Development of Dun Laoghaire seafront

[Rory W]

'the people's proposal' right on comrade, now go back to the 1970s Dave Spart

[lostexpectation]

still more spite is directed at the irrelevant rbb then the people that have been in charge of this mess for decades, alot waffling spitemeisters around on archeire these days

[alonso]

LE, i have directed my ire several times here and on P.ie at those responsible, ie the elected members and the executive. My issue with RBB is that he exploits these issues for electoral gain (He nearly got to Leinster House by bullshitting the people for Christs sake) hiding his extreme Marxism under a bushel via jumping loudly on every bandwagon going. He cosies up to people that his politics is diametrically opposed to. He cosies up to FF, FG and PD voters and fools them into voting for his redundant lefty arseology. You know my record on these issues and you should know i write with substance on both sites. I've spoken with the guy and find him a vacuous waffler who belongs in student politics.

[lostexpectation]

looking at the previous page you spent typed a lot more words deriding about rbb and the people then anything else, your mistaking berating both sides for intelligent comment much like ther other commentators on here, at then end of the day the people weren't wrong to reject the proposal, and don't see enough information on the new one to reject the assertion that its still doesn't give enough to the public.

if someone wants to build private seaside pool complex they can do it somewhere else, the council only has the old ones to work on.

[alonso]

perhaps read the rest of the thread then.

I solemnly swear not to mention you know who again unless you know who says something silly again

[Paul Clerkin]

1888 - Floating Swimming Bath
Kingstown, Dublin, Ireland

including upper deck plan & midship detail
W. Kaye Parry C.E. ~ Architect

[lostexpectation]

is this the latest stuff from the council http://www.dlrcoco.ie/EastPier2Sandycove/INDEX.HTM i don't think you could call that clear, not clear on the buildings at all, there doesn't seem to be much office,residential commercial in the councils proposal. they say themslves the buildings have not been designed I would call that an actual lack of info, not lack of reading the thread alonso.

it was impossible to see past your spittle how to your rejection of the of their plans differed from rbb's/sos's and as i said we havn't seen sos's submission so you can't say there's anything wrong with it.

what rbb said is pretty much exactly what mollox said about leaving the beach elements to last to run out of money yet you didn't berate him or say that was silly.

[alonso]

LE, for the last time, my points re RBB were political and questioned his motives, not necessarily the substance of his argument. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day

[lostexpectation]

Beach threat to bay Joyce made famous
Man-made sandy shore could ruin marine life
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/14/ireland.ireland

i though they siple wanted to restore the sea pool not cretae a beach.

[KerryBog2]

Drove by the Baths last evening; ther's a map/ plan of the proposal fixed to the western side of the baths building. Some wag has obliterated "Sandy" from Sandycove and replace it with Mosney and Disney. Nonsense about the 40 Foot silting up, the tide flows past there at 2-3 knots two hours into the flood/ebb.
K.

[KerryBog2]

1888 - Floating Swimming Bath
Kingstown, Dublin, Ireland

including upper deck plan & midship detail
W. Kaye Parry C.E. ~ Architect

This is possibly an extension of the idea to use one of the old hulks in the harbour to house a yacht club. That idea was floated (sorry) c 1840's.
K.

[SunnyDub]

Boyd Barrett and his kind will be defeated, if I have to do it myself, damin it!!

It just shows you when you have a socialist cosying up to some of the most reactionary property owners in Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove what you can get, the silent majority will defeat the rabble in the long run.

[SunnyDub]

Council has cancelled plan for ice rink

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0925/1222207743902.html

I'm sure the reactionaries had their hand in this too

[lostexpectation]

it made a big loss didn't it. and is a bit ridiculous isn't it an icerink, isn't this waht we talking about here building things appropriate to the climate, ie not creating an beach where's there's no sun.

so you were fan of the original carlyle building plan? sunnydub.

[SunnyDub]

My point about the seafront is not the merit of the design, it's that they opposed the concept of private involvement in the development of the site on principle as if the Council shouldn't be getting value for its money and assets be they sites or whatever...it was the combination of a socialist rabble and local property owners seeking to protect their interests.

I'd actually have faith in the Council or An Bord Pleanala, on appeal, to judge the merits of the design and protect local amenity.

My view on the proposal was that it sounded excessive but that a public-private solution could be found.

As for the ice rink, same old local gentry objecting, although maybe it wasn't profitable.

[alonso]

Dun Laoghaire baths plan 'a waste of money'
Mark Hilliard

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2008/oct/19/dun-laoghaire-baths-plan-a-waste-of-money/

Dun Laoghaire council slammed over development plan on restricted land

Dun Laoghaire baths: over 1,000 submissions have been received in relation to the two proposed developments


COUNCIL officials in charge of the controversial redevelopment plans for the Dun Laoghaire Baths in south Dublin have been accused of wasting public money on the project before securing guarantees that substantial development is even possible.




It has been claimed that any redevelopment at the seafront area in Dun Laoghaire could run into problems as there are significant "restrictions" attached to leases covering the area.




The revelation has caused disquiet amongst local politicians who claim management at Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council have spent thousands of euro of tax payers' money on both consultancy fees and the marketing of two proposed developments for the seafront area.




Both of these schemes – which involve a major rejuvenation of the seafront area and the now defunct public baths – are in public consultation phase. Plans for a major development on the coastline sparked local objections which reached fever pitch in 2005 with public marches and demonstrations.




The leases on the shoreline are held by the Department of the Marine, which entered into discussions with council officials to amend the paperwork in 2001, to pave the way for future works.




However, the Sunday Tribune has learned that these discussions were never finalised and restrictions on development remain in place.




Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council confirmed it took part in "negotiations with the relevant government departments but the negotiations were not concluded".




The council also confirmed that the two schemes proposed for the seafront now undergoing public consultation "have not been examined in light of these old leases as no decision has been made by the council at this stage to proceed with any scheme".




However, it would not shed light on the nature of the restrictions and said it was not possible to estimate the money spent on planning and promoting the two schemes.




"The council is not in a position to give an estimate as work is ongoing and final invoices have not been submitted," said Bernie Gilligan, senior executive officer at the economic development and planning department. However, while confirming that the "restrictions" on the leases have not yet been addressed despite discussions with government seven years ago, Gilligan said: "We are confident that any difficulties associated with these restrictions can be overcome".




Over 1,000 submissions have been received in relation to the two proposed developments and a report on the consultation process is expected by the end of the year. At that stage, the council's elected members will decide the future of the project. However, the council's spending public money on producing the concepts before ensuring the lease restrictions were amended has proved controversial.




"I think it's a bad way to handle public money and people have told the council they don't want this fantastic 'Disneyfication' of the sea front," said local Green councillor Gene Feighery.

[alonso]

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council spent a staggering €23.7m on "consultancy and professional fees" last year, it has emerged.

No comment was available from the council on the figure, which represents almost 10 per cent of its total expenditure of €240m for 2007.

The money paid on consultancy and professional fees grew more than five-fold from the 2006 figure of €4.5m.

More here
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/council-pays-out-8364237m-in-fees-for-consultants-1503277.html

The mind boggles....

[mollox]

While I think the Tribune story on issues regarding shoreline leases is a bit of a red herring, the alternative seafront concepts put forward for public consultation were always predicated on the availability of central Govt funding, and were far more ambitious that a straightforward “Dun Laoghaire Baths” solution.

It’s now abundantly clear that the necessary central Govt funding for either scheme is unlikely to materialise. Indeed, it was always a very long shot that it would, even if the country wasn’t in recession.

The “Lagoon Beach” element of Concept A, priced at c. €32m, is fairly close to my original “Dun Laoghaire Plage” proposal ( for which I’ve received none of the €23.7m in consultancy fees) and - surprise, surprise - I’m still in favour of that element progressing.

The worst possible outcome would be a wasted investment in re-instating the baths, broadly as they previously existed. Better to bulldoze the entire structure into the sea and let the winos, seagulls, feral cats, urban foxes, buddleias etc colonise the site.

[lostexpectation]

There are new plans for a multi million project with amenities using the area over the Dart line between Dunlaoghaire and Sandycove station. A good portion of the existing trench line will be converted into a "cut and cover" syatem similar to sections of the London's Circle and Metropolitan subsurface lines.http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/new-look-for-dun-laoghaire-conservation-area-1533238.html

i didn't notice covering of the dart line in the plans above.

a thread on the boards where green jesus points out

That section of the line was originally built as underground.

It was the first underground railway in the British isles (if not the world) But they didn't really know what they were doing back then and it caved-in shortly after it opened. As a result they just left it as it is now.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055419003


http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/blackrock-park-is-no-dartmouth-square-1560294.html

[Rory W]

It was the first underground railway in the British isles (if not the world) But they didn't really know what they were doing back then and it caved-in shortly after it opened. As a result they just left it as it is now.

I've never heard that one before

[Bago]

I've never heard that one before

Anyone ever heard much of the Dublin underground planned and ready to start construction in 1914,.. until franz ferdinand took a bullet. Wrong thread but.....
https://www.tribune.ie/article/2003/nov/23/metro-plans-back-on-track/
edit, it wasn't planned and ready... but planned!

[Rory W]

Anyone ever heard much of the Dublin underground planned and ready to start construction in 1914,.. until franz ferdinand took a bullet. Wrong thread but.....
https://www.tribune.ie/article/2003/nov/23/metro-plans-back-on-track/
edit, it wasn't planned and ready... but planned!

Ah yes the Abercrombie plan - would certainly have made for an interesting Dublin

[KerryBog2]

I've never heard that one before

Nor I.
It is hardly "underground" anywhere, but it is in a cutting due to local objections (nothing new!) and gradients. Lord Cloncurry, who owned Maretimo House in Blackrock, was a big objector and there was another in Kingstown. Perhaps the confusion arises because Dublin - Kingstown was Ireland's first railway (1834) I've also heard it described as one of Europe's earliest commuter lines.
Kb2

[lostexpectation]

decision-on-dun-laoghaire-baths-delayed
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/decision-on-dun-laoghaire-baths-delayed-1599940.html
However, the Sandycove and Glasthule Residents' Association circulated a newsletter at last night's county council meeting, outlining their objections to the plans. The statement raised questions about the feasibility of creating a sand beach which could be washed away and said that development on the seashore would devastate the ecosystem.

"It is not relevant to the aspirations of the community," the statement read. "There is no way to realise financially or practically the project."

battle-in-polls-to-loom-on-public-baths
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/battle-in-polls-to-loom-on-public-baths-1598260.html
The latest report the 48th by the sub-committee received over 1,200 submissions from the public, including over 500 from the Save Our Seafront campaign, but rules out simply restoring the outdoor baths which one source described as a "sentimental connection to the past" which does not recognise the fact that people's leisure habits have changed.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/public-baths-set-for-major--revamp-1599617.html
A committee of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council has recommended the existing bath building be extended and revamped to provide a public swimming pool.

The move comes despite county manager Owen Keegan warning that such a facility, which would include outdoor swimming pool and the possibility of an indoor facility, was "unlikely to attract significant patronage and at best will operate for a very limited season".

An analysis of submissions found that most people favoured neither one proposal nor the other, which consultants said was to be expected.

so it still crawling along and now a new set of plans...

[lostexpectation]

Marine lake proposal scrapped
http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/1616/55/
A PROPOSAL for the construction of a marine lake in Dún Laoghaire Harbour has been abandoned after the Department of the Environment ruled that the development would conflict with a Special Protection Area for birds.
The proposal was mooted as a recreational facility, which together with the development of a marine activity centre at the back of the West Pier in the harbour, would have provided a range of activities including rowing, canoeing and sailing to the public.