Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:14 pm

notjim wrote:G mc: can I withdraw my support above for your use of the word fear?


ddda said in their submission that the place the sculpture is preposed would be the best location because of our low level buildings.These !BUILDINGS! are our homes .We have an unspoilt veiw and when this monster goes ahead we will be living in a bird cage.Now we have found that a preposed buliding on the corner of sir john rodgerson quay is to go 6 or 7 stories high which will in return limit the effect the sculpture will have .The sculpture was supossed to be;; a charcoal drawing against the sky;; but that will not be if they start building as high as the sculpture itself
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby shanekeane » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:31 am

Edited by Archiseek.com - no need for rudeness
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby JoePublic » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:34 am

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the CHILDREN
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby PTB » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:44 am

G mc wrote:THE FEARS are that the local lads that swim in the liffey will try to climb it and there will be an injury or god forbid a drowning.Before anybody says they wont climb it look at the structure and you will see that they have a perfect ladder to do it.


But with rather gigantic rungs.

I used to live in area where there was electricity pylons going up and the locals, my parents included, were up in arms, arguing that young fellas, such as I, would be spending the long summer days clambering up and down these structures, creating great risk for ourselves and any sheep or cows that may be unfortunate enough to happen to be passing beneath the pylons as we would be making our inevitably rapid descent to our deaths. These allegations proved to be untrue since myself and other local lads had the good sense not to go galloping up electricity pylons. May I suggest that the people of your locality may have the faith in those lads that swim in the liffey, that they will not undertake such foolish things

P.S. Theres anti climb paint four meters up the base of the sculpture.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby PTB » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:04 am

[attach]9035[/attach]

They're not really very fundamental objections. The traffic disruption will pass and the footpaths will be restored.Overshadowing isn't really a problem with wireframe sculptures

These, I think, are more valid objections.
http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00210436.pdf

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00211993.pdf

Especially about the bird droppings not being cleaned off the head
[ATTACH]9037[/ATTACH]
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cleaner.jpg
cleaner.jpg (79.95 KiB) Viewed 2116 times
objection.jpg
objection.jpg (92.37 KiB) Viewed 2116 times
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby reddy » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:08 am

shanekeane wrote:Tough shit. You should move to some Victorian suburb, you'd be happier.


Thats a ridiculous comment. Spanner.

People have every right to voice concerns over planning applications - maybe a lot of the tripe built in this country would not have been built if people took a more active interest in their built environment.

I don't agree with the objection in this case myself but don't be such a condescending little knob.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby ctesiphon » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:38 am

Spot on, reddy.

G mc wrote:ddda said in their submission that the place the sculpture is preposed would be the best location because of our low level buildings.These !BUILDINGS! are our homes .We have an unspoilt veiw and when this monster goes ahead we will be living in a bird cage.Now we have found that a preposed buliding on the corner of sir john rodgerson quay is to go 6 or 7 stories high which will in return limit the effect the sculpture will have .The sculpture was supossed to be;; a charcoal drawing against the sky;; but that will not be if they start building as high as the sculpture itself


G mc-

A 7 storey building would only be about half the height of the sculpture.

Also- views from people's homes are not protected under planning (or any other) law.

Overshadowing is in principle a valid reason to object, but not in this case.

And I fail to see how a sculpture will worsen the traffic conditions or the cycling environment (which is piss poor already).

I'm not sure I fully agree with PTB re the other objections, though. They're certainly more detailed, but the Terry Durney one (the man responsible for the height cap in the DDDA Masterplan, let's not forget) contains the gem: 'Gigantism has been discredited in Western Europe because of its associations with totalitarian regimes', whilst TPA goes for its usual 'Why send two pages where seven will do?' approach. Still, the points re the EIS are bang on.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby GrahamH » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:45 am

It really is outstandingly enormous isn't it?

I think it raises significant concerns in the clutter generated with the adjacent bridges which are/going to be similarly finely wrought. And gunter, the comment about its positioning refers not so much on local level (in terms of the alignment with Lombard Street) but the wider context of the Liffey. Positioning something along a long stretch of river is so arbitrary that it could be plonked anywhere. There is no signifcance about this site other than it's the closest part of the Docklands to the city centre. It needs a more relevant site.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby jdivision » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:26 pm

Your point about local lads climbing up it are ludicrous to be honest. Why build a road cos cars might have an accident. Why build a building cos people could climb it and jump off. If people are thick enough to do it, well what can you do

G mc wrote:ddda said in their submission that the place the sculpture is preposed would be the best location because of our low level buildings.These !BUILDINGS! are our homes .We have an unspoilt veiw and when this monster goes ahead we will be living in a bird cage.


So they're moving your homes INTO the sculpture. Wow, I'd object too.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:47 pm

PTB wrote:But with rather gigantic rungs.

I used to live in area where there was electricity pylons going up and the locals, my parents included, were up in arms, arguing that young fellas, such as I, would be spending the long summer days clambering up and down these structures, creating great risk for ourselves and any sheep or cows that may be unfortunate enough to happen to be passing beneath the pylons as we would be making our inevitably rapid descent to our deaths. These allegations proved to be untrue since myself and other local lads had the good sense not to go galloping up electricity pylons. May I suggest that the people of your locality may have the faith in those lads that swim in the liffey, that they will not undertake such foolish things

P.S. Theres anti climb paint four meters up the base of the sculpture.


anti climb paint?????????????????
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby PTB » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:56 pm

Yeah, paint that dosn't dry but stays in a thick oily layer that is not conductive to climbing things, given it's slippiness and the way it ruins clothes.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby gunter » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:10 pm

GrahamH wrote:And gunter, the comment about its positioning refers not so much on local level (in terms of the alignment with Lombard Street) but the wider context of the Liffey. Positioning something along a long stretch of river is so arbitrary that it could be plonked anywhere. There is no signifcance about this site other than it's the closest part of the Docklands to the city centre. It needs a more relevant site.


I still don't know about that Graham.

This is the weakest stretch of the Quays (no offence to G mc) in urban design terms with a huge sweeping opening to Lombard Street and the adjacent low three storey terrace. Surely this is the right place, in design terms, to locate a major object like this?

Add in the vista factor (currently closed by Jury's Inn, need we say more). Is there a better location in terms of vista in the docklands?

'it's the closest part of the Docklands to the city centre', as you've correctly pointed out. It is also the point where the character of the riverscape changes.

It's a location, pretty tight up to the new pedestrian bridge, that would appear to interfere least with shipping, berthing etc.

Add in the other reasons MurrayMints listed and you've got a pretty good case for this being a good site.

Either way, I don't think it's really fair to say that this site is 'random'!

Does it ruin the vista down the Liffey? . . . I just can't see that either. It's going to read as a sculptural object in the river, not a change in the urban landscape, and if it doesn't work we can get rid of it in ten years time!

Like a lot of people, I've always liked Gormley's art, because it's figurative and crafted. In my book, this puts Gormley in a different league to the other big names, and while I wouldn't normally be a cheerleader for DDDA, I was kinda of the view that this was one that they got about right.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:28 pm

jdivision wrote:Your point about local lads climbing up it are ludicrous to be honest. Why build a road cos cars might have an accident. Why build a building cos people could climb it and jump off. If people are thick enough to do it, well what can you do



So they're moving your homes INTO the sculpture. Wow, I'd object too.


its not ludicrous the lads are all ready jumping off the new bridge and the old ddda offices so they will see this as a challange to each other.DDDA said the lads will not be able to access the structure but then said they will put grab hooks in case anybody falls in to the liffey.We know we are not entiteled to the veiw but the Quay wall and the river are suppossed to be protected.The river is for boats and swimmers and should ramain so.DDDA never took a photo from our Quay but from all other places that it does not effect. Anti climb paint does not work in a water envioriment.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby tommyt » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:29 pm

I'm still in the sceptics wing regarding the Slashman. I was coming around slowly to this until I thought about the advertising potential this has. Is there a condition in the PP against signage? The thing will be shrouded constantly in some sort of bumph- be it commercial revenue raising shite or some advertising for the latest DDDA event.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby lostexpectation » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:42 pm

G mc wrote:Anti climb paint does not work in a water enviroment.



how do you know, which type of paint are they using.

if you spoke to the proposers, what did they say about ever moving its position.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Adolf Luas » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:49 pm

Almost immediately after Calatrava's bridge was opened there was great concern as to the safety of local kids who would would apparently feel compelled to climb or crawl the bridge's arched structure and then fall into the traffic below. Talk of a re-design or modification was reported in the press. Despite the apparent ease of accessibility, I've never seen anyone climb or attempt to climb the James Joyce Bridge.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:05 pm

lostexpectation wrote:how do you know, which type of paint are they using.

if you spoke to the proposers, what did they say about ever moving its position.


They said this location was best to bring people to the docklands.we had a talk about the paint and they said they would have to reapply the paint regulary.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:11 pm

Adolf Luas wrote:Almost immediately after Calatrava's bridge was opened there was great concern as to the safety of local kids who would would apparently feel compelled to climb or crawl the bridge's arched structure and then fall into the traffic below. Talk of a re-design or modification was reported in the press. Despite the apparent ease of accessibility, I've never seen anyone climb or attempt to climb the James Joyce Bridge.

The local lads have climbed and jumped off the highest point of the Sean O Casey bridge
Was the James Joyce Bridge not refitted with horizonal bars on the arch so the lads could not slide down it?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:11 pm

I was in a shop today and saw pencils for sale: I was shocked. Imagine the damage someone, a child even, could do if they sharpened one of these pencils and rammed it forcefully in to their own eye: unilateral blindness, a lobotomy, even death.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:29 pm

Adolf Luas wrote:Almost immediately after Calatrava's bridge was opened there was great concern as to the safety of local kids who would would apparently feel compelled to climb or crawl the bridge's arched structure and then fall into the traffic below. Talk of a re-design or modification was reported in the press. Despite the apparent ease of accessibility, I've never seen anyone climb or attempt to climb the James Joyce Bridge.


actually i have, in the months after it opened... but designing all the potential risks out of structure is madness.

how many buildings in Dublin are earthquake proof? there might be and earthquake anyday you know....
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby cgcsb » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:42 pm

If that's a genuine concern, why don't the parents of the area wrap their children in cotton wool or insist the DDDA put padding on all the buildings. If it were in the country, would you insist the council move a cliff face incase their children felt compelled to climb it. Why make special alowances for people who do stupid things?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby lauder » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:05 pm

cgcsb wrote:If that's a genuine concern, why don't the parents of the area wrap their children in cotton wool or insist the DDDA put padding on all the buildings. If it were in the country, would you insist the council move a cliff face incase their children felt compelled to climb it. Why make special alowances for people who do stupid things?


Here here. If people are stupid enough to climb the sculpture, fall and hurt (of kill) themselves it is their own fault not the sculptures fault.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby G mc » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:21 pm

cgcsb wrote:If that's a genuine concern, why don't the parents of the area wrap their children in cotton wool or insist the DDDA put padding on all the buildings. If it were in the country, would you insist the council move a cliff face incase their children felt compelled to climb it. Why make special alowances for people who do stupid things?

The ddda had 3 other locations in mind for this but choose here in spite off objections
the other locations were in places that offices are placed and were harder to access as for cliffs man or councils did not make them but this monster is going to be and will be climbed
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby lostexpectation » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:49 pm

what ya think of its aesthetics g mc
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Morlan » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:36 pm

Rough montage - 44m heigh.

Image
Source © brian807

This is the Spire all over again: A decent monument in a dreadful location.

Perhaps this would be better suited for Point Village or GDC. Macken St. bridge will help to break up the monotony along the quays here.
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