilliam Street site, Archiseek.com is inviting all architects (and not just those with huge financial resources) to demonstrate their ideas for the site.

Ideas can be presented as a quick sketch, or a finished rendering, and all submissions will be published online at Archiseek.com. Unfortunately there is no prize fund, and we can categorically state that there is no chance of it being built. Just back in the adulation of your peers.

This is a chance for all firms to demonstrate the creativity that the ESB has chosen to ignore.

Send your entries to
pclerkin@archiseek.com
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby gunter » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:15 pm

No rules! . . . . I like that :)

Image

Can re re-use the official site map?

Note: the few Georgian houses that the ESB didn't manage to knock down the first time round are shaded in brown, just in case anyone wants to do a Sam Stephenson on them!
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby lostexpectation » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:20 pm

theres goes riai's revenue stream, they'll want a charge a fee for your comp too
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby Devin » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:39 pm

So what are we looking at here ..... really? Reinstatement of the facade and roof profile, and aatrium behind linking to new building?

It's the one everyone talks about when justification for replica is mentioned ..
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:53 pm

Devin wrote:Reinstatement of the facade and roof profile, and aatrium behind linking to new building?

It's the one everyone talks about when justification for replica is mentioned


Can't see scope for anything less to fitzwilliam street ...
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby PTB » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:57 pm

Anyone listen to Sean O'Laoire on Radio One this morning? Spoke well on why the competition is unfair.

Thank god he didn't go off on some hideous tangent and start talking about rabbit populations in Westmeath or the guatamalan sugar crisis of '78 as he is prone to doing.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby lostexpectation » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:12 pm

what show as that?
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby what? » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:05 pm

Blind replication of the facades would be a massive step back for architecture in Ireland. The replicated Georgian facades on lower pembroke road are offensive.

There is no doubt Fitzwilliam St. facade requires more a more subtle rhythmic/ textural treatment than the purely oblique formal interpretation that's there now, but replication however tempting is not the long term solution.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby JoePublic » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:41 pm

what? wrote:Blind replication of the facades would be a massive step back for architecture in Ireland. The replicated Georgian facades on lower pembroke road are offensive.


Offensive to the 0.1% of the population who are architects, and pleasing to the 99.9% who aren't.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby missarchi » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:59 pm

what? wrote:Blind replication of the facades would be a massive step back for architecture in Ireland. The replicated Georgian facades on lower pembroke road are offensive.

There is no doubt Fitzwilliam St. facade requires more a more subtle rhythmic/ textural treatment than the purely oblique formal interpretation that's there now, but replication however tempting is not the long term solution.


I think we will get a varied material pallet based on the old lots for fitzy.
Georgian facade in wood, georgian facade in brick vertical bond ect

The old blocko could come into play behind but with ellipse or hexagon roofs sections...

The building might even look a mutant plant... edouard-francois would be nice

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=426&storycode=3142031&channel=783&c=2&encCode=00000000019a8195
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:00 pm

what wrote:but replication however tempting is not the long term solution.


yes it is, otherwise we'll be having the same discussion / competition in 50 years when whatever 'form' is inserted meets the scorn of the next generation wearing their 2060 tinted goggles.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby what? » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:15 pm

Replication is fundamentally wrong.

Instead of adding to history, it undermines it.

The 99.9% of people who believe the replicas are real, believe a lie.

Truth is beauty, however ugly it may be.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:42 pm

what? wrote:Replication is fundamentally wrong.

Instead of adding to history, it undermines it.

The 99.9% of people who believe the replicas are real, believe a lie.

Truth is beauty, however ugly it may be.


Well if you believe that the original streetscape had an aesthetic unity which will never be recreated by modern infill, then our dedication to beauty ought to lead us to recreating it. Even if the buildings aren't original, they serve an aesthetic purpose as part of an integrated whole. I know contemporary architecture may, to the detriment of the city, focus on heterogeneous streetscapes as a reflection of modern times. But to apply this to every situation, regardless of context, is ideological extremism and in this situation unquestionably wrong.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby tommyt » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:50 pm

Peter Fitz wrote:yes it is, otherwise we'll be having the same discussion / competition in 50 years when whatever 'form' is inserted meets the scorn of the next generation wearing their 2060 tinted goggles.


Fully endorsed. What has stood the test of time better post-WW II bombardment; the continental or British approach to rebuilding? Simplistic litmus test but one which stands up imo.
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Re: ESB Headquarters Fitzwilliam Street

Postby what? » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:53 pm

I am not advocating a jarring 'signature' building here.

I am saying that a visually sensitive response is needed.

I am also saying that historical recreations anywhere, equate to a distortion of history more deeply disturbing than any facile disunity created by a modern building in a historical setting.
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