Trinity College Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:54 pm

Well Luce Hall is one of the few newish buildings that will survive the Pearse Street development: the Simon Perry building, that charming red brick Civil Engineering building and the two student accommodation buildings that are edgeways on to the rugby pitch, will all go. I used to like these two but these days I feel that there is something mean and well prissy about them and I won't be sorry to see them come down.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:55 pm

Ewww Sarsfield. Also who would have thought Trinity students to be such exhibitionists? Fair enough the view looking out of the gym towards the former Academy cinema is pretty pleasant, but having hoards of passers-by looking back at you in your distressed state is not something that appeals to this poster.

The interior of the Perry building is even more of an engineer's dream than the exterior, as difficult as that may be to imagine. Not a fan of Luce Hall either have to say, notjim. It's not sculpturally Brutalist - just plain, cheap and ugly! Agreed the Pearse Street elevation needs to be resolved. Also I like the new accommodation blocks, and the red brick lol.


One of the better stories of 18th century Trinners students is their rampaging around the city. As Constantia Maxwell recounts (one sometimes wonders if that should be recalls): "Sometimes they placed gunpowder squibs on the lamps in several streets at once, contriving by fuses to have them all burst at the same time. Whole streets would thus be left in darkness, to the dismay of the populace." Also: "Sometimes they threw large crackers into the china and glass shops, delighting to see the terrified shopkeepers trampling on their wares for fear of an explosion".

Wouldn't happen nowadays of course - such exertion tends to ruffle the hair gel and smear fake tan. Tsk.


Image

Well at last the Rubrics is finally undergoing conservation works - huge scaffolding went up last weekend (hope to get a pic). The windows to its main west elevation have been the worst in the college for many years, so perhaps it is just these that are being tackled, though some masonry lintels are in poor condition too. In spite of the Rubrics being the oldest building on campus, dating from c. 1700, pretty much its entire famous facade dates from the 1890s, not just the gables as is often stated.

Image



Image

The entire facade would appear to be of machine-made red brick, with the day-glo orange surrounds probably later again from the 1930s. The windows also primarily date from two replacement waves in the early and late 19th century from what I've made out, though there could be the very odd late 18th century straggler in the mix too. Much more from the late 18th century survives to the rear, testament to the damage inflicted on west-facing elevations in Ireland.

Also that picture of ivy on the West Front as promised - this during Michael Collins' funeral in 1922.

Image
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4590
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:12 pm

Well "fond of" rather than "fan of", lets be clear.

I love the pictures of the Salmon statue, it really is so incredibly lively.

Here is what we were told about the restoration works: "The Rubrics was constructed circa 1720 and is amongst the oldest surviving buildings on the college campus. The restoration will involve work to the chimneys, the roof, the brickwork, the stonework and the windows and will be overseen and supervised by John J OConnell conservation architect." Do you know when the bookends were added btw?
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:29 pm

Oh excellent - a full scale job. It was badly needed. The Rubrics is about 1700 though - the other ranges (since demolished) were 1720s. For once we got left with the older one.

Yes the bookends were added in the 1980s I think - indeed possibly even as late as the early 90s. Because the Rubrics was originally only one range of a square of three similar buildings, and directly abutted the Old Library to one end and the (Darley?) classical corner to the north, it depended on the support of these structures. When the corners were opened up - perhaps the 1890s? - the ends of the Rubrics range were left exposed, and were buckeling badly by the late 20th century, so the crude modern brick bookends were built up against the gable walls.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4590
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby gunter » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:03 pm

This is the bird's eye view of Trinity by Byron (dated1780) from one of those Eddie McParland pamphlets of the 1970s (cost 98p)

The full Library Square, as described by Graham, with Rubricks range at top right.

Image
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:38 am

Design for proposed additions to Trinity College, Dublin: by Thomas Rickman, (1776-1841) west or front elevation of an entrance building with a bell tower.


Image

http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJkdWJsaW4iOw==&pg=33
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby gunter » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:46 am

I wonder where that would have been, hardly on the site of the railings and the lawns in front of existing west front on College Green! That would send notjim over the edge.

I presume it was intended as a replacement for the west range of Library Square where the campanile is now. They seem to have wrestled with different proposals for that site for ages.

This is a print (also from the Eddie McParland booklet) of a Chamber's proposal for a focal point at this location integrated into a scheme to refront the existing brick range.

Image
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:37 pm

The Rickman design is from 1834
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:24 pm

I went to photograph the 1916 memorial today, as another obscure TCD photo, and found it had been discretely replaced since last I looked.

<img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg300/mijton/Image005-2.jpg", width=300>

In memory of 2373 Private Arthur Charles Smith 4th Hussars Killed in Action on 29th April 1916 during The Rebellion in Dublin. Erected by The Officers and Cadets of the Dublin University Officers Training Corps. Original Memorial Replaced by The Queen's Royal Hussars Association 2007
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby gunter » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:40 am

That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

It's a pity that our 'British' heritage has to keep such a low profile. Take note however, that this does not mean that I'm softening my attitude to the front lawns!

I wanted to watch Educating Rita when it was on the box a few weeks ago, but even with the sound turned down, there's only so much Julie Walters you can take. There should have been some good shots of the Pearse Street end of Westland Row taken from the old ramp at Westland Row station in it, but they must be in the second half.

Can you write away and get stills from movies, does anyone know, or do you have to try and do it youself?
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:43 pm

gunter wrote:That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?


Indeed, and partly behind a tree!
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:00 pm

Rubrics with scaffold, the west side is scaffolded, they started the east side today.

<img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg300/mijton/Rubrics1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket", width=300> <img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg300/mijton/Rubrics2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket", width=300> <img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg300/mijton/Rubrics3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket", width=300>
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby gunter » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:51 pm

Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

Leaving aside issues with the lawns, the Pearse St. block and the clientele, the biggest reservation I'd have with Trinity is that there's no tangible connection with the pre-Georgian heritage of the place.

Trinity was an Elizabethan foundation (1592 or whatever) yet nobody, in the succeeding centuries, ever thought that it might be nice to keep a corner of a building somewhere from this foundation period. And what about it's predecessor, the priory of All Hallows, could they not have retained a side chapel, a couple of monks cells, something, just to connect with that layer of the site's history. This need to destroy everything old fashioned seems to have started very early.

The Dineley drawing from 1681 shows the pre-Georgian extent of the buildings.

Image

The least we'll be expecting when notjim gets elevated to provost is that he gets in a few archaeologists to expose the medieval foundations of that tower and steeple, which McParland has placed somewhere between the campanile and the Rubricks.

That would be a start!

If some piece of lawn has to get dug up . . .
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:04 pm

gunter wrote:Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!


True, but it does prompt the question- are they blocking off the path between the Berkeley and the Printing House? Short-cutting cyclists with an aversion to cobbles are curious.

I remembered earlier this old photo I had on my computer. It's one of my favourite views in the college (not a great quality scan, alas).

Image
User avatar
ctesiphon
Old Master
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:39 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:39 pm

gunter wrote:Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!


GrahamH said he was going to get photographs, I was saving him the trouble; in fact I thought it looked rather good. I do keep my photographs small to compensate for their poor quality!

It is a huge pity there is nothing pre-Georgian, have you every been to the other Trinity, in Cambridge? In fact, it is weak on Georgian, Cambridge is generally, Trinity steps straight from the Wren library to the Victorian buildings, but there is something so moving about the scale and texture of Great Court.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:52 pm

Yes it would be great if some excavations could be carried out - a shame the opportunity doesn't appear to have been taken back in the 1970s when much of the cobbling was relaid in Parliament Square.

Some quick pictures of the scaffolding (taken before notjim's, and some the same. Great minds etc).

Image



Image



Image


Big job.

Image


Also one of the many late 18th century windows to the rear (east) elevation that retains much of its original crown glass, none of which appears to survive on the main facade (not the best pic).

Image

Walking along in the evening is always best, as all of the shimmering panes in the shade catch the bright sky beautifully.
Scaffolding is starting to go up at this side too.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4590
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:41 pm

So the College has just applied for permission for the Digital Hub building, this will be a four story upwards extension of the Arts Building, on top of the Edmund Burke lecture theatre, that is, on your left as you enter the college from Nassau St, behind the 1937 Reading Room, which will be linked to it by an underground passage. The architects are Mc Cullough Mulvin.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:38 pm

Just to show where the new building is to go, on top of Edmund Burke in the Arts Block on the left of the Nassau St entrance as you come in.

<img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=90", width=150> <img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=91", width=150>

It will be behind 1937 Reading Room and connected to it by an underground passage, I guess it will cease being a graduate library.
<img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=92", width=250>
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby spoil_sport » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:08 pm

"I guess it will cease being a graduate library."

That seems like a strange conclusion to reach, why do you say that? There is nothing in the site notice that suggests a change of use. Surely the new building would in some way be an extension of its functions if they are making a link to it.
The position of the edmund burke theatre has always been a problem I think, it's an obstacle without properly completing the square, it seems right (or logical) to build there. 4 average height stories would make it about the same height as the old library and probably below that of the arts building.
spoil_sport
Member
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:15 pm

Ok that was only a guess, but since they are building a corridor my guess is that they will include the Reading Room, either as an impressive seminar space.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby notjim » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:10 am

This has a planning number now
4064/08
so it is
http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=4064/08

The documents aren't scanned yet. Here is the site notice:

PROTECTED STRUCTURE - The development comprises the construction of a <b>new four storey</b> over 2.1m high ground floor services undercroft Humanities Research building, named the <b> 'Long Room Hub'</b>, (area 1309sqm) at the North side of the Arts Building (a Protected Structure) facing Fellows Square including minor alterations to two protected structures - the Arts Building and 1937 Reading Room.

The Humanities Research building, of plan area 34m x 10.6m, will be finished in <b>stonework</b> and have <b>rooflights projecting above a parapet level</b>; it will be built above the Northern end of the Edmund Burke Theatre within the Arts Building complex and will <b>overhang the northern, western and eastern edges of the single storey roof of the Edmund Burke Theatre</b>, creating a services undercroft which will be enclosed at ground level to act as a service zone.

Alterations to the Edmund Burke Theatre will comprise removal of the plantroom and associated parapet wall which project above the main Theatre roof level and their replacement with a new roof at a lower level to match the existing flat roof level of the Edmund Burke Theatre.

The entrance level of the proposed Humanities Research Building will be approximately 2.1m above the current ground level of Fellows Square; the entrance level will be accessed by an open staircase and lift from Fellows Square; the overall height from ground level to parapet level including undercroft will be 16.25m.

The development will include the construction of an underground corridor linking the proposed Humanities Research Building and the basement of the 1937 Reading Room (a protected structure), including associated openings required for access to the basement of the 1937 Reading Room; the underground corridor will be accessed through a new staircase at the west end of the Humanities Research Building.

The development also comprises ancillary works including the development of a <b>new garden on the roof of the Edmund Burke Theatre</b> incorporating the removal of a planter box and the formation of a new door in the north facade of the main Arts Building at upper ground floor level to provide access to the proposed new building, routing of service cables from the proposed building to the existing centrally located Arts Building plant room at lower ground level and adjustments to existing below ground level fire escape staircases from the Edmund Burke Theatre to accommodate the new building.
notjim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:22 pm

Still no sign of the documents online
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:57 pm

When are the docs for this going to appear online?

Web Reference
Application Date: 14-Aug-2008
Last Date for Observations: 17-Sep-2008

Today 28-August and no sign.
Not that I'm appealing, I would like to see drawings for publication as a news item
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby Devin » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:13 pm

Apparently there's one guy who does all the scanning, and if he's not in, it doesn't get done.
Devin
Old Master
 
Posts: 1509
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:27 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Trinity College Dublin

Postby hutton » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:05 pm

Devin wrote:Apparently there's one guy who does all the scanning, and if he's not in, it doesn't get done.


What? That's madness.

The DCC website seems to have really deteriorated again in recent months - are other people finding this, or is it just certain browsers?
hutton
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: NAMA HQ

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland