Cork Transport

Re: Cork Transport

Postby browser » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:55 am

KeepAnEyeOnBob wrote:The tram bus things are unlikely to work, because to make proper use of them you need at least a skeleton cheap version of tram infrastructure. I.e. you need longer bus bays, adaptation of junctions to avoid turning problems, bus lanes, automatic ticketing and ticket spot checks (to allow use of rear doors and avoid queues of people buying/validating tickets on-board).

I can pretty much guarantee that Bus Éireann are unlikely to do anything beyond use bustrams as higher capacity buses, either through lack of will on their part, or no resources for them to follow through even if they like the idea of the above (admittedly, despite not regarding BÉ that highly, I would suggest they probably would like them to work and would like proper infrastructure, but aren't going to get it). Bustrams would therefore have much longer and more problematic loading/unloading at stops and so will probably result in a degradation of service (although on routes where people are left behind at stops currently they may give people a journey at the expense of travel time overall).


Thanks for clarifying that. Glad to hear it too, Bus trams will not work. If people have rail they will ditch their car for it (or at least many will). Buses, no matter how frequent etc, can never achieve the same level of use. Call it a snob thing or whatever but i think that's a well proven fact the world over that rail/trams attract far more users than bus. I suppose the reliability of journey time and departure time is the key thing.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Saucy Jack » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:01 pm

browser wrote:Thanks for clarifying that. Glad to hear it too, Bus trams will not work. If people have rail they will ditch their car for it (or at least many will). Buses, no matter how frequent etc, can never achieve the same level of use. Call it a snob thing or whatever but i think that's a well proven fact the world over that rail/trams attract far more users than bus. I suppose the reliability of journey time and departure time is the key thing.



How many ex.Soviet Block Eastern European countries have great tram systems cheap and efficient ?

There is always excuses here NOT to do something.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby browser » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:56 pm

Think we are at cross purposes. When I say rail I mean light rail and trams (ie. Luas types). What I am not in favour of is these glorified buses that are described as bus-trams. They are buses full stop in my opinion. These aren't what you find in eastern europe methinks.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby lawyer » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:43 pm

kite wrote::rolleyes:Great to see that our city fathers have such faith in our public transport system that they plan to increase the cost of on street parking fees dramatically in an effort to force those who have not had the pleasure of using our light rail system, modern buses, and riverboats to do so.

Does this mean that our officials will use our transport system and forgo the unlimited free city center parking they enjoy? Given that we sold Navigation House to OCP at a 4 million discount to ensure free parking for city staff I would not hold my breath on that one.

Still our staff are extremely busy at present, and are working flat out to complete the ;)purchase (bail out) of unsold housing stock that is “building” daily, the last thing they need is to worry about is, if the bus will blown a head gasket again while stuck in suburban traffic!


Surely the tax payers in Cork have some comeback against the City Manager etc. regarding what I would call an abuse of our money in buying parking spaces for the City Hall staff and at the same time driving ( if you will excuse the pun) the ordinary citizen (who pay their saleries) out of the city by clamping, towing and disc parking in every available spot.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:00 pm

lawyer wrote:Surely the tax payers in Cork have some comeback against the City Manager etc. regarding what I would call an abuse of our money in buying parking spaces for the City Hall staff and at the same time driving ( if you will excuse the pun) the ordinary citizen (who pay their saleries) out of the city by clamping, towing and disc parking in every available spot.


You would imagine so, but some officials in this Country have no regard for any authority...not even the High Courts of Ireland
http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2001/53.html
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:38 am

thats amazing - the management of a local authority ignores the courts orders for years but the result is that the taxpayer loses £50k, the costs of the case and the cost of the engineer.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:07 pm

Pug wrote:thats amazing - the management of a local authority ignores the courts orders for years but the result is that the taxpayer loses £50k, the costs of the case and the cost of the engineer.


Yep, change Galway for Harare, City Manager for Dictator Mugabe and you would not believe this scutting could happen in Zimbabwe, BUT this is Ireland, anything can happen, and normally does.

Remind me again, who was the Galway city manager at the time?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:54 am

The Turkeys have voted for Christmas!!
The board of Cork Airport voted last night to tie a 113 million noose around their necks.
Will the board (the brewer, the metal merchant, the fish monger etc etc) pay towards the debt??
Or will it be left to the same fools that are being asked for 58 million to assist the relocation of Port of Cork…:eek:us taxpayers.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Saucy Jack » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:50 am

11 April 2008

Cork Airport votes to accept €113m debt

By Eoin English
THE board of Cork Airport was split last night after agreeing by just one vote to accept a €113 million debt to secure independence from Dublin Airport.


Transport Minister Noel Dempsey had to guarantee government support, including financial support, if the airport cannot meet its repayments in the years ahead.

The assurance was given during a marathon meeting of the Cork Airport Authority (CAA) during which contacts were also made with the government-appointed mediator Peter Cassells.



He was asked by Mr Dempsey in February to help break the bitter four-year impasse between the CAA and Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) over funding and separation.

Mr Cassells recommended a package which included the CAA assuming responsibility for a €113m DAA loan. He said the DAA should transfer ownership to the CAA of land around Cork airport and its stake in the Brooklyn business park, which together have a combined value of €50m to €70m.

Mr Cassells also suggested the DAA make a payment of up to €10m to the CAA to help it meet pension and “other funding requirements”. He said when all the factors are considered, Cork would separate from Dublin with a funding solution of €20m to €40m.

The CAA finally voted by the slimmest of margins last night to accept the package.

A statement issued by the CAA after the vote said it was extremely disappointed that the Government’s 2004 promise of a debt-free independent airport has not been delivered. It described the Cassells’ report as unfair

“The board of CAA has strong reservations about the level of debt that Cork Airport is being levied with and its potential impact on its sustainability,” it said.

“In this regard, the board has sought and received assurances from the Minister for Transport that an independent Cork Airport can rely on support, financial or otherwise, to ensure the airport’s continued viability in the event of it being unable to meet its fixed funding obligations as a consequence of the occurrence of certain adverse business risks or extraordinary events.”

The CAA said it is prepared to work with the proposals to develop an independent airport. It also said assurances given to airport staff regarding their pensions and terms and conditions of employment need to be implemented in full.

Last night, Cork North Central TD Fine Gael’s Bernard Allen said local ministers and government TDs had “shown no political backbone” on this issue and “they needed to put the interests of the region over self interest”.

He said the debt could mean huge increases in airport charges which low cost airlines won’t tolerate.

Time for Cork to stand alone and compete ?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Leesider » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:47 am

so the same government that said the airport would be debt free are going to help it out if there are any problems in the future!! Cork politicans are a spineless bunch.......and Martin let this happen in his own backyard, how the hell was that muppet voted back in!!
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby corkdood » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:59 am

I hope in 4 years times (or less) when the next general election comes aroundthat the people of Cork remember what FF and their government partners have done to the city. Micheal Martin and Noel O'Flynn and their fellow Cork TDs have been strangely silent over the debt. They must be rubbing their hands with glee now that the CAA have given in and accepted the debt.
Cork airport will remain a backwater in airport terms for the forseeable future.
i imagine that many of the low cost operators will be driven out by the inevitable rise in airport charges. in any case the eastern european flights will become much quieter in the months ahead as many of those who were employed in the building boom return home.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby jungle » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:26 am

I'd say there was intense pressure to get this cleared up well in advance of the local elections, so it isn't an issue there. Voters are far more likely to punish government parties in the locals than in the general election. Unfortunately, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael could put up Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Pol Pot as candidates and still walk away with three of the five seats in Cork South Central.

Still amidst all this a special word of congratulations must go to Michael McGrath for showing a level of contempt for the electorate that is breathtaking even from a Fianna Fail politician. "What? You actually believed what I said in my election literature?"

And if anyone who isn't standing tries to point out his bare-faced lies next time round, they are breaking electoral law. Great democracy we have...
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Saucy Jack » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:09 am

jungle wrote:Still amidst all this a special word of congratulations must go to Michael McGrath for showing a level of contempt for the electorate that is breathtaking even from a Fianna Fail politician. "What you actually believed what I said in my election literature?"

And if anyone who isn't standing tries to point out his bare-faced lies next time round, they are breaking electoral law. Great democracy we have...


He told me to my face that Cork Airport would not be saddled with this millstone .

The arrogance of these people.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:00 am

According to Eoin English in today’s IE, Transport Minister Noel Dempsey rubbished claims by the CAA that he promised financial support should Cork Airport struggle to service its 113 million debt.

The opposition party’s charge came from tea bag Barry’s daughter:o, plus of course the obligatory quote from one of the Buttimer boys:o. And we wonder why FF keep getting elected??
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby mickeydocs » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:18 am

Well hate to say it but we deserve who we vote in. I am really starting to despise the 'I'm alright' attitude of our citizens.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:45 am

Leesider wrote:so the same government that said the airport would be debt free are going to help it out if there are any problems in the future!! Cork politicans are a spineless bunch.......and Martin let this happen in his own backyard, how the hell was that muppet voted back in!!


All will be well with our airport now that FG has brought out the “big guns” to fight the Government on the matter.
Following tea bag Barry’s daughters earth shattering statement in the Dail (now what did she say again?) comes last nights momentous announcement by Dino “chipshop” Gregan that he will be “waiting in the long grass” to ambush FF and the Green Party at next years Local Elections.
I hope the airport will be still open so he can catch a flight to Cork from his "other home", where he of course represents his constituents to the best of his ability.
Sad, sad, sad….
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:43 am

bus eireann announced 2 new routes for cork yesterday, to Mahon/Jacobs Island and Mount Oval. Probably most welcome if they can avoid the traffic. Slightly late given the houses are built a while though.

They will also be increasing frequency of some other bus routes this year. All well and good. No mention of nightlinks, I'd like to have seen improvements to the main suburbs as well such as where I live, Carrigaline (most car dependent town in the country), service no where near frequent enough for that size of town and in my experience its more reliable to drive to work and get a taxi at weekends.

No mention of the bus/tram things either

Ad in the Examiner today for Transport 21 for cork and the tag line is "The Transport System You Deserve" - could also sound like a threat
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Radioactiveman » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:17 pm

This is way too late. These services should have been in place years ago!

In other transport news, Joe Gantly has tendered his resignation as Head of the CAA. He probably deserves a break after all he's been through. In fairness though, he's been as good as his word...he promised to bring about devolution from Dublin and he's done it...eventually.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:16 pm

An Taoiseach has suggested that his successor should consider a new government jet because with the current one "you can’t stand up" and it "has no toilet". He is referring to the Learjet 45 purchased new in 2004 for € 8.5 million.

He also critisised the Beech Kingair 200 which enterned service in 1980 for having suffered a number of electrical fires, including one in flight.

Wonder if Cork can have the old crocks as is the case with our cast off buses from Dublin?
:oThat genius Cllr. Dara Murphy could use them to fly from the city centre to Mayfield. That should sort out his major worry in life, i.e. the delay suffered by the Mayfield bus getting caught up in the Bishopstown traffic, traffic caused by silly decisions taken by him and other city lightweights.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Radioactiveman » Fri May 02, 2008 9:45 am

Anybody else think these hospital files were planted in Glounthane to prove to us that the Cork -Midleton rail line is FINALLY on its way?
Seriously though, its good to see work started....although I'm sure we'll see a few more launches before the trains start rolling.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Fri May 02, 2008 9:51 am

Radioactiveman wrote:This is way too late. These services should have been in place years ago!

In other transport news, Joe Gantly has tendered his resignation as Head of the CAA. He probably deserves a break after all he's been through. In fairness though, he's been as good as his word...he promised to bring about devolution from Dublin and he's done it...eventually.



yes by acepting 113 million in debt - meanwhile Dublin Airport ploughs ahead and builds almost a new town. One of the Cork Airport board apparently abstained from the vote (which is incredible, surely at least have the guts to make a decision one way or the other). Then Joe Gantly resigns soon after the decision? thats some bad timing in fairness
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:14 am

New car-sharing initiative in Cork starts today apparently in an attempt to reduce the number of cars on the streets.

GoCar, which allows motorists to book and rent cars when they need them, will be fully operational in Cork by July. The service will be operated by Mendes GoCar , specialists in sustainable transport , based in Cloughjordan, Co Tipperary, and Cambio, a firm which operates car sharing in cities in Germany and Belgium.

The venture, backed by the city council, will see 4 designated on-street parking bays on Anglesea Street, Wandesford Quay, and two bays near UCC for the GoCars fleet — six Ford Fiestas, a Ford Focus and a Transit Connect van.

The vehicles can be booked using the internet or phone. Motorists then use a smartcard to unlock the vehicle before inputting a PIN number to start the engine. GoCar MD Graham Lightfoot said the initiative will give motorists a high-quality alternative to ownership of a private car. “You can book a car for as little as one hour from €5 and just pay as you go on hours and kilometres,” he said. “There are no hidden costs, no parking fees, and no maintenance, repair or NCT costs. Insurance and motor taxes are also covered.”

The city council has signed up for 3 cars for use by staff during work hours.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Saucy Jack » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:21 am

Pug wrote:New car-sharing initiative in Cork starts today apparently in an attempt to reduce the number of cars on the streets.



The city council has signed up for 3 cars for use by staff during work hours.


Will the City Hall still require all the car parking spaces that they eat up ?

With the price of Oil increasing all the time still no transport authority for the greater Cork area or light rail / Luas etc ?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:19 pm

:)Interesting proposal before CCC from Comrade Mick Ahren;
“Red Mick” is calling for all cycle lanes to be protected from other road users by the provision of “plastic road furniture, poles about one metre high, set at intervals of every two metres along the cycleway”

:oSure it is light years ahead of Dara Murphy’s and Brian Birmingham’s traffic proposals to; ban the Mayfield bus from going to Bishopstown where it would get delayed on its return journey to the north side and the provision of a San Francisco cable car to transport the great unwashed to the top of Patrick’s Hill.

:rolleyes:Rumour has it that another of our “elected fathers” is looking into getting Scotty to rebuild the transporter form the USS Starship Enterprise to transport our elected officials between important meetings. Concerns have been raised with all the “hot air” on board that Scotty will get hoarse from shouting; “I can no stop her from overheating Captain”
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:29 am

Cork City Council beginning a study on transport in Cork to be published in 2009

The cynical view is that its just another plan that will go nowhere given that Cork cant get funding for transport infrstructure in boom times (Kent Station redevelopment, Bandon/Sarsfield Roundabout, Cork Airport, Atkins Transport Study for Carrigaline that came up with various solutions none of which can be implemented as there is no funds available) let alone in times of volatile markets

or

the optimists view is that its the first time the city council have turned to the transport users in a big way to see what they want from the transport and the funding that might come for the Docklands (once the EU get over the No vote in the Lisbon treaty) might find its way to other transport inititiatives

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/roadstransportation/trafficdivision/localtransportplan/

Worth putting in any suggestions to the questionnaire anyway
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