Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby mikes » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:55 pm

In these days of economic crisis as the exchequer is 7.5 billion in the red so the nation needs new sources of income. The will be tax rises, so rather than hike VAT and watch more people stream north, lets tax property: The time has come for Georgism. Henry George would advise us to tax Dartmouth square since "everyone owns what they create, but that everything found in nature, most importantly land, belongs equally to all humanity".

Would that solve the problem?
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Pot Noodle » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:29 pm

the hawk wrote:yes, that sounds reasonable. Do you think he will go for it? worth a try eh.He might agree to pay you in installments. What was that about deluded fools? Gormley has gone quiet again. No doubt he is still redrafting the constitution with the crayons fianna fail gave him. Bless him.




What are your plans or our you winging it
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby the hawk » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:01 am

mikes wrote:In these days of economic crisis as the exchequer is 7.5 billion in the red so the nation needs new sources of income. The will be tax rises, so rather than hike VAT and watch more people stream north, lets tax property: The time has come for Georgism. Henry George would advise us to tax Dartmouth square since "everyone owns what they create, but that everything found in nature, most importantly land, belongs equally to all humanity".

Would that solve the problem?


yeah dude, right on. roll us another one, and lets smoke it bono's back garden.The land belongs to us all equally,.....man.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby the hawk » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:11 am

Pot Noodle wrote:What are your plans or our you winging it


very sharp... "hawk", "winging it" .Superb wit. Well the truth is that being a culchie I am a bit gormless. Sure anyway, what need have i of plans, amint I flying anyway!
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Pot Noodle » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:22 am

No pun intended are you just gonna sit on it myself i would tend the park and keep the flack of me while i wheel and deal but that just me:rolleyes:
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby the hawk » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:05 pm

Pot Noodle wrote:No pun intended are you just gonna sit on it myself i would tend the park and keep the flack of me while i wheel and deal but that just me:rolleyes:


Pot, I have no connection to Mr O'Gara, I was just trying to introduce a note of levity.Under all my bluff I do have sympathy with the residents in general, but not those who seek to blame NOG. The buck has to stop with the City Council. If you are asking me if NOG would be better serve his strategy by tending his land I would say no. Why should he in the light of the bullying from the DCC and the vile personal comments visible on these pages.Perhaps if respect was afforded then negotiations could take place,but untill then this sorry saga will continue to fester .
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:48 pm

the hawk wrote:Pot, I have no connection to Mr O'Gara, I was just trying to introduce a note of levity.Under all my bluff I do have sympathy with the residents in general, but not those who seek to blame NOG. The buck has to stop with the City Council. If you are asking me if NOG would be better serve his strategy by tending his land I would say no. Why should he in the light of the bullying from the DCC and the vile personal comments visible on these pages.Perhaps if respect was afforded then negotiations could take place,but untill then this sorry saga will continue to fester .


what have you - sorry; has NOG - done to deserve this "respect"
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby the hawk » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:05 am

wearnicehats wrote:what have you - sorry; has NOG - done to deserve this "respect"


Apart from the downright evil, every human should be respected, and should not have to "do" anything to deserve that basic human right. You have a higher standard it seems, and while i do not agree with your sentiments, I will not disrespect you. I invite you to revisit some of the posts in this thread, and reflect on the vile name calling (scum etc.) directed at NOG. I wonder how well disposed he is to negotiate ? Do you really believe that you are furthering your cause with your hysterical reflex rants? A more considered approach by all (including NOG) would be refreshing
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:35 am

the hawk wrote:Apart from the downright evil, every human should be respected, and should not have to "do" anything to deserve that basic human right. You have a higher standard it seems, and while i do not agree with your sentiments, I will not disrespect you. I invite you to revisit some of the posts in this thread, and reflect on the vile name calling (scum etc.) directed at NOG. I wonder how well disposed he is to negotiate ? Do you really believe that you are furthering your cause with your hysterical reflex rants? A more considered approach by all (including NOG) would be refreshing


a person's basic right to respect is null and void if that person disrepects their peers. You therefore have to earn it back by your actions - something that NOG seems to have no concept of.


I don't have a cause - it just really saddens me that a nice space that I used to enjoy walking past has been allowed to degenerate into a total mess by someone who only cares about making a quick buck and irritating people for the hell of it. That to me makes him worthy of most, if not all, all the things that have been said about him in this thread. You are a lone voice of support - something that I imagine the same man wouldn't bother to thank you for either
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby the hawk » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:47 pm

a person's basic right to respect is null and void if that person disrepects their peers.

NOG may be guilty of disrespecting his property, but he has not disrespected any person. You on the other hand should look at yourself in the light of the above quote. A peer is either a member of the British nobility, or a person of equal social standing,class or age. We can safely rule out NOG from the former, and by your misguided moral compass it is acceptable to disrespect him if you consider him to be of a class other than yours.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:55 pm

the hawk wrote:a person's basic right to respect is null and void if that person disrepects their peers.

NOG may be guilty of disrespecting his property, but he has not disrespected any person. You on the other hand should look at yourself in the light of the above quote. A peer is either a member of the British nobility, or a person of equal social standing,class or age. We can safely rule out NOG from the former, and by your misguided moral compass it is acceptable to disrespect him if you consider him to be of a class other than yours.


not quite sure what you mean - the word "peer" merely means those people judged by the same morals as the rest of us but ok if I have offended you or anyone else please substitue " their peers" with "anyone"

by disrespecting his property he is blighting the landscape and treating the users of the public space around it with contempt. It is rude and not worthy of respect.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby noel o'gara » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:08 pm

wearnicehats wrote: You are a lone voice of support - something that I imagine the same man wouldn't bother to thank you for either


thanks for the support Hawk, so there, mr nice hats. you were wrong.

Hawk recognises what land ownership really means.

I have been prevented from allowing anybody to park on my land and running even a temperory stall to sell my stuff there.
They got a court order to take my caravan away and then they put a tree preservation order on the trees. What has happened to our independance and our republic?

That has left me with only one option. Farming and that is what the land is now, a small farm.
Section 4 of the planning acts must be familiar to all you experts.
It says that farming is exempt development and any buildings occupied and so used.
DCC have taken an action to try to force me to remove a tent from the land and they won because a judge who has failed to uphold the constitution sits in court for their benefit handing out hefty fines for fly tipping and parking etc etc.
This fellow is a brother of Fianna Fail minister Dempsey and they are little different to the British establishment that we struggled for centuries to remove.
The 1963 planning laws imposed on our republic were a direct copy of the British Town and Country Planning Acts 1948 and Mr DeVelera as president and Ray Burke's father and Charlie Haughey were the government that imposed themselves in the place of the British who we struggled to free ourselves from.
Dev and his freedom fighters ousted the Brits only to step into their shoes with the planning laws which gave them the power to remove a tent from the side of any house.

Since then these political hacks have milked that power to get bribes,dig outs and we end up with all the white elephants that now characterize our republic.

We actually did for a brief period have a republic of free people but my generation has allowed it to be hijacked by an autocratic bureaucracy. The councils up and down the country were formed to manage roads, water schemes and sewage facilities. FF gave them the total planning function in 1963 and they are a pack of dreamers who are holding this country by the throat ever since then.

The Irishman is no longer independant, he doesnt own his own home and he cant even put up a tent on his land. He cant own a dog without a licence nor fish on his own land without a permit. We have handed our freedom and rights to a pack of gombeen men rather than retaining them and being independant and free people.
An Irishman cant turn his front room into an office or a shop without getting their permission.
A farmer cant build a house on his own land nor can you park a tent in your garden without breaking the laws of our Free State.
A landless man anxious to buy a home is funnelled into a housing scheme that is planned by the council and motrgaged for his lifetime. The market has been totally distorted with zoning and graft.
Anyway the tent on my land will stay there until the Supreme court upholds these unconstitutional laws.
Lets hope not all the judges are in hock to the Fianna Fail party machine as judge Dempsey so clearly is.
Under the British crown one would have no hope of opposing them but we still have the remains of the Republic that might be retrieved from the embers of bureaucracy.
Luckily we said no to Lisbon or that would be gone also.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby gunter » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:06 pm

I love the farm idea, nostalgia for 'the emergency' and all that, but I suspect it will get up the noses of the residents.

Are you sure you've exhausted all other possibilities? There's a full, two ring, Circus in the RHK grounds and they don't seem to need any Planning Permission, Public Event Licence, or any other type of 'Permit from the Man', so I don't see why Dartmouth Square should be any different.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby noel o'gara » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:29 pm

gunter wrote:

There's a full, two ring, Circus in the RHK grounds and they don't seem to need any Planning Permission, Public Event Licence, or any other type of 'Permit from the Man', so I don't see why Dartmouth Square should be any different.


Actually thats a good idea and I would give the circus the use of the farm free of charge on condition they reduced the entrance fees proportionately. I think you are right that they dont need planning permission for the temporary use. Will you ask them about it?

But would the local objectors agree to let them operate for a week? Lets hear it from pvc and his pals whether they would share their space with the ordinary people of Ranelagh.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Andrew Duffy » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:52 am

noel o'gara wrote:share their space with the ordinary people of Ranelagh.


How about you do the same and allow the city council to turn Dartmouth Square back into a public park? Oh, I forgot, you won't because you're a hypocrite and incapable of holding or expressing a consistent viewpoint.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby reddy » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:18 am

noel o'gara wrote:DCC have taken an action to try to force me to remove a tent from the land and they won because a judge who has failed to uphold the constitution sits in court for their benefit handing out hefty fines for fly tipping and parking etc etc.


What u don't think there should be heavy fines for fly tipping?
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby wearnicehats » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:35 am

[quote="noel o'gara"]

That has left me with only one option. Farming and that is what the land is now, a small farm.

QUOTE]

the only thing I can see growing is that pile of rubbish by the side gate.

But, if it is to be a "farm" and you are a man of the people, determined to give the Irish man and woman some independence back, how about turning it into a series of allotments. I'd take one and, maybe then, the place would be looked after by people who cared about it again.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Pot Noodle » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:07 pm

What about something for the homeless people let them sleep in there or a soup kitchen do you need planning for that
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby noelogara » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:16 am

wearnicehats wrote:
noel o'gara wrote:
That has left me with only one option. Farming and that is what the land is now, a small farm.

QUOTE]

the only thing I can see growing is that pile of rubbish by the side gate.

But, if it is to be a "farm" and you are a man of the people, determined to give the Irish man and woman some independence back, how about turning it into a series of allotments. I'd take one and, maybe then, the place would be looked after by people who cared about it again.


I would consider giving you a plot next year. You would have to give me a share of your veg in lieu of rent if that is ok with you.
anybody out there interested in setting up a farmers weekend market?
I need a live wire who could organise that and make a decent commission into the bargain. 100 stall holders at a score a weekent wouldnt be bad for a start. Because its agricultural there is no planning needed.. Section 4 of the Act.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby johnglas » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:46 pm

I think you'll find that that section of the Act probably refers to ESTABLISHED agricultural use. You really should stop playing games and become a real Santa Claus and return this public space to the people of Dublin. Ownership conveys no rights that are detrimental to the common good; you've made your point with your cowboy raid on the Square, you should now give it back to the Indians.
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Would the real Noel O'Gara please stand up

Postby Rusty Cogs » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:12 pm

There seems to be more than one Noel this Christmas. See two posts above.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:40 pm

This new one must be a pretender. I'm going to presume that we should believe the identity of the first Noel (the angels did say...).
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby tommyt » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:10 pm

ctesiphon wrote:This new one must be a pretender. I'm going to presume that we should believe the identity of the first Noel (the angels did say...).


Noel's pinky finger is so swollen with rage at the demise of our founding ideals he can't hit the apostrophe key and is temporarily logged out.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Pot Noodle » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:27 pm

So i cant sow spuds on my land
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby henno » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:05 am

Pot Noodle wrote:So i cant sow spuds on my land


agricultural use is defined by teh existance of an agricultural business on the land...

a few stables doesnt make an equestrian center!

similarly a few spuds doesnt make a farm...
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