Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Gav08 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:21 am

Hi,

I got a text from a friend this morning to say that a developer demolished the old church on Jones Road, near Croke Park, at around 6am this morning... Until recently this church was selling furniture. From what I'm told the demolition was illegal.

Anybody, have any history of this church?

Thanks.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby notjim » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:06 am

I can't picture that church and I can't find it in the register of protected structures, was it actually fronting on to Jones Rd?
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby newgrange » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:32 am

I haven't been up there in a while, but it was a small red-brick building, probably Victorian, just the Clonliffe Road side of the railway.
Not sure it was protected.

**edit** I believe it was a Methodist Church or Hall.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:33 pm

I think I have a picture of it at home...
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:38 pm

Demolished illegally, the church that was ‘saved
Evening Herald
Wednesday October 15 2008

Image

A CHURCH that had been ‘saved’ from demolition was knocked down anyway early this morning.

At 6am, residents near Croke Park woke to the sound of a bulldozer-type piece of machinery being driven into the front of the church.

The destruction on the quiet Jones’ Road, beside the GAA stadium, comes only a day after workers at the church site were served with notification from the council to stop work.

Objections

Residents had reported work at the site to Dublin City Council and gardai over the last two days, but this morning at 6am a machine was driven into the front of the building.

“On Monday, people first started working on that site, residents objected and they contacted the council,” said photographer Jim Berkeley, who was at the scene.

“Yesterday the council served them with notification.

“Last night the cops came down twice and stopped the guy who was working on the digger that you can see inside the building,” he claimed.

Mr Berkeley said he went down to the 120-year-old Methodist church yesterday evening at 10.50pm and at that stage the digger had stopped being used.

“The second piece of equipment arrived this morning at 6 o'clock and went straight through,” he said.

Residents called gardai on hearing the commotion and when they arrived the person who was operating the bulldozer ran away.

The Ireland match against Cyprus will be held at Croke Park this evening and this partial demolition of the church is located at the railway bridge very close to the stadium.

Enforcement

“Well, something might have to be done,” Mr Berkley said.

“The old lady who lives in the house beside it had to move out.”

Dublin City Council confirmed that enforcement was served yesterday to stop the work being carried out at the site.

They were aware of this morning's destruction and the planning department is investigating the incident.

A Garda spokesperson said: “The gardai were called to an incident with a JCB on Jones’ Road this morning. The road has since been closed off as a precaution.”

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/demolished-illegally-the-church-that-was-lsquosaved-1499413.html
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby notjim » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:39 pm

demolished after an enforcement order stopping work! shocking.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:04 pm

I'd say the developer is quaking in his boots...

BRING ON THE €1000 FINE!!! :eek::eek::eek:

:rolleyes:
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby lauder » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:23 pm

Passed it this afternoon. Disgraceful act. Can the developed be forced to repair/rebuild the church?
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:08 pm

Yes he can, not likely though.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Alek Smart » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:44 pm

Sounds like the Boss decided to get stuck in and do the dirty work hisself...:eek:
Probably under a bit of financial pressure from his friendly Bank Manager.

Oh well not to worry i`m sure Tom Parlon will make sure the choppy waters are smoothed over... :)
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby hutton » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:21 am

I saw this earlier - and was too angry for words... I still am :mad:
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:41 am

Thursday, October 16, 2008Council to decide if former church must be rebuilt
In this section »
Waterford Crystal to shed 280 jobsDesmond case against 'Irish Mirror' allowedLocal residents Bill Byrne (left) and James Ryan at the Methodist Church on Jones's Road, Dublin, which was partially demolished early yesterday morning without planning permission. The Garda was called to the site twice as attempts were apparently under way to begin demolition.

Photograph: Alan BetsonKITTY HOLLAND FRANK McDONALD andDUBLIN CITY Council will decide today whether a former church in Dublin will have to rebuilt following its partial illegal demolition early yesterday morning.

A notice ordering the cessation of the demolition of the former Methodist Church and schoolhouse at Jones's Road was issued on Tuesday night following complaints from local residents that demolition had begun.

The enforcement notice requires the owner of the structure to cease further demolition, to reinstate parts of the building that were demolished "by April 14th, 2009" and to reinstate the cast-iron front boundary railings.

John Reilly, buildings inspector with the council, said yesterday that despite the notice being issued, "apparently at about 6am this morning, the front of the building was attacked with a JCB. It is now unsafe and the priority has to be to make it safe, which will probably mean taking it down piece by piece".

The Garda was called to the site twice on Tuesday night as attempts were apparently under way to begin demolition. There was concern last night the building would be a safety hazard as crowds passed it on their way to last night's international soccer match at neighbouring Croke Park.

Mr Reilly said the structure was not a listed building, but since new rules were introduced in June, permission was required to demolish an industrial building greater than 100sq m. The building is about 400sq m. It dates back to 1881 and until a fortnight ago, was used as a leather-furniture salesroom.

He said planning permission for its demolition probably would have been granted, but an attempt had clearly been made to circumvent the process. Anthony Gannon of Meena Plant Hire, who was contracted to carry out the demolition, was at the site yesterday morning. He said his intention was to comply with the notice and had arrived on-site at 8am yesterday with council officers to assess how compliance would be achieved.

"And this is the mess that was here. I don't know who did this," he said. The front and left-hand side of the building had been razed. One JCB was visible inside and another adjacent to the building. He said he didn't know who owned them.

A member of the Garda was at the site yesterday and the demolition of the front facade is now under criminal investigation.

Mr Gannon said he had not been able to get in touch with the owner. "I can't contact him at the moment." Attempts by The Irish Times to contact the owner were also unsuccessful. The plan for the site was to build apartments, Mr Gannon said.

Local Sinn Féin councillor Christy Burke said it was "nothing but thuggery and vandalism". He said if the council deemed it necessary for the building to be taken down, it would be "playing into the hands of cowboys".

© 2008 The Irish Times
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Praxiteles » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:01 am

Fury as historic church gutted without permit
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Locals were disgusted when a 120-year-old Methodist church was partially demolished without permission on Jones's Road, near Croke Park

Irish Independent


Thursday October 16 2008

Allison Bray

Gardai and Dublin city Council have both launched separate investigations into an incident that saw a 120-year-old Methodist church partially demolished yesterday without planning permission.

Gardai and Dublin City Council have begun inquiries into the incident at Jones's Road near Croke Park in north Dublin which saw the church virtually destroyed, even though workers at the site were served with an order from Dublin City Council on Tuesday night to cease demolition immediately.

Furious neighbours rang gardai early yesterday morning when they were awoken by the sound of a JCB smashing through the church wall at 6am yesterday, despite being ordered to stop work the previous evening. A worker at the scene was allegedly seen running from the site when approached by gardai.

Officials from the council's Dangerous Buildings Unit will be surveying the damage today to see whether the decommissioned church can be salvaged.

Last night Labour TD Joe Costello said the people responsible for the demolition of the Victorian-era church without planning permission should be made to reconstruct it.

He said area residents are disgusted by the brazen act which has all but ruined the local landmark regarded as "an architectural gem."

The private owners of the land do not have planning permission to demolish the building or develop the land, he said.

- Allison Bray
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Radioactiveman » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:13 am

I am angry beyond words. This has put me in a bad mood for the day ;(

Who is the owner of the building? Nobody seems to want to mention names.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby reddy » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:08 am

This guy should get jail-time. Just lock him up for five years and then see how many developers will be keen to do this.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Archidon » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:35 am

Yes he should be fined to the hilt, or made to rebuild, or put in jail, but DCC has already shown their weak position on these matters, and the developer knows they won't pursue anything.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:37 am

Why in this country can people get away with such outrageous displays of doing whatever they like?

I'm sick of this kind of nonsense happening every day around Ireland. Regardless of poor laws or enforcement there is a complete dearth of any sense of responsibility in a large section of the populance. It is regarded as perfectly fine to do whatever you can get away with.

It won't fix the problem to have better laws and enforce them - the problem is having such an attitude among so many people in the first place.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby jdivision » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:51 am

Can anybody find any planning applications in relation to this site. WAs a suggestion that permission for apartments had been sought?
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby igy » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:23 pm

I'd very much like to believe that the council will force reinstatement, as well as the Gardaí bringing a criminal case about it, but i'm a little too cynical to believe it totally.

Any chance the council will make an example of them here, by way of revenge for bruising their egos by ignoring proper process?
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Rory W » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:54 pm

How about being put in the clink until the rebuild is complete - that would put a stop to their gallop and they'd be pretty damn prompt about getting the rebuild done
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby notjim » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:00 pm

Rory W wrote:How about being put in the clink until the rebuild is complete - that would put a stop to their gallop and they'd be pretty damn prompt about getting the rebuild done


I was wondering about that: since an enforcement order was served, he is in contempt, ideally he should be put in prison until his contempt is discharged.
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:14 pm

Aside from Archers garage & Handel's Arch, are ther any other noteworthy cases where DCC forced a re-build ??
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby hutton » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:38 pm

We now have names... Bastards :mad:

Council assessing plan for damaged church

STEVEN CARROLL

DUBLIN CITY Council says it is in discussion with the "reputed owner" of a former Methodist Church in the north city that was partly demolished without permission earlier this week.

The front and left side of the building, on Jones's Road in Dublin 3, had been razed by JCBs on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, and the works rendered the building unsafe in the opinion of the council.

A spokeswoman for the council said the reputed owner has been in discussion with its building inspector and has submitted a proposal that is being assessed to ascertain if it will make the building safe. The council issued an enforcement notice demanding the reinstatement of the former church and schoolhouse and its railings, as well as the cessation of unauthorised demolition on the site.

John Reilly, buildings inspector with the council, said the structure was not a listed building, but since new rules were introduced in June, permission was required to demolish an industrial building greater than 100sq m.

He said planning permission for its demolition probably would have been granted, but an attempt had clearly been made to circumvent the process. The building is about 400sq m. It dates back to 1881 and, until a fortnight ago, was used as a leather-furniture salesroom called Leather Land.

The enforcement notice was issued by the council to Leather Land and Adrian McNally, who is listed as a director of Leather Imports, based in Navan, Co Meath, which is the owner of Leather Land. Attempts by The Irish Times to contact Mr McNally yesterday were unsuccessful.

Deputy Lord Mayor of Dublin Emer Costello branded the partial demolition a tragedy and said she would be in favour of a prison sentence for those responsible.

© 2008 The Irish Times
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby PTB » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:41 pm

These are much too big but I can't get them down for some reason
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Re: Old Church on Jones Road Dublin 3

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:14 pm

Just copying this here as it's probably more relevant to this thread:

ctesiphon wrote:Stephen- that was my original understanding, but apparently it's not as clear-cut as that, according to some people more knowledgeable than I who I spoke to on the matter of demolition. The advice I got was simply to check the most up-to-date version of the Regs for guidance.

Also, I'm not sure if this was an actual Proposed Protected Structure, or whether it was a proposed Proposed Protected Structure, i.e. had proceedings commenced to evaluate its merits with a view to adding it to the RPS, or had it just been mooted? This needs to be clarified. If the latter, then the (P)PS law wouldn't apply.

[...]

I'd argue that PP should be required for all demolition, and therefore episodes such as this one wouldn't arise so often. In addition, a better resourced grants structure would be a great help. The boom years seemed to sideline much rational debate in this regard in the rush to develop; sadly, I fear the quiet years will lead to a "Sure it's development, it's jobs ferchrissakes!" attitude instead of a chance to reflect on the role of these 'barriers to development' in the urban landscape.
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