alonso wrote:your post smacks of victim mentality
jimg wrote:I really couldn't believe the amount of time Dick Gleason dedicated in a recent printed interview with to discussing urgent need for action plans for Ballsbridge, Rathmines and the like. It really angered me that Ballsbridge could be viewed as a priority for active DCC involvement while the historic urban core of Dublin city is largely allowed to rot not only in terms of the upkeep of the public domain but in terms of the seeming disinterest in actually applying any effort to evaluating planning applications. I simply cannot understand how a planner (or anyone for that matter) can be blind the huge potential in restoring the inner city; they really need to visit more European cities to see how desirable and successful a preserved historic core can be.
hutton wrote:Ouch!... Meeooow!
alonso wrote:Oi! Selective quoting! I said that particular piece of his post, not the entire thing. This ain't no tabloid newspaper, 'tis archiseek, a paragon of cybervirtue and fairness in debate;)
I think we need to take a break, get some sleep, maybe wake up refreshed and go for a walk before returning to the site - I know a lovely beach in Dublin 4 that's fantastic for an early morning stroll*
*like I've ever done that
alonso wrote:As i said above, familiarity may have a major role in this thread.
GrahamH wrote:In terms of my favourite parts of the city, i.e. â€˜where I want to goâ€™, to answer the thread question, they would have to include Thomas Street. The tingle of excitement approaching the area, with the spire of SS. Augustine and John emerging ahead and the slight curve in the street drawing you in further is always a memorable experience.
Long before we had the Wide Street Commission, Dublin had Thomas Street,.
GrahamH wrote:You seem to be mixing up the content on here with popular perceptions of the area over the past half century.
GrahamH wrote:Is it any wonder one does not hold â€˜much grÃ¡â€™ for an area, when so very clearly nobody in authority does either. The likes of Francis Street, Meath Street, Carmanâ€™s Hall and their hinterlands have been decimated by tax incentivised developments, which, far from improving matters, have committed these streets to design mediocrity, social anonymity and a substandard quality of living which shall linger for many years to come
hutton wrote:Keep it up folks - a most interesting and informative discussion on a thread which one had presumed would fall into the old cliches
hutton wrote:+ 110%
gunter wrote:What are the ingredients of a great street?
There's probably a workable definition somewhere, but I'm going to come at it the other way, pick a street that I love and work back from that.
All joking aside, I think Thomas Street has the potential to be one of the great streets of Europe, a street that encapsulates the essence of the whole city, it's history, architecture, society, commerce, and industry.
Long before we had the Wide Street Commission, Dublin had Thomas Street, a broad commercial thoroughfare, a street with monastries and markets, shops and workshops, hostelries and houses. With Thomas Street you have raw urbanism, animated by a true cross-section of city life, from art students to stall holders, a street dripping with a palpable sense of history. It's not just that the final tragic scenes in several national tragedies were played out on Thomas Street, the murder of Lord Kilwarden, the capture of Lord Edward Fitzgerald, the execution of Emmet, it's the fact that the street retains much of the character it had when these events were played out.
Fitzwilliam Street may be a fine piece of late Georgian urbanism, with or without the ESB building, but it is as dull as dishwater compared to a street like Thomas Street. Nothing of significance has ever happened on Fitzwilliam Street, or is ever likely to. Fitzwilliam St. was laid out with all the imagination that a speculative property developer could muster, which is not much. The street is protected and that's as it should be, but so should Thomas Street. Ironically, the few houses on Thomas Street that are protected are the ones that look the most 'Georgian', the ones that look the most like they'd fit on Fitzwilliam Street, this is exactly were we're going wrong. We're misunderstanding the essence of the street.
The challenge for us is to recognise the depth of significance of a street like Thomas Street, protect the elements that contribute to that significance, and bring out the street's potential with every intervention, not allow developers to sweep away all the bits that don't conform to the Fitzwilliam St. 'this is heritage' photo-fit.
alonso wrote:A great street . . . . I'll start the ball rolling:
A mix of Retail from the elite or mainstream fashion to the crusty - eg Brown Thomas and boutiques on Wicklow/Exchequer St in amongst Music Maker and Record Collector
Pubs and night time uses
Space and plenty of it for pedestrians
Practical invisibility of motorised traffic of all modes
A sense of enclosure
A network of usable laneways leading into and out of the street
A few seats, ah go on DCC, just a few
An epic building, often historic, which gives the whole area a unique point of reference - often a church
Safety and security
A certain randomness and ramshackleness without dereliction or underuse - eg Parnell St east
alonso wrote:. . . if you feel Thomas St. has the potential to be one of the great streets of Europe, surely so do Merrion Row, Westmoreland/Dolier St, South William St., Dame St, Dorset St., a car free River Quayside etc.
alonso wrote:What is raw urbanism . . . Is it possible that this term, raw urbanism, is an academic rose-tinted view of what may be, to many, essentially no-go areas?
gunter wrote:What happened to your light humorous posts?
That's a good list alonso, but I'd like to think that architecture plays a bigger role. As well as 'an epic building', I think the general streetscape has to have enough architecture to engage the aesthetic senses. I don't want to think that you can have a great street without there being interesting architecture in the mix.
I think organic growth plays a part. A planned street, no matter how magnificent, seldom has that 'great street' quality that a street forged over time, and by many different hands, has. This ties into the whole 'urban layers' terminology, as well as the randomness of your last point.
Leaving the Quays out of it on definition grounds, I wouldn't put the others on the same level, I like them all, but they don't have that depth that I feel when I'm on Thomas Street. Dame Street should have, but it feels like a couch that's been re-upholstered too many times.
OK a misunderstanding here, I was using the term to convey the physical attributes of the streetscape, gritty, not pretty, rather than any deep assessment of the social context.
I don't want to hijack the thread with more discussion on Thomas Street, but I really believe that there is something special here and, with DCC attitudes the way they are, it's in some peril.
I take reddy's point about the harsh realities of living in the middle of deprivation. I lived just off Gardiner Street for four years and I will never forget the first day we moved to a flat in Sandymount, It was pokey and dark, unlike the vast dilapidated Georgian house we had the run of before, but that didn't matter, we just went out and walked the streets till the early hours free from all the tension and the worry about being broken into if we were spotted out on the street. I'm not under any illusions in that department.
That doesn't mean I'm going soft on Sandymount Strand.
alonso wrote:. . . . thought of it on the bike the next day but by the time i'd returned to home . . . .
gunter wrote:'Dublin City Council to slash capital budget'
from Olivia Kelly in today's Irish Times.
To cut back on expenditure, there's a list of 'regeneration and development projects which will be deferred'
The list of cancelled (sorry, deferred) projects has 19 entries, guess how many of these 'deferred' projects are in Dublin 8?
That's right, ten of them!
The Kilmainham/Inchicore urban space project,
The Rialto project,
The Lutyens Gateway to the Memorial Gardens,
The Inchicore environmental improvements,
Cork Street regeneration,
The footbridge over the Liffey at Chapelizod,
Thomas Street environmental improvements,
Paving at Ship Street,
School Street car park.
We'll be told now that putting these projects on the list in the first place shows Dublin City Council's commitment to the area.
alonso wrote:gunter, you were right about a lot more than I gave you credit for at the time . . . . . I'm glad I was able to find this thread and get to make this clarification.