Interconnector aka DART underground

Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:54 pm

Check out this link for (7th July 2008) Iarnród Éireann presentation to DCC on Interconnector


http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/Documents/Taking_the_Dart_underground.pdf


It seems they're aiming to have planning permission by 2011.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby Blisterman » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:29 pm

Looks good hopefully we'll actually see it built.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:00 pm

where do I begin....

St Stephens green

If they did up the roads instead they can use basically the exact same design twice...
at around 91 degrees to each other...
I'm surprised about the amount of plant equipment under the green
One my favorite hills of is getting the chop
Why are they showing the luas continuing? it will wreck the entrance to the park two luas's coming at once with the amount of people in that area is just plain stupid.... someone will get hurt
two lifts in that area??? again makes no sense
they need to make it into a pedestrian square nothing more nothing less...
can anyone spot our new tiny garda station??? or toilets
where is the landscaping plan??? they did that at the end not first....
urbanism award whats that?
I have chosen some nice light poles

Christchurch

Why can they not dig up the road instead and connect with the liberties and temple bar in one hit...
Two church vistas linked by two exits simple simon...
it can also connect better with bus stops and luas stations...
take the high ground its all downhill from here:rolleyes:
Cook st entrance is where can get cooked anytime on a street that goes west to no where....
Surely existing pedestrian foot fall will be included in the EIS
if its cook st and the dark space between two bunkers VS high st????

heuston

not as bad as the others...
but it looks like you have to walk the full length of the platform twice if you head east from this location...
reminds me of naples without karim rashid
I hope the space on top becomes a piazza...

Pearce

Merrion square getting a shave aswell...



any way at least you will have 2 choices...
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:10 pm

roads or parks...
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cgcsb » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:43 am

Missarchi, what are you talking about?
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby Rory W » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:28 pm

ah if we knew that....

Plan looks fine by me with a few tweaks here and there.

Word to IE though - I hope your build plan isn't left up to the person who did the map on p43 or else you're interconnecting Cunningham road to Amiens street via the Four Courts, Dublin Castle and TCD and not meeting a rail line
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:49 pm

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your points above, but surely the urban design of the area around the Green is a matter for the Council and can be dealt with by them if they want to put in a public square and minimise visual clutter. I don't see how you can avoid some intrusiveness at ground level given that it'll be a major interchange.

by the way, why do think they're proposing using the Green for the stations? it's so they don't end up cutting off access to the north of Grafton St and adjoining areas. very large areas of road are going to be dug up in other areas and I think the City & RPA are right to try and minimise the impact on access to the greatest extent possible. or as the slogan goes stay 'open for business'. you can't just shut down parts of the city because you feel like it.

As for previous criticism of the design of the metro stations, fair enough to a point, but the whole Metro project is being dictated by minising cost. the so-called gold plating has been taken out to minimise the cost so I think all you're going to get is functional architecture...again no big deal, it's not an art gallery!
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:08 pm

sunnydub thanks for the link...

It may well appear that im bashing CIE and RPA for following a budget and I am in some parts...
Because I think that 10% of the transport budget should have been spent on bikes and 60% on a metro nom.
I think you can avoid intrusiveness...

All I will say that is that this is one of the largest architectural urban planning opportunity's Dublin will have in its lifetime if they cannot do these stations correctly you may as well give up hope...
If we dig up all these roads we have the chance to change the past significantly Dublin will not get another chance in its life time... All I ask is you compare other stations around the world and the locations...
advertising ticket prices you name it...

I'm just showing other options If I went with the alinement of the RPA I might get a little more space

I know it does not have to be an art gallery but if you look at the numbers there will never be a better location or chance to show off new architecture to the masses.. this is a fact... it is worth the investment rather than some voting machines sitting in storage or some paintings worth 5 million a pop that all of 300,000 people a year might see... here you have architecture that will be seen by millions

I cannot judge if my architecture is better and more functional than the RPA CIE but I would invite the international architectural/urban design heavy weights to comment and I would invite the government, DCC, to take action on there comments thats all I'm asking for... a fair trial...

1 private individual VS 1000's of people and a few hundred million of euro...

worthy of debate... and showing the public different options... its only 5 billion euro after all...

I don't always/agree with like franks work but here are some quotes... gerhy that is ;)

"Public buildings deserve to have a certain level of iconicity and personality," he says. "Historically, that's what makes them define the cities and communities they're in."

If Ireland decides to ignore that they can... but at least have a vote or discussion on it....
or you will end up with a lonely planet...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moscow-Lonely-Planet-City-Guides/dp/1740598156


???
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:14 pm

I agree with you that putting some money to spruce up the design is a good idea, but the fact remains that the Government has actively dictated against this in their effort to pair down the project to the max in order to minimise cost e.g. standardised station design.

In fact, while the debate may continue on these forums, the reality is that the decisions have been made and the debate is over.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:28 pm

the debate is over for you but not for me :D
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cgcsb » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:23 am

The Dart will run on seperate tracks to Intercity services on the south western line to improve capacity for both services. However, when the the tunnel emerges from the ground and joins onto the northern line, we're still going to have a capacity issue. The Northern line is the most heavily subscribed section of railway in the country. That line will still be catering for DART, long distance commuter and an express intercity service to Belfast on two tracks. Until that line is quadruple tracked like the Kildare line, all services will have very limited capacity. The same applys to the North-Western line, That'll be running a long distance commuter service to Mullingar, Longford and Navan as well as DART to Dunboyne and an intercity service to Sligo
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:25 pm

I presume that's why they're planning to join the lower capacity northern Howth/Malahide line with the Kildare line and separatetly join the higher capacity Bray line with the Maynooth line...to presumably maximise capacity.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:07 pm

public consultation

12th August 2008 17:00-20:00 Ashling Hotel Parkgate St Dublin 2
13th August 2008 17:00-20:00 Central Hotel, Exchequer Street Dublin 2
19th August 2008 17:00-20:00 St Marys Youth Club Strangford Rd Dublin 3
20th August 2008 17:00-20:00 Alexander Hotel Merrion Square Dublin 2
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cgcsb » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:00 pm

missarchi wrote:public consultation

12th August 2008 17:00-20:00 Ashling Hotel Parkgate St Dublin 2
13th August 2008 17:00-20:00 Central Hotel, Exchequer Street Dublin 2
19th August 2008 17:00-20:00 St Marys Youth Club Strangford Rd Dublin 3
20th August 2008 17:00-20:00 Alexander Hotel Merrion Square Dublin 2


Hehe Parkgate street is in Dublin 8. I Notice that Dublin City Council write the adress of their Wood Quar offices as Dublin 2 as well even though they are clearly in Dublin 8. What's wron with Dublin 8?:confused:
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:46 pm

It looks like full steam ahead as they're recruiting designers and technicians in Friday's Irish Times
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby forrestreid » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:27 pm

First of the consultations is tomorrow, I see
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:20 pm

it was really boring and nothing really new...
how much heritage is below high st is it taboo??
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:19 pm

Does that mean they're taking out the trees to replant them so they can put them back in? there's plenty of room up in the Park.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:23 pm

in theory but the destruction will be significant its impossible to tell until there are proper sections and its done...

we now have the " destruction of merrion square" thats not to say it cannot be done well...
but you would question why they won't dig up the road instead...
mabye the roads dept and traffic managment in DCC have to much pull...
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:57 pm

'Huge pressure' to fast track rail tunnel link

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0813/1218477454427.html

IARNRÓD ÉIREANN is under "huge pressure" from the Department of Transport and politicians to make rapid progress in delivering an underground rail link between Dublin's Heuston and Docklands stations.

Project manager Peter Muldoon also said there was "not a peep that the project is being targeted for cuts" by the Government to trim public expenditure - even though it carries an estimated price tag of €2 billion.

FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor
13th Aug 2008
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cgcsb » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:31 pm

20 trains an hour opens up huge oportunities. A third Dart line would be a possibility, ie one starting at Heuston, going under the park(possibly an underground stop) and stopping at Blackhorse Avenue, Glasnevin, Drumcondra, Into the docks and through the tunnel back to Heuston, It'd be similar to London's very succsesful "Circle Line", and connect with all other modes.Making public transport a much more atractive option
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby notjim » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:28 pm

It is hard to see what that adds cgcsb; it takes capacity from both the existing planned routes while only adding journeys that would be less common and would be possible under T21 with one change anyway.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cgcsb » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:14 pm

It adds Blackhorse Avenue, Glasnevin and the Pheonix park to the network. Also it alows for better connectivity between modes. There is an oportunity to make better use of liffey jnct. to Heuston track. If the track was extended to north from liffey jnct, in a tunnel or surface track, through the airport and on to Drogheda. This would allow Trains coming from Belfst to stop at Dublin Airport and Dublin Heuston and It would make train journeys from Belfast to Cork, Waterford and Limerick etc. a real possibility. This would have the added benefit of freeing up capacity on the Docklands to Drogheda track for Dart and Commuter services without quadruple tracking. all intercity services Terminating in Dublin puts pressure on our railways as trains have turn and go back very quickly. It is possible for a Rosslare to Belfast Service now, but IÉ seems to lack the will.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby notjim » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:54 pm

Won't Glasnevin be on the Maynooth Dart line and Blackhorse Avenue won't be so far from the DIT luas.

Running mainline in from Belfast and the airport and on to Cork seems like a better idea, though hardly a short term priority.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby SunnyDub » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:06 pm

First you suggest a DART line through the Phoenix Park tunnel and on to Docklands, then a mainline to Belfast...

I can see some rationale to using the Phoenix Park tunnel for mainline if it could be joined up with Connolly and wouldn't disrupt DART services, that would probably require four tracking from Connolly to Howth junction or Malahide and a few new tracks and platforms through Connolly. Major work. Then you could have mainline trains that run to Heuston continuing to Connolly and on to Belfast e.g. Cork-Dublin-Belfast.

Again, not a priority, let's build what we can first of all.
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