The Opera Centre

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:12 am

Confirmation of the Irish Georgian Society appeal to An Bord Pleanala.

The case is due to be decided by 13-02-2009.
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:38 am

I had a look at the DouglasWallace website and found this.

Its basically just a load of annoying PR nonsense but anyway...


Situated in the heart of Limerick’s historic quarter the Opera centre will lead the regeneration of a city centre in a state of decline. The proposal creates an outstanding retail experience and with the enthusiastic support of the all the stakeholders will provide a bright future for the people of Limerick.

Externally the proposal consists of ground level shop units opening onto the street, their display and activity expressed and reinforced through the glass and metal facade framed over with signage. The area above street level is punctured by a series of protruding lightboxes and retail display to create rhythm and verticality which help to break down the scale of the facade to match the urban grain of the surrounding Georgian plot pattern. The restaurant is emphasised by projecting out it’s double height space and this marked focus helps to express the associated activity and use externally to the streetscape.

The materials used are planar glazing, fritted opaque glazed cladding, aluminium cladding and white/grey limestone cladding with the opaque glass and aluminium cladding used primarily at ground floor level. Above, a banded cut ashlar stone is used, in keeping with stone used in buildings of importance in the Georgian streetscape. This stone façade is then punctured to preserve the lightness of the building.

Internally the circulation areas are treated more as a streetscape than a traditional mall. The glazed roof creates a visible connection with outside and provides large amounts of natural light. Walkways guide the visitor through the space with crossing bridges providing intrigue and invite use of the upper levels.


  • 40,000m2 of retail space arranged over 3 No. levels with exciting ‘streetscape’ circulation areas
  • create new public spaces which are sadly lacking in the existing city centre as nodal points along pedestrian circulation routes and form a relationship with the river
  • inviting entrance areas encouraging visitors to enter the centre
  • roof garden and food court for social and leisure activities increasing footfall to the upper l
    evels
  • sculptural café pavilion in riverside public space
  • 500 spaces in basement parking to enhance the parking already provided within the city centre.



Attached are mock-ups of the Bank Place and Ellen Street entrances along with the rooftop garden.:rolleyes:
Attachments
Opera Centre Bank Place.jpg
Opera Centre Bank Place.jpg (67.71 KiB) Viewed 6411 times
Opera Centre Entrance.jpg
Opera Centre Entrance.jpg (80.97 KiB) Viewed 6412 times
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:40 pm

Truly hideous, and it would be a scar on the streetscape. The run down buildings *almost* look better! Certainly they probably look better even in current condition than all that light coloured structure will in anything from months to years when the weather gets hold of it (probably months - look at that place on bedford row - magically modern buildings are somehow expected not to need gutters or some arrangement of the facade that dirty water doesn't run down it).

Just a glorified 21st century Arthur's Quay...
KeepAnEyeOnBob
Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:11 pm
Location: Limerick

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:43 pm

You have to love the way they've photoshopped a couple of quaint litttle Georgian buildings into the background of the Ellen Street shot. In reality the site where those imaginary buildings stand is currently occupied by a surface car park and a service yard for a nightclub and a pub!:rolleyes:

Note also how the buildings on the right hand site of Ellen Street have had their pitched roofs magically re-instated at the click of a mouse!

Its just a pity they dont show a similiar interest in the buildings on the opposite side of the street!:mad:
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:49 pm

And it suffers from the usual lots of glass, which will be covered up by the retailers
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby gunter » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:35 am

Paul Clerkin wrote:And it suffers from the usual lots of glass, which will be covered up by the retailers


ImageImage
Views of the existing Streetscape.

Whatever about the individual quality of the 1990s in-fill, and not knowing the condition of the buildings/sites they replaced, at least they left the 'Georgian' streetscape repaired and largely intact.

Image

The 'Opera Centre' scheme goes for maximum impact by way of maximum contrast. The problem with this approach is that it robs the existing streetscape of it's recently mended coherence, it dates very quickly, the vast areas of glass never look as impressive in reality as they do in the developers' brochure, it invites misuse by retailers (as Paul said), and the glitzy new corners, instead of patinating into maturity, inevitably start the slow slide into shabbyness from the first day the scaffolding comes down.

Unfortunately, when the sky is that blue, the glass is that shimmering, and the virtual people look like they just strolled off the plane from Milan, it's hard not to be captivated by the images!
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby dave123 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:35 am

I like the sky view pic, I think it looks fantastic. It doesn't look cheapish at all. I do like how they incoparated the Georgian into the whole front of the complex.


Guy's would you f**** lay off the pognance for a while. Seroously. Like what are you looking for instead.


Irish people really have no innovation or radical minds. Really none of you have, none of you can come up with something bettter. But whinge all day long. Bottom line none of you will be happy. It's all so easy to be so negative. Every deveolopement will have its positive and negatives. Irish people prefare to sit all day and moan about how it's not up to the job. If you don't like it, come up with something better. If you don't have anything and you don't have your money out on the table. I suggest you shut up. Life goes on.


Will you all bloody smile for once.:rolleyes:
dave123
Senior Member
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:54 am
Location: Co. Dublin

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:53 am

dave123:

Seriously, it isn't hyperbole. Just look at the condition of buildings finished only months or a year or two ago, not to mention anything from the early 00s or 90s. They have barely been designed in a way that ensures they look good even in the short term, nevermind 5 or even 10 years (and really I see no reason why building in the city centre shouldn't be considered for 50 years at a minimum - it's quite wasteful to have this "disposable building" mentality).

Can you not bend your mind as to how the structures in the mock-up will look like in real life, and more particularly after just a couple months of exposure to the elements?

As for new ideas, I certainly do want to see some. How about instead of yet another iteration of the failed city-centre mall idea, we get more extensive pedestrianisation and some "anchor stores" for the city centre in general? Debenhams and Brown Thomas are absolutely pathetic compared to real department stores on the continent for example (I don't really have enough experience of the UK to compare - I'm guessing they are similarly miserable - that's where we've got all the same broken ideas that we've been using).
KeepAnEyeOnBob
Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:11 pm
Location: Limerick

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby gunter » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:37 pm

dave123 wrote:I like the sky view pic, I think it looks fantastic.

Guy's would you f**** lay off the pognance for a while. Seroously. Like what are you looking for instead.


It doesn't always have to be a debate about one extreme or the other, 'mock Georgians' or
'glass prisms', there's a whole range of contemporary architectural solutions that could announce the insertion of a new shopping district into a predominantly Georgian streetscape, without reaching for the glass cladding brochures.

This is a somewhat similar development situation snapped recently from a hoarding in Lubeck.

Image

I'm not sure if it's going to be entirely successful, but at least these guys had enough sense to limit the glass to a few featured openings in a otherwise stone facade, and they also managed to design the scheme with a contemporary reference to the Hanseatic gabled tradition that, in Lubeck, is the predominant architectural characteristic of the city. I also like the fact that their promotional image doesn't try to cod people that there will always be a Mediteranean sky!

I'm just posting it to demonstrate that there are other options.

To me, the images of the 'Opera Centre' ring all kinds of alarm bells that we haven't actually learned anything after 80 years of the Modern Movement. We still think that retaining any sense of a unified coherence to a city is backward looking, that keeping the odd disembodied facade is enough to retain 'the character' of a street, and that shopping centres are so important, and hard to find, that they need four storey, block and a half deep, illuminated glass entrances.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby vkid » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:01 pm

I don t see how that development would be in anyway better than whats on offer with the opera Centre. I dont see the issue with glass and if thats the alternative, give me the Opera Centre anyday.

That Lubeck design is truly hideous Gunter and I have to agree with Dave123..what exactly do ye want..restore georgian buildings to their original format, and be left with buildings that are about useful restored as they are in their current state. If people want new life in the city centre then compromise is needed but that yoke in Lubeck is not in any way appealing to me. I'd prefer the glass. People seem to have the idyllic notion of european developments being so much better when in my own experience in the likes of the Netherlands, Belgium, France and the UK there are way worse examples than whats being proposed here.

I cant say i'm sorry to see some of the Ellen Street buildings go either because its a horrid street. Dark, pokey and dingy, the street is too narrow and the light is blocked by the buildings height. Its the one street in the city with Georgian Stock that is just too narrow imo to carry the buildings well. Thats not because of modern developments either, it is a just a very narrow street relative to the likes of O'Connel street or William Street and is all the worse for it. I will be sorry to see the Quinns building go but thats about all..the rest no loss imo.

My only real concern with the Opera Centre is the rear of the development along side the Granary and the old Workspace..there's been little mention of that anywhere..and I'm curious to whats the plan for this aspect of the devlopment
vkid
Member
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:30 pm

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:12 pm

I'm sorry but all this talk about the demolition of one side of Ellen Street being in some way acceptable is absolute rubbish! Just how bland do you want this city to become? Demolition of historic streetscape is just not acceptable and especially not when its replacement is a garish plastic monstrosity. Anyone who thinks the proposal for Ellen Street is superior to the existing streetscape is seriously kidding themselves!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am in favour of the opera centre because I understand how important it is to the viability of the city centre but that dosent mean it should be allowed sweep all before it. I just don't get why we are so reluctant to retain perfectly good historic buildings in this country, we just cant be arsed it seems!:mad:

Some of you over enthusiastic supporters of this project need to realise that there are other issues here apart from just extra shopping space!

Remember back in 1987 Arthurs Quay was heralded as some kind of masterpiece in urban planning. It also involved the demolition of a number of georgian buildings (admittedly in poor shape but not beyond repair). Fast forward 20 short years or so and they are planning to pull the whole thing down again. Some masterplan that was!:rolleyes:
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:28 pm

The Vintage Club House of Quin/Garden World, Ellen Street (NIAH)

ImageImageImage

Image Image Image

Attached seven-bay three-storey over concealed basement limestone former bonded store, built c. 1760.

Appraisal
An attractive symmetrical limestone former bonded store. It is significant in terms of the quality of the external stonework. Now in use as a pub and garden shop, this structure adds variety both in height and materials to the streetscape.


See previous post: Opera Shopping Centre a watershed for Limericks Georgian Heritage?

Fact is once they are gone, up to two hundred and fifty years of history goes with them!
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby gunter » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:22 pm

vkid wrote:..what exactly do ye want..restore georgian buildings to their original format, and be left with buildings that are about useful restored as they are in their current state.


vkid, I think you're trying to set the urban debate back forty years. The building stock on Ellen St., Rutland St. Patrick St. etc. is part of the collective assets of Limerick City. If you dispose of these assets, you've got to be bloody sure that you've replaced them with someting of higher value.

I accept that the site could use a regeneration package, but I'd like to see it done in a way that protects and enhances the existing building stock, rather than a 1970s style scorched earth approach. Ok, it can be difficult to find good examples of how this is done well, because, of their nature, the good schemes don't shout out 'redevelopment' in the same way.

Image Image
This is an example of decent contemporary in-fill on O'Connell Street (by the same Limerick architects who are doing that scheme (with the medieval fireplace) at 36-39 Nicholas Street). There's no question that the architectural skill are there, what is required, is more hands-on guidance by the Planning authorities to set out the boundaries.

Surely an 'Opera Centre', with the same long term impact, could be delivered, that has three or four, high quality, contemporary interventions acting as gateways into the complex, through a retained and restored streetscape.

Sometimes, when you push the developer far enough, he realizes, later on, that being forced to address conservation challenges ends up with him creating a unique development, and he goes on to make more money . . . . (and the architects won't have to worry so much about meeting up with Sam Stephenson on judgement day).

The relative completeness of the 'Georgian city' in Limerick, from Bank Place to the Crescent, is quite impressive, but's it's a precarious thing, so much has been lost that it's very dificult to say at what point the legibility and coherence could also be lost.

Look at Bank Place, now reduced to just three 18th Century houses, when it was the glossy dust cover to the whole post-medieval 'new town'!

Image Image Image
[We'll come back to those tantalizing key stones and skew-backs and the similarities between the Bank Place terrace and the demolished George's Quay terrace opposite, on another thread.]

Tuborg wrote:I'm sorry but all this talk about the demolition of one side of Ellen Street being in some way acceptable is absolute rubbish! . . . . I am in favour of the opera centre because I understand how important it is to the viability of the city centre but that dosent mean it should be allowed sweep all before it. I just don't get why we are so reluctant to retain perfectly good historic buildings in this country,


That really is the point! If the demolition of a complete 'Georgian' terrace, like that on Ellen Street, was ruled out, the way it should have been, the developers would have had to work around it, from day one!

The way I understand it, the 'Opera Centre' has already been permitted and that what is proposed now are revisions to the approved development, is that the position, does anyone know?
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby jdivision » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:52 pm

gunter wrote:
Image Image
This is an example of decent contemporary in-fill on O'Connell Street (by the same Limerick architects who are doing that scheme (with the medieval fireplace) at 36-39 Nicholas Street). There's no question that the architectural skill are there, what is required, is more hands-on guidance by the Planning authorities to set out the boundaries.


Looks surprisingly like O'Connell Street in Dublin

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7494/shuedh7.jpg
jdivision
Senior Member
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:34 pm

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:52 pm

And a further example of where unregulated retailers get their way...

Why is it called the Opera Centre?
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:34 pm

gunter:

Can't say I'm a big fan of any infill in Limerick, but I'd certainly probably put that example ahead of other contenders, such as the hideous spectacle opposite the former Co. Co. offices further up the street.

It will probably look reasonable in another ten years too, which is saying more for it than many other new developments. The warm tan/cream colour seems to work far better than white in terms of simulataneously making things a bit less gloomy on a typical Limerick rainy day, but unlike the white, it's not quite as much begging to become a billboard to show up the grime.

Also rather good the way it keeps (or restores) the line at the top of the buildings between its two neighbours which are shorter than the adjoining terrace.

However, the random "boxes" for windows is not aesthetically pleasing enough for my liking, and fairly bland too despite the random element. It's not remotely on the same level as the pleasing arrangement of windows and detail on the adjoining two buildings. It does compare favorably though with infill I've seen on the continent in historic settings - it's probably about the best we can do other than reproductions (at least for facade).
KeepAnEyeOnBob
Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:11 pm
Location: Limerick

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby vkid » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:29 pm

gunter wrote:vkid, I think you're trying to set the urban debate back forty years. The building stock on Ellen St., Rutland St. Patrick St. etc. is part of the collective assets of Limerick City. If you dispose of these assets, you've got to be bloody sure that you've replaced them with someting of higher value.


Not my intention but i do think some level of compromise is needed and if any are to go(which in this country seems inevitable), then the buildings on Ellen Street would be my choice (Quinns/Vintage Club not included as already stated).

I just hate that street, georgian stock or not its horrible, and retaining those buildings is not going to make it any better imo. Even in the best Limerick Summer :D it is dark and grim and i really believe it is the width of the street that makes it so.

Again my opinion and sure we're all entitled to that..even if we have no real influence on the outcome.
vkid
Member
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:30 pm

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby gunter » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:52 pm

KeepAnEyeOnBob wrote:. . . a bit less gloomy on a typical Limerick rainy day . . .


vkid wrote: . . . even in the best Limerick Summer :D


Just remember I'm not the one who brought up the subject of rain ;)

. . . but since we're on the subject of rain, and at the risk of going slightly OT, how exactly did ye in Limerick dispose of your rainfall from the valleys of these double lateral pitched roofed Georgian terraces?

Image

Any ideas?

Or was rainfall so improbable that it didn't have to be factored in.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:51 pm

GrahamH wrote:And a further example of where unregulated retailers get their way...

Why is it called the Opera Centre?


Simply because the 19th Century Soprano Catherine Hayes was born at 4 Patrick Street. It's still a silly name though!

Catherine Hayes Website

gunter wrote:
If the demolition of a complete 'Georgian' terrace, like that on Ellen Street, was ruled out, the way it should have been, the developers would have had to work around it, from day one!

The way I understand it, the 'Opera Centre' has already been permitted and that what is proposed now are revisions to the approved development, is that the position, does anyone know?


The complex has indeed been given the go ahead as per the planning application. Limerick City Council's inability to safeguard buildings of historical or architectural merit is there for all to see! Once again they have given developers a licence to do as they please. It's the city planners that should be dictating to the developers exactly what type of development is acceptable and not the other way around!

It's interesting to note that under the original planning application back in late 2005, it was proposed to refurbish the Quins building (No. 9) and also to retain the facades of the Georgian terrace.

Here are some extracts from the An Bord Pleanala inspectors report (October 2006);


Ellen Street Appraisal

The laneway extending from the car park is book-ended on Ellen St. by the impressive 3-storey stone façade of No. 9, a building currently accommodating a public house/restaurant (which appeared closed) and a garden centre. This building is of visual quality but appears in need of refurbishment and rehabilitation.

To the north-west of the stone building, Nos. 4-8 Ellen St. comprise a generally intact Georgian terrace of good visual quality. Again, these buildings appear to be in need of significant rehabilitation, with extensive vegetation growing on their front facades, and with the original windows and shopfronts having been replaced by poor quality
and/or unremarkable modern interventions.

CONDITIONS

The front façades of the Georgian period buildings No’s 4, 5 and 6 Ellen Street shall be conserved and repaired and shall be integrated into the new build at ground floor level, so as to be active streetfronts.

The Georgian period buildings No’s 7, 8 and 9 Ellen Street shall be conserved and repaired, including the shopfront of No. 8. No’s 7 and 8 shall be laid out so as to open onto the street and onto the internal circulation mall of the proposed development.

Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby CologneMike » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:34 pm

gunter wrote:
Just remember I'm not the one who brought up the subject of rain ;)


What was the old saying Günter? . . . . . in Ireland it only rains twice a week: once for 3 days and once for 4!

gunter wrote:
. . . but since we're on the subject of rain, and at the risk of going slightly OT, how exactly did ye in Limerick dispose of your rainfall from the valleys of these double lateral pitched roofed Georgian terraces?

Any ideas?

Or was rainfall so improbable that it didn't have to be factored in.


Good question . . . . . . I presume there is a drainpipe system built into the chimney stack?

The mind boggles as to how their attics have escaped flooding over last 200+ years especially after an extreme thunder storm i.e. hail-stones followed by buckets of rain!

vkid wrote:I cant say i'm sorry to see some of the Ellen Street buildings go either because its a horrid street. Dark, pokey and dingy, the street is too narrow and the light is blocked by the buildings height. Its the one street in the city with Georgian Stock that is just too narrow imo to carry the buildings well. Thats not because of modern developments either, it is a just a very narrow street relative to the likes of O'Connel street or William Street and is all the worse for it. I will be sorry to see the Quinns building go but thats about all..the rest no loss imo.


Image
Entrance Ellen Street / Michael Street

Vkid, if Ellen Street suffers a lack of light due to the height of the existing buildings then surely this will deteriorate more as the new design is apparently higher than it is today. See image above and first image below.

The last image below is a fragment of the first design of Ellen Street. (Ignore that awful proposed entrance to it and Ignore the pedestrian bridge). At least one can imagine how these retained Georgian buildings and the cut-stone buildings could be integrated into the shopping centre. In my opinion if professionally done they would add a touch of real class / charm to the Opera Centre!
Attachments
EllenStreetSecondDesign.jpg
EllenStreetSecondDesign.jpg (103.52 KiB) Viewed 6334 times
EllenStreetFirstDesign.jpg
EllenStreetFirstDesign.jpg (248.11 KiB) Viewed 6337 times
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby shanekeane » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:02 pm

vkid wrote:Not my intention but i do think some level of compromise is needed and if any are to go(which in this country seems inevitable), then the buildings on Ellen Street would be my choice (Quinns/Vintage Club not included as already stated).

I just hate that street, georgian stock or not its horrible, and retaining those buildings is not going to make it any better imo. Even in the best Limerick Summer :D it is dark and grim and i really believe it is the width of the street that makes it so.

Again my opinion and sure we're all entitled to that..even if we have no real influence on the outcome.


Go to Temple Bar in Dublin and see numerous pokey little lanes which are absolutely charming and full of Georgian buildings. The only reason Ellen Street looks dingy is that it's got a tiny footpath, there are no standards for shopfronts, and it's got trees growing out of its buildings. Clean it up a bit and widen the footpaths (or pedestrianize it) and it'll look great.
shanekeane
Member
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 1:41 pm

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:53 pm

This is just a rough sketch I slapped together just to give people an idea of the scale of the opera centre and the impact it would have on the streetscape if it was to proceed in its current form.

It's pretty dramatic!
Attachments
Opera Centre As Proposed.JPG
Opera Centre As Proposed.JPG (103.45 KiB) Viewed 6315 times
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby Tuborg » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am

At long long last Limerick City Council have got their act together and launched a proper digital planning system, so you can now view the planning files online!:eek:

[url=http://www.limerick.ie/ePlan/SearchTypes.aspx?sitemap=2"]ePlan[/url]

Attached are some of the scanned CGI's from the Opera Centre application.

#1. Ellen Street elevation

#2. Bank Place entrance & plaza area

#3. Rutland Street elevation

#4. Glazed entrance feature to replace existing Bruce House.

Just a couple of quick observations, That glazed infill building adjacent to the old town hall is much worse that I first thought and those modern shopfronts on the Georgian period buildings look absolutely ridiculous!
Attachments
Opera Centre 1.jpg
Opera Centre 1.jpg (81.06 KiB) Viewed 6295 times
Opera Centre II.jpg
Opera Centre II.jpg (83.14 KiB) Viewed 6291 times
Opera Centre 3.jpg
Opera Centre 3.jpg (74.77 KiB) Viewed 6291 times
Opera Centre 4.jpg
Opera Centre 4.jpg (61.96 KiB) Viewed 6290 times
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby gunter » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:30 pm

Tuborg wrote:Just a couple of quick observations, That glazed infill building adjacent to the old town hall is much worse that I first thought and those modern shopfronts on the Georgian period buildings look absolutely ridiculous!


Even allowing that the last three photo-montages come out of some CGI bargain basement and, it has to be said, they're not doing the scheme any favours, surely the Opera Centre's scale of flashy intervention is way too much, and would be far too dominant and therefore destructive of the coherence of the streetscape

I know that Lubeck example didn't go down too well:rolleyes:, but here's an indisputably top-notch example of how to do this kind of thing from Nurnberg.

Image Image Image

OK it's a museum (Neues Museum of Art & Design, opened 2001), not a shopping centre, but the principal of creating dramatic contemporary entrances to open up back-land sites while, at the same time, maintaining a respectful presence in the streetscape, should still apply.

Two or three well crafted re-workings of the neo-Georgian bits of Patrick St./Rutland St., incorporating dramatic new entrances, would surely be a lot more successful, and less destructive of the street's character and coherence, than what's been proposed.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Opera Centre

Postby CologneMike » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:50 pm

Tuborg wrote:At long long last Limerick City Council have got their act together and launched a proper digital planning system, so you can now view the planning files online!:eek:


Indeed long overdue . . . . . hopefully it will produce more transparency for the general public.

Those modern shopfronts on the Georgian period buildings look absolutely ridiculous!


I’m very disappointed with them too, very sterile looking to be honest.

Limerick Leader updates . . . . . Opera Shopping Centre versus Coonagh Shopping Centre
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland