The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby missarchi » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:50 pm

Morlan wrote:Now we can see all the discarded Dutch Gold cans and other miscellaneous junk.


yeah it also has built in wind screen wipers! ;) and bird shit + leaf remover water jets...
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby missarchi » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:22 pm

The bank of Scotland doing mock ups... sorry about the quality
Attachments
er.JPG
er.JPG (211.15 KiB) Viewed 2552 times
hmm.JPG
hmm.JPG (236.71 KiB) Viewed 2548 times
out of focus.JPG
out of focus.JPG (198.97 KiB) Viewed 2543 times
um.JPG
um.JPG (217.72 KiB) Viewed 2545 times
IMG_3466.JPG
IMG_3466.JPG (225.55 KiB) Viewed 2541 times
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby fergalr » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:23 pm

It's going to be destroyed. Whatever comes back is going to be another of the undead parks, like Eyre Square.
fergalr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Howth, Co. Dublin

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby igy » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:36 pm

If what's put back is in any way representative of what was there before then we'll be fine; the space is too popular, central and also a good detour on many common walking routes for it to fall into disuse or lose its popularity.
igy
Member
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:09 pm
Location: Glas Naíon, BÁC 11

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Bago » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:06 pm

It could be an opportunity to replace some fairly bland decidious trees with a new mix of stately conifers, broadleaves and exotics,.... who am i kidding, the contract will go to contempary landscape architecture firm 'x' and we'll get angular paths in shiny chinese stone and 50 birch trees.
Bago
Member
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:10 am

igy wrote:If what's put back is in any way representative of what was there before then we'll be fine


Anything constructed can be put back more or less as is, but its clear now that all of trees on the north east corner will be felled.

Image


Everything lining the railings as far as the blue van, if not further is to go, and the park overall will always bear the scars of this serious mauling.

The contrast will be stark - The new batch of pavement lime trees planted by the OPW 4 or 5 years ago ( a fine job ) are also visible in the shot, if you get your microscope out - this is the average maturity of replacement we'll be getting once all is done.

Of course there'll be a few 25 - 30 year olds thrown in there so the RPA can say, look, see, no difference! but the truth is planting semi mature specimens is often unsuccessful, the tree itself will literally stand still for a number of years while it attempts to acclimatise, whereas the younger fella will establish quickly and get going.

We'll look back and wonder was there no alternative.
Peter Fitz
 

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby alonso » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:17 am

no we won't! we'll look back and say, like with every urban rail project, why didn't we do this 10 years earlier?
alonso
Senior Member
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby fergalr » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:31 pm

Did they do this in London when they laid out the Tube? Or in Paris with the Metro?
fergalr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Howth, Co. Dublin

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby alonso » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:01 pm

I don't know, but i'm sure there was some disruption. Does anyone know? Is it in any way relevant to this discussion?
alonso
Senior Member
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Fergal » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:04 pm

When they built the Paris metro, and the first lines of the London Underground they just dug up the streets. Here is a picture of the Paris metro under construction, to compare.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paris_Metro_construction_03300288-3.jpg
Fergal
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:27 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby fergalr » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:07 pm

I just can't help but notice that two of the world's largest subways run under two of the world's finest cities and were laid predominately over a century ago, without colossal disruption of prized city assets. Unless Hyde Park and the Tuileries Gardens were excavated... but somehow I don't think they were.

Not to mention, all the statues need to be taken down on O'Connell St? How close to the surface are they tunnelling? And if statues need to be taken down, what does that say for building foundations along the route.

Hopefully the economic collapse will rid us of this turbulent project. We'd get about ten Luas lines for the same cost.
fergalr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Howth, Co. Dublin

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby alonso » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:52 pm

the economic collpase does nothing but add to the urgency of public transport investment
alonso
Senior Member
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby cgcsb » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:03 pm

the London and Paris systems caused huge disruption. Probably not to parks as they were the stomping grounds of the rich. But certainly to the ordinary street scape. Almost all the city centre sections in both Cities were cut and cover. I don't think many people back then cared if a few trees were killed, they were more concerned with practical issues like putting food on the table and not contracting TB
cgcsb
Senior Member
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:24 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby weehamster » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:35 pm

:mad: I'm really starting to get pissed off at the moaners here who don't want this project for really petty reasons. So for ye, I will state the bleeding obvious.

DUBLIN WILL BE ECONOMICALLY UN-VIABLE TO WORK AND TO DO BUSINESS IN IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT THE CHRONIC TRAFFIC PROBLEM WHICH IS GETTING WORSE EVERY YEAR. SO GIVE IT A BREAK, GET REAL AND GET WITH THE PROGRAMME.

Luas is NOT good enough. If it was, they would have planned a cheaper low capacity Luas line instead a more expensive medium capacity Metro Tram line. Then there is the high capacity DART Interconnector, the most important of all the projects, without it the rail system in Dublin will grind to a halt due to congestion on the existing lines.

I not happy at what is happening to the Green, or the monuments/statues, but I know that in 25 years nobody would have given a shite as the statues and monuments will still be there, covered in bird shit and new trees in The Green would have started to mature. The difference this time is than we'll have 2 quality underground rail lines through the heart of the city and nobody will have remembered the inconvenience of the construction.
weehamster
Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:02 pm
Location: Cathair Bhaile Átha Cliath

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:25 pm

weehamster wrote:I'm really starting to get pissed off at the moaners here who don't want this project for really petty reasons.


You can put your block capitals away weehamster. Where did i state that i didn't want the project or that it wasn't necessary ? The interconnector and to a lesser extent, metro north, are crucial infrastructure projects for the city, thats not the issue. If you'd read back through any of the thread you'd realise that much of the comment was concerned with alternative construction sites to SSG that could be reinstated exactly as is, i.e. not permanently altered.

To see O'Connell Street being dug up again a few years after its been completed is frustrating, but necessary it seems, and anyway, nobody should know the difference once all is done.

Why the adjacent under utilised road space cannot be used to at least reduce the impact on the green has not been answered, and that is pretty much the point.
Peter Fitz
 

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Richie K » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:53 pm

At the end of the day, yeah parts of the Green will be temporarily disrupted but the Long Term benefits to Dublin could/ should be enormous. I for one am willing to put up with an untidy St Stephen's Green for a number of years if it is for the common good. It is more important now than ever to get the Interconnector and Metro North built. Terrible decisions in the past have left us where we are today, the result being a traffic ridden Dublin and virtually no Integration of Public Transport whatsoever
Richie K
Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:52 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby missarchi » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:41 am

The point he is making is that the RPA are required to demonstrate 2 options and they have not... that's the EU for you and that is what consultation is...
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby notjim » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:49 am

Richie K wrote:At the end of the day, yeah parts of the Green will be temporarily disrupted but the Long Term benefits to Dublin could/ should be enormous. I for one am willing to put up with an untidy St Stephen's Green for a number of years if it is for the common good. It is more important now than ever to get the Interconnector and Metro North built. Terrible decisions in the past have left us where we are today, the result being a traffic ridden Dublin and virtually no Integration of Public Transport whatsoever


but Richie K what you haven't discussed is how the LONG TERM BENEFIT to Dublin who be less if the workings were done in the Iveagh Gardens or if some such. Obviously it is too late for this debate, the tender documents have gone out and so on and so forth but it is silly to think the answer regarding the park has something to do with the long term benefit of the MN.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Fergal » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:28 am

The reason the Green will be dug up has nothing to do with the TBMs being removed, the Green is being dug up to build a station underneath. The actual tunnels themselves do not require much surface intrusion. Taking the TBMs out in the Iveagh Gardens would make no difference to the Green.
Fergal
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:27 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby cgcsb » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:16 pm

missarchi wrote:The point he is making is that the RPA are required to demonstrate 2 options and they have not... that's the EU for you and that is what consultation is...


during public consultation, the RPA presented three route options all terminating at Stephen's Green, therfore they have fullfilled that requirement, and a combination of two route options was selected based on the public consultation process
cgcsb
Senior Member
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:24 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby missarchi » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:59 pm

cgcsb wrote:during public consultation, the RPA presented three route options all terminating at Stephen's Green, therfore they have fullfilled that requirement, and a combination of two route options was selected based on the public consultation process


station options...;) which CIE have produced 3 for Heuston alone...

any way the CIE and RPA appear to be re tweaking there designs but I would only think minor things
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby SeamusOG » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:25 am

cgcsb wrote:during public consultation, the RPA presented three route options all terminating at Stephen's Green, therfore they have fullfilled that requirement, and a combination of two route options was selected based on the public consultation process

Indeed.

And, as they stated in the documentation, all of these three routes would terminate at St. Stephen's Green where they would be able to integrate with Irish Rail's proposed interconnector.

However, this all took place a full year before the interconnector route options had been presented to the public for any form of consultation.

When the various interconnector route "options" - all of them effectively the same - were eventually presented for consultation, interchange with the metro and LUAS at St. Stephen's Green was a key factor.

These were somewhat circular justifications presented by both Irish Rail and the RPA.

The critical factor, i.e. the location of the interchange, a topic which is very relevant to this thread and which quite obviously would have influenced both Irish Rail and the RPA in their choice of routes, was never subject to any consultation.
SeamusOG
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:59 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby Fergal » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:46 am

Stephen's Green was the only option for the Metro and Interconnector because it had to meet up with the Luas, and much more convenient for the main shopping, business, and nightlife areas than College Green, which is not much more then a big traffic junction these days.
Fergal
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:27 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby SeamusOG » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:55 am

Fergal, have you read the whole thread?
SeamusOG
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:59 pm

Re: The destruction of St. Stephen's Green

Postby alonso » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:56 am

Figures? Really? You need figures to prove that SSG and the area around it have more activity in retail, office employment and nightlife than College Green. Go for a walk.
alonso
Senior Member
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland