Metro North

Re: Metro North

Postby cgcsb » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:40 pm

It wouldn't be possible to have intercity services run through the interconnector such as Cork/Belfast as only electrified carriages can safely enter the tunnel. Diesel units will be unable to make the journey. However a direct Cork/Belfast service could easily be acheived if trains entered huston and turned left under the pheonix park and instead of going to connolly, a minor inexpensive trackalteration would alow the train to turnleft onto the northern line. At the moment though capasity issues on the northern line would not allow for this. In the future though when alot of traffic is diverted away from Connolly this would be a very real possibility with only a miniscule development cost as the infastructure is already in place.
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Re: Metro North

Postby Frank Taylor » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:58 am

alonso wrote:I was always of the impression that MN and MW could both "potentially" carry up to 80,000 pph in both directions but would only operate up to 20,000 at the outset. Bit shitty that MN won't have that potential. But the article only states the width as the issue. What are the headways gonna be. Again, I was led to believe that they could be as low as 90 seconds. Is that still the case? And what impact will that have on the capacity. Does 20,000 relate to 180 sec headways?
The capacity design limitation is the length of the platforms. 90 metre trains will hold roughly 3 times the passengers of a 30m Luas or 700 people. The RPA says their minimum headway is 120 seconds (30 trains per hour) so that makes 30 X 700 = 21,000 passengers per hour per direction (21,000 pphpd). It seems wrong to go to the expense of building this train with short platforms when all our urban train services have reached capacity so quickly in the past.
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Re: Metro North

Postby weehamster » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:08 pm

The funny thing is that before the public consultation, RPA planned to have the platforms only 60m long. :rolleyes:

In reality the platforms should be 140m. You could then wall off the platform so that is only 90m, but when required it would be easily, cheaply and with far less distruption (as the service would be very busy by then) be extended.

You see the problem is the culture at the RPA of build at the cheapest cost possible. Now that might sound a bit obvious to most people, however, when it comes to public transport, you should build for what is needed and will be needed, not what is the cheapest. At one time the RPA proposed not to build escalators on the Metro to help to reduce costs. :rolleyes:

Another example is the Green line extension. The RPA know about trams that are packed out (people can't get on the trams) at several stops before heading into the Green. This will be made worse with the line extension.
Now they are planning to increase the frequency as well as extend the 40m trams to 55m to combat this. However the platforms on the line can only take 40m trams. So eventually the platforms will need to be extended, causing major disrubtion to the busy service.
Now the Green Line extension is building only 40m platforms, even though they know that they will have to be extend. Why can't they do it now before the extended line is open saving major disruption.

Why, because its cheaper... for now.
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Re: Metro North

Postby alonso » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:09 pm

weehamster, while all your facts are correct, I would question where the finger is being pointed. The RPA work to their budget alloted by the DoT. If they're given x billion, they have to spend x billion. The y in x+y billion needed for a decent service is all politics. But you're totally right to highlight these inadequacies. I could be wrong and maybe the RPA executive wilfully neglect long term thinking but I doubt it.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:56 pm

I'm not blaming the RPA but if there hands are tied how can we fix it???
1:4 mirrored for the next 10 years :confused:
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Re: Metro North

Postby Frank Taylor » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:04 am

missarchi wrote:1:4 mirrored for the next 10 years :confused:
What do you mean?
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:07 pm

funding...

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=TRJ20080326.xml&Node=H3#H3

Metro north is a subject the committee wants to discuss. It will run from St. Stephen’s Green with various stops in the city centre, at the Mater Hospital, Drumcondra, Dublin City University, Dublin Airport, Swords and beyond. We intend to apply for a railway order for which the board is scheduled to apply in June, with a submission to be made later in the summer or early autumn. We are engaged in a procurement process for a public private partnership contract for it and pleased with the level of interest in it. It is important that we maintain the momentum for this critical project in the delivery of Transport 21. It will be a high capacity system that will make an enormous difference in transportation in Dublin. Metro west is an orbital route that will connect towns in the western part of Dublin - Tallaght, Clondalkin, Liffey Valley and Blanchardstown - to link with Metro north and the Dardistown area.

As part of the route selection and our preparation of the construction methodology and of traffic management arrangements, every effort has been made and will continue to be made to minimise the disruption that will arise from construction. In his letter inviting us to meet the committee, the Chairman referred to the “big dig”. We are not using the phrase “big dig” as it reminds people of the big dig in Massachusetts, which was a cut and cover tunnel where the full length of the tunnel in the city centre area was entirely excavated. That is not the case in Dublin where we will have a bored tunnel. However, station locations such as St. Stephen’s Green, O’Connell Bridge, Parnell Square and the Mater Hospital will be major construction sites to provide for the putting in place of large underground railway stations.

:mad:minimize disruption I hope this does not compromise the design?

We are working carefully with Dublin City Council, Dublin Bus and many other interests to ascertain how we can minimise the impact of disruption during construction. We are engaging with business interests in the city centre and are pleased about the strong support we have received from them. There is unanimity among business representative organisations that metro north is critically required. They want us to ensure that every effort is made to minimise disruption and we are committed to doing that.

We discussed with them the issue that sometimes there is a trade off between minimising, to the maximum extent possible, the space available for construction - however, that prolongs the construction phase - and the length of time construction takes. The design of these systems is an integrative process. We come up with a station design and examine the traffic management, which suggests that changes are required and we then change the construction design. That work is continuing and will continue in our negotiations with the PPP contractors.

An important feature of the arrangements we are putting in place to try to preserve, to the maximum extent possible, routes within the city centre, particularly for public transport, especially bus transport as the bus will continue to be a workhorse of public transport for the foreseeable future, is an agreement that an additional bridge will be put in place in Marlborough Street. Therefore, if capacity is removed in the O’Connell Street area, additional capacity will be made available in the Marlborough Street area. We continue to work with the various stakeholders to make sure that we come up with a solution that is reasonable under the circumstances and does not prolong the construction period too long.

:mad:preserve routes for public transport ie cars ? and no space for bikes/people/footpaths...
he is quoting a well known fella?

In that context, it should also help that not only will an additional bridge be put in place in the Marlborough Street area but that by then the Macken Street Bridge will be constructed and some of the other road projects, including the widening of the M50, will be complete. That should help to deal with the level of congestion in the city centre.

............................

calatrava will be coming again two 2 + 1 roads?

............................

Mr. Frank Allen: Information Zoom Exactly. However, costs can vary considerably from city to city. This committee invited the president of the Madrid metro to visit here some years ago. He had indicated, from his estimation of costs in Ireland relative to Madrid, that the cost in Ireland was very considerably higher. He had come up with estimates for what he thought it would cost to build the Dublin metro which were presented to this committee and it was a different concept to what we have today. He indicated that comparing the Dublin metro with Madrid is comparing two radically different things.


..................

I would be curious about price comparisons with Budapest ? paper and don't believe english:cool: maybe its to late

...............

We have worked closely with Mr. Barry and his team. Many of those who worked on the Dublin Port tunnel now work as part of the RPA team.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd: The major issue raised at the weekend was the capacity of the metro in terms of the volume it will carry and that one could have a maximum and a minimum amount per hour. I understand the metro will carry 24,000 people per hour. Is that correct?

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: On the same point, the systems in the UK and elsewhere can carry 70,000 people per hour. The former Taoiseach and leader of Fine Gael, Garret FitzGerald, is still with us in this debate.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd: He will shortly address a meeting on the Lisbon treaty.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: In respect of his ongoing critique of the Luas, why do we not build a system with a 70,000 per hour capacity?

Mr. Frank Allen: I am pleased to say Mr. FitzGerald and ourselves are on the same page in respect of this point. I would be amazed if any location in the world has the numbers suggested by Deputy Broughan but perhaps the bullet trains in the centre of Tokyo have them.

..........................

:p Dublin would love some of those trains but the prodigy ant happy

................................

Mr. Frank Allen: Indeed, it is for that reason that a 2,000 space park and ride facility is proposed in Lissenhall.

great we will have 2000 bicycle spaces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: Information Zoom Mr. Allen has been very helpful to us during my time on this committee. The great Mr. Frank McDonald believes we should scrap this plan but Fingal Deputies do not agree. My constituents will be interested to know if the tunnels will be big enough for heavier trains. Is that a significant aspect of the current plan?

Mr. Frank Allen: The platform length in an underground station is the issue. As a practical matter, that is fixed. It is not practical to extend the platform length within the tunnel. We have taken the question into account in developing the size and scope of the project and are very confident that, based on the projections for Dublin Airport Authority, Fingal County Council and others, we will provide adequate capacity.

.......................................
Publication Date: 20/02/2008
Application Deadline:
Notice Deadline Date: 18/03/2008
Notice Deadline Time:
Notice Type: Tender
Has Documents: No
Abstract: Title attributed to the contract by the contracting entity: RPA7162
Transport Model Upgrade.
RPA is seeking to procure consultants to update its transport forecasting
model to a new base year and enhance the
Functionality of the model to allow RPA to forecast Luas, Metro and other
transport demand with confidence in the future.
CPV: 74000000, 74276400, 74200000, 74312100, 74210000.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: If the line goes all the way out to Bray, in accordance with the previous public transport plan

:phint hint

There is tremendous momentum. The RPA has tripled its staff in the past two years. The pace is at times unprecedented for public transport. I am satisfied with that, although I would like it to be moving more quickly.


..................

The RPA has not employed one single design adviser since April 2007?

Title: IRL-Parkgate Street: urban planning and landscape architectural services
Published by: Railway Procurement Agency
Publication Date: 07/02/2008
Application Deadline:
Notice Deadline Date: 05/03/2008
Notice Deadline Time:
Notice Type: Tender
Has Documents: No
Abstract: Title attributed to the contract by the contracting entity:
RPA7156_Arboriculturist Framework Agreement.
RPA intends to enter into framework agreement(s) with one or more parties
for the provision of arboricultural services.
CPV: 74250000, 90310000.

VI.3) PROCEDURES FOR APPEAL
VI.3.1) Body responsible for appeal procedures: The High Court, Chief
Registrar, Four Courts, Inns Quay, IRL-Dublin 7. Tel. +353 (0)1 888 6000.
URL: http://www.courts.ie. Fax +353 (0)1 888 6125.;)

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: Information Zoom With regard to metro north, when does Mr. Allen expect the boring machines to begin moving?

Mr. Frank Allen: Information Zoom Our intention is that if the board of the RPA passes a resolution to apply for a railway order in June, by the time that is fully printed, environmental impact statements taken care of and so forth, we will apply for a railway order to An Bord Pleanála late in the summer or in early autumn. We are targeting that the process with An Bord Pleanála, which is now working well under the strategic infrastructure Act, will take nine months. If we get it in nine months, we will be very pleased. That will be well into 2009.

We have sought permission from the Government and funding has been provided to carry out preliminary works, in terms of moving utilities, towards the end of 2009 so that when the PPP contractor arrives on the site much of the preliminary work will be done and work can begin in 2010. However, that depends on no major issues arising in An Bord Pleanála and a successful procurement process. We are working to reduce the risks but some things are not entirely under our control. It means not finding any major archaeological sites, although we have provided for time for some archaeology if we encounter sites. All of that influences the programme. Our programme aims to obtain a railway order from An Bord Pleanála in 2009. By the end of 2009, we will do utility diversions to get contractors on the ground as early as possible in 2010.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: They would be much smaller tunnels.

Mr. Frank Allen: Yes, they would be much smaller tunnels and the impact would be far less than the port tunnel.


I want what they are having :rolleyes:

We have had discussions with Dublin City Council and with business in the city centre about what would be a tolerable level of disruption for public transport in the city centre. The very clear position is that building major stops for metro north at St. Stephen’s Green, O’Connell Bridge and Parnell, while simultaneously having a linear project being constructed up O’Connell Street and down Marlborough Street, when Marlborough Street is required as the substitute route for buses into that area, would result in an unacceptable level of disruption to the city during the construction phase. We have suggested to the Minister for Transport that we will put down the Luas tracks when the streets are being reinstated in the final phase of metro north in areas such as St. Stephen’s Green, Westmoreland Street and parts of O’Connell Street.

In respect of building parts of the metro in the Fingal area, the critical path and the really complex parts of metro north are clearly in the city centre. The most complex part is around the O’Connell Bridge area, for various reasons. From an engineering point of view,

:o yeap I didn't hear the word urban design

Chairman: Two people have been very patient and we must end. Mr. Allen gave the project the nickname “the big dig”. I know it is not comparable to the one in Boston but it will be much bigger in terms of the disruption it will cause. Is the whole point not that we must take traffic out of the city centre and use the bus as our key workhorse in the next five years, while the development work is under way? Is that not the key to keeping the city open, as Mr. Allen put it?





your thoughts?
why the limit on smiles?
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Re: Metro North

Postby notjim » Tue May 06, 2008 12:01 am

A letter in today's times which could well have been written by our own missarchi:

MAKING THE METRO BEAUTIFUL
Madam, - Once again we have a major article from Frank McDonald, attempting to undermine confidence in the Metro proposals ("The tearing of the Green", April 26th). Can we please have some balance in this debate?

For myself, I am glad that years of campaigning for a Metro at last seem to be paying off. However, I think it would be lamentable if we were left with a kind of rough, exposed concrete presentation of these stations in an attempt to save money.

For the sake of a couple of hundred thousand euro, Dublin Port Tunnel - which, despite its defects, has had a major impact in siphoning off articulated trucks from the Dublin quays - presents an unlovely appearance to the passer-by and the user.

Instead of decent landscaping and a proper formal approach celebrating the city of Dublin, we are left with what looks like a corrugated iron surface on something that resembles a giant hoover flying in from outer space and embedding itself in the Dublin soil.

Can we please have a bit of imagination with the proposed Metro stations? Let us take a leaf out of the book of Paris and Moscow, spend a few bob in giving them a human face and show our pride in our culture by having recessed display cabinets exhibiting reproductions of some of the treasures of our culture, such as the gold torcs in the National Museum, the Ardagh Chalice, Tara Brooch, The Books of Kells, etc.

When we are going to spend so much money, why not present such a project appropriately? - Yours, etc,
Senator DAVID NORRIS,
Seanad Éireann,
Dublin 2.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed May 07, 2008 6:34 am

The meaning of tourist gateway...
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Re: Metro North

Postby TLM » Mon May 12, 2008 12:11 pm

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Re: Metro North

Postby JoePublic » Mon May 12, 2008 7:25 pm

Ack, it'll do, just build the feckin thing already.

At least they're showing a few escalators.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Mon May 12, 2008 7:37 pm

Thanks for that TLM....

Toy town??? Are they serious or is this a joke???? If its not a joke read below...
For all Ireland's claim of innovation? architecture , graphic design, industrial design , urban planning

He said St Stephen's Green will have a 20 metre platform???
300 x 300mm tiles because they are cheaper to lay
Alcoholic advertising
The signage is horrible
The cream downstand is a dogs dinner
Electronic advertising with sound and projections?

Are they really serious??

madrid has marble floors at the airport and is what 2 euro a pop?

OMA haag tram with style:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rugb66/15280702/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/76008010@N00/308941781/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/masa79/6936038/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/76008010@N00/308941786/in/photostream/

nice clocks:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/1295351077/

Russia

http://russos.livejournal.com/411015.html#cutid1

Others

http://community.livejournal.com/metrogiprotrans/4633.html

Budapests...

Brazilians do it better!!!!
strogino from russia with love...
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Mon May 26, 2008 7:32 pm

http://www.ireland.com/head2head/

Frank meet Frank
I will be quite frank with you : P
Frank who is your favorite architect?
Frankly I don't care... j/k

Interesting article that doesn't dig too deep... A question and answer would have been great!!! or a show and tell

The question is of architecture in my mind...
Does the architecture stack up?
Are the RPA or CIE for that matter any better than other designers do they have the moduli operandi?
What international architecture awards have the CIE/RPA won?
Do they need some help from the OPW or some more open sources?
Or a one track mind one man band...
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Re: Metro North

Postby notjim » Mon May 26, 2008 7:37 pm

I hate when people repeat themselves; Frank McDonald has expressed his view, we all know it, to repeat it is not good debate. I wish he would get back to commentating on development and design in Ireland, something I, for one, sorely miss.
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Re: Metro North

Postby Conorworld » Tue May 27, 2008 7:43 pm

Talking about the aesthetics of it, having bare concrete walls doesn't mean it can't be aesthetically pleasing. It's been 7 years but I remember the Bilbao metro. The passageways are concrete but done in a good way and the stations are pretty simple, at least in the city centre that I know of. Everyone talks about the entrances which are very simple and effective. Simple touches to concrete can make a big difference.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Tue May 27, 2008 9:36 pm

Conorworld wrote:Talking about the aesthetics of it, having bare concrete walls doesn't mean it can't be aesthetically pleasing. It's been 7 years but I remember the Bilbao metro. The passageways are concrete but done in a good way and the stations are pretty simple, at least in the city centre that I know of. Everyone talks about the entrances which are very simple and effective. Simple touches to concrete can make a big difference.


There is nothing wrong with bare concrete if its done right but for grand central it will be difficult to cut it?
Green on green is where its at irish green mable even more so and some of the black irish stuff.
Any one can do concrete but who can do green on green well...
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:11 pm

RPA is pleased to be able to inform you that good progress is being made with plans for Metro North which will extend from St. Stephen's Green, via Dublin Airport to Belinstown. RPA intends to apply to An Bord Pleanála later this year with the aim of starting construction in 2009.

In advance of submitting the Railway Order application to An Bord Pleanála, RPA would like to invite you to the following Open Days to learn more about the Stops close to you:

When: Tuesday 15/07/08; 6pm - 9pm
Where: Mater Centre for Nurse Education, Nelson Street, Dublin 7
What: Mater Stop

When: Thursday 17/07/08; 12pm - 8pm
Where: Conference Centre, Regency Hotel, Drumcondra, Dublin 9
What: Drumcondra, Griffith Avenue Stops and St. Patrick's College Ventilation Shaft

When: Thursday 24/07/08; 12pm - 8pm
Where: Ballymun Civic Offices, Ballymun, Dublin 11
What: Dublin City University and Ballymun Stops

When: Tuesday 29/07/08; 12pm - 8pm
Where: Dublin City Council Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 2
What: St. Stephen's Green, O'Connell Bridge and Parnell Square Stops

When: Thursday 31/07/08; 12pm - 8pm
Where: Fingal County Council Civic Offices, Swords, Co. Dublin
What: Northwood, Dardistown, Airport, Fosterstown, Swords, Seatown and Belinstown Stops

RPA representatives will be on hand to answer your queries.

We look forward to seeing you there!

A positive step forward... I hope it is not like the CIE one which was very very vague and they did not respond to comments and jumped around questions asked and did not provide information
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Re: Metro North

Postby SunnyDub » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:23 pm

If you can post any info that you get that'd be much appreciated, assuming they do provide information.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:12 am

tick tok
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Re: Metro North

Postby cgcsb » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:54 am

What is the above piture of?
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Re: Metro North

Postby cgcsb » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:15 pm

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/moving-statues-but-spire-stays-put-for-subway-work-1431406.html

How is the arch at Stephen's Green to be moved, surely it'd collapse if it were moved
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Re: Metro North

Postby Andrew Duffy » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:44 am

It will be dismantled, stored and reassembled. It's been done many times before - for example the entrance to the Museum of Modern Art was moved from the liffey quays well over a century ago when carriage traffic to and from Heuston Station got too heavy.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:50 am

yesterdays news...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/traffic-ban-to-create-pedestrian-spine-through-the-heart-of-dublin-1458482.html

By Paul Melia

Tuesday August 19 2008

TRAFFIC is to be completely banned from the Grafton Street corner of Dublin’s St Stephen’s Green when a public plaza is created as part of works for the Metro North light-rail system.

The Railway Procurement Agency is currently in discussions with Dublin City Council about creating the plaza at the top of the city’s premier shopping street, which could see the whole area transformed into a pedestrian-only area.

And yesterday it emerged the Fusilier's Arch at the entrance to St Stephen’s Green will have be removed for four years during construction works.

The statue of Daniel O’Connell on the capital’s main thoroughfare will also be temporarily removed during the construction of underground stations.

No decision has been made as to where to relocate the iconic statue during the four years of building work, but it is planned to re-instate it once the stations are completed.

And it has emerged that more than 40 mature trees will have to be removed from St Stephen’s Green to accommodate an underground station, work on which is expected to start next year.

The RPA’s chief architect, Jim Quinlan, last night outlined the vision for St Stephen's Green and the city centre after works are complete and Metro North is up and running.

“We want to try and declutter that area and create a public plaza,” he told the Irish Independent.

“It’s already a great place for people to meet and we’re going to remove traffic and create a much more pedestrian zone with more, and better, street furniture.

“We’ll move the bike stands to create space, and we’ll have to figure out where to put the horse and carts, taxis and bikes.

“It’s a fantastic opportunity and it could be extended to College Green and Westmoreland Street because we’re digging that up as well. It’s a great opportunity to create a pedestrian spine through the heart of the city.”

But parts of St Stephen’s Green will be changed forever, with up to 45 mature trees removed to facilitate construction of the underground station. Three small ‘boxes' or escape hatches will also be built within the park walls, while air vents will be located on the island in the middle of the lake.

However a 'living wall' will be created, which will see plants and shrubbery shielding the vents from park users over time. “St Stephen’s Green can’t go back exactly as it was, there will be some vents on the island, but they’ll be disguised,” he said.

“A lot of the trees in place need a lot of root space, and we’re working with the Office of Public Works to see what species can go back in. We think 44 or 45 mature trees will have to be removed.”

Mr Quinlan, who is leaving the RPA later this week to take up a new position as chief architect with the Dubai light rail project, also said he expected the project to be delivered by its 2014 deadline.

But he admitted the construction works would be painful, and that “hundreds of acres” of land would be needed for the project. “There’s radar mapping now which tells us exactly what’s underground,” he said. “We’ll need quite a lot of land, but we’ve tried to ensure we’re under public roads and land. Traffic management will have an impact on the city, and it (disruption) will be more than Luas.

“St Stephen’s Green, O’Connell Street, Parnell Square, the Mater and Drumcondra all present big problems. Abbey Street to the Quays will have to be dug up, and some side streets will be closed off in Drumcondra. The 2014 deadline is a big call, it’s very complex but we’re taking an optimistic view. Some things are out of our hands, and planning could take longer (than expected).” Construction works will start at a number of locations across the city, assuming An Bord Pleanala approve the project, he added.

- Paul Melia
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Re: Metro North

Postby Denton » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:11 am

Apparently the applications have been pushed back too january for the four firms bidding for the project.(acording to this mornings metro)



Lets hope that the whole project is built as one entity with the interconnector as many of the finalised plans include the interchange and its impossible to rip up the park again.


If all things go ahead, we might not see these projects a year apart, but they WILL be built. Even if it does take longer. The interconnector is essential for the future of the dart, the metro north however does have opostition.


The metro might not have an easily excessible stop at the airport and its capacity may be far smaller than it should be for services too the airport as well as commuter services too the "city" of swords and future developments too the north.


I for one hate the idea of a underground tram. But if they build the stations with room for change and build it too the same gauge as the luas and metro west, or go all out and make it Irish gauge, then there's hope for the future.:rolleyes:
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:44 pm

I'm starting to think that we will never see a pre-application file made public?
I think the minister for transport got put in a difficult position by the RPA and CIE to some extent
What the minister for environment will have to say no body knows...
If the bids are just to get a ballpark figure then that is fine but I would assume they don't want to award the contracts until they have a railway order in place... They are probable beefing up the EIS making a nice fancy model for a photo shoot. I just hope the whole project is not rammed through in a kodak moment while santa is eating cookies. Time will tell... as long as the public get a fair trial...

I gave up writing letters to them along time ago... now they will get drawings...
missarchi
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