Irishtown

Re: Irishtown

Postby alonso » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:11 am

tommyt wrote:How terribly common - I would hazard a pretty strong guess that SRFC were founded on the doorstep of some gaff on that road,but actually having a home:confused:

The lack of panache was there from the start unlike the illustrious Bohemian Football Club, founded in the gatekeepers lodge of the Phoenix Park 11 years previous:p


:) What's that old derisory tv punditry saying tommyt?

"You'd see better football on a Sunday mornin on the 15 acres!"

Now I know the true origin of the saying. (Last night's result aside:confused:)
:(
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Re: Irishtown

Postby alonso » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:40 am

gunter wrote:I think you're right there alonso, there's a street on the 1887 map that runs up from Irishtown Road to the Dodder, where Stella Gardens are now, it's called something 'Avenue', I'm missing that bit of the map.

I thought that it was Shelbourne who were associated with Irishtown! Didn't they play at the old Irishtown Stadium?

I know Paul Cleary of the 'The Blades' was a useful footballer until he went off with his brother Lar to found the best Dublin band of the 80s. They lived at 33 Bath Street before they moved down market (gedit) to Ringsend. You don't see those lads thrashing any (protected structure) hotels.


they played at Irishtown for one season. it never worked out and they abandoned it (good ol wiki) - but their real home ground was Shelbourne Park in the beginning. They also played in Harold's Cross before taking over Tolka. The history of the League of Ireland and the stadiums, clubs, names etc etc is the most complex web that could possibly be weaved. In my lifetike SRFC have played "home" games at Milltown, RDS, Tolka Park, Dalymount, Morton Stadium Santry and as of March, Tallaght. 6 locations with only 2 of them close together in any way, both homes of rivals,
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:54 pm

Don't know if I would agree that Clondalkin Garda station is superior to Irishtown. Your one looks like an office block, ours looks like an arthouse cinema. Getting nicked in Irishtown will be like going to the pictures.

Here's a few more pics of good vernacular houses in Irishtown that together with the endangered ones at 11 & 13 Bath Street, constitute, with the street patterns, the real essence of the place.

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The view south down Bath Street with the former post office on the corner on the left and the interesting three storey (possibly gabled) house behind it facing down the street now confronted by that new terrace with the bulging, nearly blank, gable wall onto the Bath Street.

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Further down Bath Street at the point where the frontage turns in slightly (suggestive of a widening to create some sort of earlier market space). I can distinctly remember the day that one of these two fine brick houses got it's fake stone facing to look as smart as it's neighbour. To get a good key, the 'builder' scored the brickwork with a Kango hammer in great diagonal scars. I don't think that would ever happen today. Today they would just knock the houses down as 'uneconomical to renovate'.

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A nice pair at the widest part of the Bath Street set-back. Front doors separated by just the width of the party wall can be an early 18th century feature, but everything else looks early 19th century.

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A very interesting 5 bay at the top of Pembroke Street with very small first floor window dimensions and altered ground floor windows (possibly lost shopfronts).

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The door of the Pembroke Street 5 bay (can't decide if it's stone of stucco) and the fine 18th century door case to no. 35 Bath Street.

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The Pembroke Street 5 Bay is attached to this. I think this pub used to be called Seapoint House and beneath all the accretions are probably the remains of the 18th / 19th century frontage that appears on the 1849 map and which signalled the entry point to the village from the Ringsend direction. I can't find any old photographs of Seapoint House, but I have a very dim recollection of a low two storey stucco facade with a lot of windows at odd spacings.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby alonso » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:20 pm

I also have a dim recollection of a fatal stabbing there a few years ago. I could be mistaken but it may have been shut ever since?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0601/kavanaghj.html

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Re: Irishtown

Postby johnglas » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:57 pm

Gunter: re the fyfestone facing and the mani(a)c hammerman builder; I've noticed in trips to Amsterdam that many of the old brick facades are actually painted (usually in a very dark grey/brown or even black), so if you are prepared to accept a bit of touching-up (if you know what I mean), even destroyed facades can be rescued to some extent. Assuming you get the fyfestone off, of course (which begs the question of why it was ever done in the first place).
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Re: Irishtown

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:19 am

560k for the post office, if anyone's curious.

Gunter- would you say Irishtown ends at the junction of Londonbridge Road and Tritonville Avenue? One of my favourite buildings in the area is the old farmhouse just south of that junction, on the western side of the road. It's the bright orange one set back from the road. According to a local a few years ago (my brother used to live across the road), the farmhouse stood on that site for years surrounded by fields. This would suggest that the house is a good deal older than the adjacent ones, but the age is hard to work out. Any thoughts or info? It looks early 20th century, but it could be one of those deceptively modern Victorian ones.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:26 am

johnglas wrote: re the fyfestone facing and the mani(a)c hammerman builder;


Fyfestone johnglas? that stuff has a name!

My memory of these houses was that their original brickwork had always been heavily over-painted in thick gloss paint and my hope would be that the Kango hammer scoring was blunted by the paint layers. Having said that, I do remember shards of brick flying across the street.

In an ideal world, special places like Irishtown would benefit from the attention and expertise of a dedicated team in the City council who would advise property owners and potential developers on how best to address issues like this and also nip proposals like the one for 11 / 13 Bath Street in the bud.

ctesiphon wrote:would you say Irishtown ends at the junction of Londonbridge Road and Tritonville Avenue? One of my favourite buildings in the area is the old farmhouse just south of that junction, on the western side of the road. It's the bright orange one set back from the road.


Tritonville Road is 100% Sandymount, you would set off coronary alerts if you even mentioned the word Irishtown.

If you mean the bright orange (brick) house, ctesiphon, I'm pretty sure it's just 1930s. In contrast to the granite heads over the window opes, there's a long, slightly saggy, concrete head over the garage, but otherwise there's nothing to indicate that the garage isn't original, so definitely 1930s, I would say. BTW, there's nothing here on the 1849 map. They were really nice people in that house, they used to give us a lift to school on really wet days, nice old Jaguar, if I recall.

The old Post Office, 'might suit builder for townhouse development'! This is another reason why the right decision on 11 / 13 Bath Street is so important.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:12 am

gunter wrote:If you mean the bright orange (brick) house, ctesiphon, I'm pretty sure it's just 1930s. In contrast to the granite heads over the window opes, there's a long, slightly saggy, concrete head over the garage, but otherwise there's nothing to indicate that the garage isn't original, so definitely 1930s, I would say. BTW, there's nothing here on the 1849 map. They were really nice people in that house, they used to give us a lift to school on really wet days, nice old Jaguar, if I recall.


Cheers. That's the one. My gut feeling was 1930s, but I couldn't reconcile it with the previous statement re 'when I were a lad, this were all fields' (;)) and I wasn't sure if I could see it on your map (above). The terrace opposite is certainly missing from your map, though the terraced single-storey over basement houses on the south-east corner of the Bath/Tritonville junction are in place.

Tritonville Road, btw, must be one of the very few roads in the whole city that is not a complete strip- it's 'broken' at the junction where the old Presbyterian church stood.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:56 pm

How did they get away with knocking that Presbyterian church? it was a perfect little train-set church. One of the last 'Dry Rot' demolitions, if I recall. Brian Ridout would have humiliated them in an oral hearing.

More grim news on the Irishtown front, the demolition of 11 & 13 Bath Street has gone for Additional Information as well.

What's that song from Oklahoma?

One crumb of comfort, under the heading 'Principle of Demolition', the planner's report states:

The applicant has submitted a Condition Report illustrating the current poor condition of both houses to demonstrate that demolition of these houses is justified. It is considered that whilst the applicant states structural reasons for the demolition of these two buildings the need for a further investigation in the historical background of these buildings would better inform the Planning Authorities assessment of the proposal'.

Well I did say a crumb of comfort.

The problem with this application is that there is now no safety net. There were no objections in the five weeks so there can be no third party appeal. A decision by DCC to permit this demolition would be the final decision.

Since I had to dig out Brooking's map for the other thread, here's a poor quality copy of the top left corner of his 'Prospect of the City of Dublin from the North', showing the village of Ringsend at the end of the quay wall, with Irishtown just beyond it, clustered around the distinctive square tower of St. Mathew's church.

Image

It might be very vague in detail, but the extent to which the village was developed, by 1728, is unmistakable.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby alonso » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:30 pm

The Dodder was called the "Donney Brook River"... huh, Donney Brook - so that's where it came from. Wonder what Donny was -is the Irish for Donnybrook Domhnach Broc? According to wiki it means Church of St Broc. Now I'm really confused. Is that a rebastardisation back into Irish? Coz Donney Brook makes sense in English for a river's name.

I give up. Anyone willing or able to shed light?
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Re: Irishtown

Postby SeamusOG » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:32 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Tritonville Road, btw, must be one of the very few roads in the whole city that is not a complete strip- it's 'broken' at the junction where the old Presbyterian church stood.

Yes, that little stretch between the former church and the garda station really feels more like Sandymount Road. I've been told that the house on the bend - at the 'break' - was formerly the coastguard's house, which (if true) shows how much land has been reclaimed over the years.

Gunter: is it true that ships/boats used to tie up at the back of the church in Irishtown? I've also been told that there's a ring for this purpose built into the wall of the church, though I've never seen it.

Ctesiphon: perhaps 'broken' streets/roads could be worthy of its own thread.:) Would you consider Pembroke Road to be 'broken'?
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Re: Irishtown

Postby alonso » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:45 pm

yeh open a new thread on that alright - Stradbrook Road in Blackrock is another. Although a whole thread on this topic may up the "nerd" aspect of this forum. Seamus I'll have a look around that church if i get a chance or remember
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:00 pm

On 11 - 13 Bath Street, (Reg. no. 3285/08) the Additional Information went back in on 17 Dec.

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The proposal is to demolish these two houses and basically build two replacement houses in a broadly similar style.

The planning application attracted no objections, at the time, but the fact that the site is located in the centre of the village of Irishtown, the existing houses are covered by a 'Conservation Area' zoning, and that the houses appear to incorporate early features, it seemed reasonable to question the appropriateness of the development.

Probably entirely by chance, Additional Information was sought by the Planners, on two counts:

[INDENT](1) That a proper building assessment of the existing structures 'in the historical context' be submitted, and,
(2) That some side windows at the back be reassessed to prevent over-looking.[/INDENT]

Leaving the back window issue aside, that historical context and building ''Assessment Report'' has now been submitted, (or at least that's what it says on the cover page)!

I want to say at the out-set that I do understand the importance of not getting too stressed . . . . but come on:

[INDENT]'There is a certain feeling of ''age'' about them, perhaps given by the odd floor plans and small scale of all the rooms, which is not fulfilled by close examination'.

'It has proved impossible to assess the original internal arrangements, and indeed external appearance, due to the extensive and ruinous alterations they have both suffered over the years.'

'Their cultural significance or ''quality'' is virtually non-existent.'

'The general small scale and paucity of surviving [original?] features indicate that the houses were built for the lower end of the social scale . . '

'The interiors have a mean quality that is not helped by the low ceiling heights throughout . . .'[/INDENT]


The report goes on to suggest that, as the proposed replacement houses have ''a front elevation replicating the existing, so that there would be no change on the street frontage and general appearance'', (not actually true), what's the problem basically.

No more than our learned friend, (a Grade 1, Conservation Architect, with offices on one of our better Georgian streets), I don't claim to know the construction date of these two houses, but I think we can rule out the 20th century, despite the evidence of all the 1960s tiled fireplaces noted in the report, and apart from the chimney stacks and probably the in-fill rear extensions, I'd be inclined to rule out the 19th century also, which leaves us with the 18th century!

The report records that the exterior is cement rendered, but it doesn't point out that red brickwork, over a rough stone plinth, clearly peeps through the render in a couple of places, or that the low ceiling heights are indicative of an early date, rather than necessarily indicative of mean structures for the lower orders.

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The floor plans submitted by the applicants with the ground floor above and the first floor below. I've put a red line around what I think is the outline of the original construction.

Together, the two houses present a rare, unified, seven bay, frontage to the street and the clear suggestion from the plans is that the original arrangement was, while just one room deep (with stairwell returns projecting out from the original rear wall), prestigious in the context of the village of Irishtown. I also wouldn't rule out the distinct possibility (not addressed in the assessment report) that these houses originally had another floor, or an attic storey, based on the suggestion from the external appearance that the stairwells rose to at least another half landing over first floor level, as noted before.

The question I would ask is: What is the evidence that 11 & 13 Bath Street are not the oldest houses in Irishtown?
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Re: Irishtown

Postby nneligan » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:43 pm

The new police station is a disaster, I was very sorry to see the Arts & Crafts building go. However, I still haven't forgiven the demolition of the church that inhabited the corner of Tritonville Road that was replaced about six or seven years ago with an appalling development. Anyone, with pictures of the old Presbyterian Church, before and after.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:28 pm

What is the bloody point of having a desigination ''Conservation Area''?
What's it supposed to mean?

Why do they even bother colouring up the maps to give a zoning objective of ''Residential Conservation'' (Z2), to particular structures and not others, if you can just come along and get planning permission to knock the structures down after you've let them get a bit delapidated for a couple of years?

What's the bloody point of looking for a ''full historical assessment of the structures . . to include . . an architectural history of the application site and details of the context in which the site was developed'', if, when it comes in, and it's clearly as lame as a three legged dog, it still gets accepted as if it was a thesis from UNESCO?

Ten days before the deadline, the Planning Dept. have gone ahead and granted permission for the demolition of 11 & 13 Bath Street !

The case officer was originally Emma Deane and now it's given as Pat Ewen.

This is bitterly disappointing. Pat Ewen is normally a safe pair of hands, he's a well respected planning officer, and, unusually for a planning official, he seems to have remained in the same role (and mostly the same area) for about twenty years. What seems to have happened here is that he's just trusted in what the A.I. requested Historical Assessment Report told him:

[INDENT]''This history report has been read and considered and (we?) concur with contents of it''.[/INDENT]

If we exonorate the planning officer, then the vilian has to be the experienced professional who wrote that ''Historical Assessment Report''! IMO, this individual has serious questions to answer, as do the RIAI who appear to have bestowed a ''Conservation, Grade 1'' qualification on him.

The point here is that places like Irishtown which have what, six hundred years of heritage behind them, have inherent qualities that make them special and worthy of lavishing all those high sounding Development Plan phrases on them in the first place, phrases like: 'Protected Structure' and 'Architectural Conservation' and 'Zone of Archaeological Interest'.

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Dublin City Council's current zoning map! (horizontal red hatching is ''Conservation area'', Deeper yellow is Z2, ''Residential Conservation'', and the broken heavy blue line is ''Zone of Archaeological Interest''

Some of these inherent qualities, like the early street patterns, can survive a certain amount of site clearance and new build, if it's done well, and some of the inherent qualities just depend on there being surviving building stock remaining to illustrate the historic depth in the urban fabric and to delight with their patina and their period details, as GrahamH might say.

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Aerial view of Irishtown from the west with Bath Street running from left to right, forming the spine of the village.

In nos. 11 & 13 Bath Street, we're clearly dealing with two of the oldest houses in Irishtown, houses which display fascinating and unusual plan features, and houses that, even the woefully lazy and inadequate ''Historic Assessment Report'' concedes, haven't yet revealed all their secrets.

In any civilized country, these would be the last houses that you would ever permit to be demolished, especially to be replaced by an insipid half mock-up of themselves.

Which ever way you look at it, either we need a better planning system, or we need a higher standard of Building Assessment Report, or preferably both.



nneligan wrote:The new police station is a disaster, I was very sorry to see the Arts & Crafts building go. .


This seems a bit trivial now, but I think the pictures posted earlier in the thread show the new Garda Station to be a pretty decent building. Opinions differ I guess.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:52 pm

Need gunter’s observations be even noted as echoed. What exactly does "which is not fulfilled by close examination" mean? Even taking them as a pair of Edwardian summer houses, they would have "an appearance of age", never mind being of at least 19th century origin. How old does something have to be to be considered an OAP these days? All other quoted observations appear to be based on a comparison with the Provost’s House, as one encounters time and time again with vernacular houses about to be whacked.

Often what gives an indication of a building’s date, especially when difficult to decipher, is not the original fabric but the later additions. The very fact that there are alterations to a structure is indication in itself that an earlier building is likely to have been modified in some way, but being able to pinpoint the date of the alterations aids matter further, such as the commonplace early 19th century modification of c. 1700 buildings. Buildings tend to have a life of a century or so of cosmetic adjustment before major structural intervention is required/desired. In the case of Bath Street, I’d agree the grandiose double height structure to the rear is almost certainly an infill of an earlier pair of houses. The fact that this addition dates to the late 19th century, possibly c. 1870s, as with the roof structure, chimneystacks, shopfront, flat panel doors and two-over-two timber sashes, suggests these houses were first built in the mid-late 18th century and later significantly aggrandised. The ambitious number of windows to the upper storeys alone suggests modification, while the unifying render (which does not appear to be cement) pasted over old and new structures was a common post-alteration ploy.

As much as I’d like to bank on the corner chimneybreasts as being original, they do look like an awkward Victorian modification. I have come across such random stacks in Victorian buildings as late as the 1880s; they appear to have been handy solutions for small rooms. However it’s impossible to tell in this case – certainly they’re an alarm bell-ringer!

As for conservation reports and assessments on a wider level, generally speaking they mean nothing, save the historical anecdotes to lift a planner’s coffee break. All objectivity flies out the window when beholden to a client: in the big consortium cases there’s enormous money at stake, while for the small scale like this, repeat business is everything. It’s a crying shame – the client might as well write it themselves.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:50 am

. . . and if they're planning to knock the buildings anyway, what's the big deal about knocking a bit of the render off?

There'd be clues aplenty if we could get a look at the brickwork!

They don't want to find anything, that's the problem!
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Re: Irishtown

Postby alonso » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:16 pm

given the day that's in it, perhaps a slight alteration to the name of Bar(r)ack Lane - between Irishtown Road and Bath Avenue - may be necessary to get the desired level of protection for this old district....
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:24 pm

GrahamH wrote:Often what gives an indication of a building’s date, especially when difficult to decipher, is not the original fabric but the later additions


That's a very good point, and one that seems to have escaped our Grade One friend.

GrahamH wrote:. . . . In the case of Bath Street, I’d agree the grandiose double height structure to the rear is almost certainly an infill of an earlier pair of houses. The fact that this addition dates to the late 19th century, possibly c. 1870s, as with the roof structure, chimneystacks, shopfront, flat panel doors and two-over-two timber sashes, suggests these houses were first built in the mid-late 18th century and later significantly aggrandised.


It looks like the in-filling between the stairwell returns is earlier than that!

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Nos. 11 & 13 are marked with a red X.

I found this great map of Irishtown dated 1831 and it shows a flat rear profile to these houses, corresponding exactly to the current arrangement. The map looks pretty detailed and acurate in it's representations of rear returns elsewhere in the village, so I think we're entitled to conclude that the existing rear in-fill extensions had been built by 1831.

Given the considerable difference in scale and detail of the extensions from the original, anything less than a fifty year gap, would seem very unlikely. That gives us a construction date for the houses of 1780 at the lastest.

The detail on this copy of the map is a bit unclear, but I think the notation on the property reads 'Alex. Worthington, Sundry Tenements'.

'Tenement', along with 'Messauge' was a common notation for houses at the time, but I think it would still indicate that the properties, unlike those with individual names attached, were rented premises, possibly in multiple occupancy.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby irishguy » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:48 pm

Does anyone know what the plans are for george reynolds flats in ringsend. Just passed there and it looks like they are knocking them all down.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:58 am

gunter wrote:I found this great map of Irishtown dated 1831 and it shows a flat rear profile to these houses, corresponding exactly to the current arrangement. The map looks pretty detailed and acurate in it's representations of rear returns elsewhere in the village, so I think we're entitled to conclude that the existing rear in-fill extensions had been built by 1831.



Aha most interesting. However, to throw a spanner in the works, it is entirely possible the infilled structure the map depicts is single-storey to the rear. Personally I think this more likely, as it was very common for such houses to be one room deep with a single-storey abutment at the back. This would also explain the semi-independent character of the stair projections, if they were once taller than an adjacent structure. It's difficult to be sure going by the pictures alone, but it's impossible to believe that the rear structure in all its gradiosity dates to pre-1830, unless it was an original part of the house. Either way, the windows and doors are all considerably later.

I'm going to suggest that a single-storey extension was built up to first floor level in the late 19th century. This would help explain its considerable and 'well built' character, and also the dense array of windows to the front of the buildings which also hint at a comprehensive reordering of first floor accommodation.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:03 pm

GrahamH wrote:. . . the dense array of windows to the front of the buildings . . . . also hint at a comprehensive reordering of first floor accommodation.


I'm not sure I buy that Graham, if they had ''comprehensively reordered'' the first floor, surely they would have put a new simple roof on the extended and squared up houses at the same time, not roofed the extensions separately?

To my mind, it's the number and spacing of the windows on the street facade that is one of the strongest indicators of an early (mid 18th century?) date! that and the low ground floor cill heights, the low floor to ceiling heights, the single room depth, the projecting returns and the suggested red brick over rubble stone plinth construction.

That brickwork that peeps out through the cracks in the render looks older than Victorian to me, and it's not yellowish either, i.e. not from the local Sandymount brickworks of the 19th century!

Image Image Image Image

By chance, a bit of render fell off the corner the other day and it appears that the rubble stone plint is a bit higher than I would have expected, but, then again, maybe we can explain this as a rough repair to a damaged corner given that the house is on the corner of a narrow lane (Alonso's Barack Lane) where cart wheel damage wouldn't be unusual.

Obviously, I could be completely wrong about all of this.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:13 pm

Well this is turning into a bit of a saga isn't it?

gunter wrote:surely they would have put a new simple roof on the extended and squared up houses at the same time, not roofed the extensions separately?


I doubt it in this case. It would make more sense, from a cost perspective anyway, to simply retain what was there and insert an independent new-built in their midst. Unlike today with our twenty-year colour guarantee slate muck, and cheap, easily sourced materials, it was very common (need it even be said) for older structures to be simply worked around - especially true of returns such as these, where the modernising requirements of the new accommodation were not required to be applied to such ancillary spaces.

Fair point about the density of the windows. I suppose there's two ways at looking at that: 1) they're early because of their cumbersome clustering, or 2) they're much later because of such an ambitious number of prized windows in such a modest building.

Do you think the houses were originally of exposed red brick, gunter? Or always rendered but built out of red brick? It's also possible the whole buildings are of rubble stone with just the window surrounds of brick, as was the norm...

Taking into account the resources of the people who owned and lived in these buildings, it's hard to believe that there was more than one wave of redevelopment over the course of the 19th century. Given the windows, doors and chimneys clearly date from the late 19th century, it can only be reasonably assumed that the upper part of the rear extension - if it even is an extension - dates from this time. This in turn would suggest the houses were built about 100 years beforehand. A supposition based on a supposition, but sure we have to start somewhere...

By chance, a bit of render fell off the corner the other day


Indeed.
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Re: Irishtown

Postby gunter » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:28 am

GrahamH wrote:Do you think the houses were originally of exposed red brick, gunter? Or always rendered but built out of red brick?


I was thinking the brickwork was the probable finish throughout.

I was half hoping that we could pin these down to the early 1700s, that they were survivors of the Irishtown of Brookings view, the building period that saw the construction of the new church.

I've known these houses all my life, It's just really frustating not to be able to unravel their story and knowing that they can now be demolished without ever doing them the courtesy of finding out how old they are.

Possibly a bit undignified to become emotional about a couple grubby old houses!
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Re: Irishtown

Postby GrahamH » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:50 pm

Ah well, at least through exposed foundations and loose rubble we'll have a better idea of the significance of what stood on the site once it's demolished.
GrahamH
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