pearse street developments

Re: pearse street developments

Postby jimg » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:01 am

jimg wrote:I found this old photograph of Pearse St. while dicking about on the web:
Image
It took quite a while for me to find my bearings with the photo as the corner building mirrors Doyles Pub across the street which I found very disorienting. The giveaway is the firestation tower in the background behind the wierd christmas tree thing or whatever it is.

Ok it's a fairly trivial piece of knowledge but I found out what the "weird christmas tree thing" in the above photo is. It was called the Crampton Memorial and apparently Cosgrave's Illustrated Dictionary of Dublin, has an entry:
[INDENT]
The Cramption Memorial at the junction of College-strret with Gt Brunswick-street, was erected from the design of J. Kirk R H A. A paper of 1862 states: 'The sculptor hopes it will be a monument to himself as well as to Sir P. Cramption'. It is generally called 'The Water Babe' but less flattering names have been applied. It consists of a stone base with three drinking fountains]
This fountain has been placed here,
A type of helath and usefulness,
by the friends and admirers,
Of Sir Philip Cramption, Bart.,
Surgeon-General to His Majesty's Forces,
It but feebly represents
The sparkle of his genial fancy,
The depth of his calm sagacity,
The clearness of his spotless honour,
The flow of his boundless benevolence.
[/align]
[/INDENT]
I'm not sure why but I find it amusing on a number of levels.

I typed the above from a book called The Annals of Dublin Fair City by E E O'Donnell published in time for the millenium (the 1988 one!). I'd love to know more about Cosgrave's Illustrated Dictionary of Dublin. There's also a reference to it in John Finerty's 19th century coffeetable book - Ireland in Pictures. I couldn't resist buying a copy of the latter even though it's available in a digitised form on the web. But besides that neither google nor abebooks revealed anything above what sounds like a fascinating book.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby aj » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:38 am

wonder what happened to it?
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby phil » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:00 pm

According to a small footnote in Yvonne Whelan's Reinventing Modern Dublin it was removed in 1959. The reasons given are its poor condition at the time.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby GrahamH » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:14 pm

What a shame. Though it is of a design that lends itself to quite rapid deterioration; I'd imagine many of the 'lilies' came loose over time, and got clogged with dirt and general litter. It's such a bizarre monument, espcially with "a bust of Cramption nestle[ing] in its foliage" :)

And people though the Floozy was weird?!

Image

I wonder where it is now - surely (hopefully) someone wanted it as a bit of salvage...
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Devin » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:08 pm

Image

Image

Nos. 133 & 134 Pearse Street, opposite the Holiday Inn.

What is the fate of these two buildings?! They seem to be vacant. Every time I go past them they get slightly worse.

It’s very rare to find smaller-scaled post-Georgian buildings in almost completely original condition like this – original brickwork & pointing, roofs, chimney stacks, cast iron downpipes, sash windows with some old glass, panelled doors, simple but gorgeous timber Doric-columned doorcases & spoked fanlight, front steps & railings, even lime-plastered rubble-stone walls in the basement – very rare.

These pictures were taken about a year & a half ago. They’ve got slightly worse since then. I really worry about them. They’re not listed.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Peter Fitz » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:19 pm

how can they not be listed ! ?
the quaint little fan lights are lovely.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:39 pm

Aren't they just - most unusual. Apparently they date from 1848, which is just about possible. They look a bit earlier, but it's probable an older design continued to be used in the by-then unfashionable city centre.

To shed a bit of light on the current state of these properties, they went up for auction way back in 2002 with guide prices nothing short of a song: No. 133 was offered for the grand total of €400,000, while No. 134 was put up for €450,000. The larger double-fronted property to the right was offered for a meagre €700,000.

Image


The former pair in particular were in an appalling condition, hence the exceptionally low prices. Here you can see one of the stairwells, with ravishing 1960s wallpaper, hard-boarded balustrade, and salmon-painted lower walls.

Image
© The Sunday Times

And sure what better way to bring a cable in than through a smashed window pane?

Most original features appear to have survived intact, if you wish to include Bakelite light switches and door knobs :)

Image


At the time of their auction in 2002, the houses were offered for sale as separate entities, but it was thought likely that a developer would snap up all three given the attractive economies of restoring them as a group. I don't know if this happened, or indeed if the houses sold at all. Presumably they did. Perhaps they were snapped up as a nice little speculative investment, with the intention of flogging them later on much-inflated? Goodness knows they're worth a fortune now. Though I see in one of your pictures Devin that one of the doors is/was under restoration - a glimmer of life?

Image


They contain a number of original fireplaces and early Victorian plaster ceilings. Some of the other original features comprised bits and bobs of religious paraphernalia :)
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Devin » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:00 pm

The council had been asked in writing to list them about 3 years ago, but they weren't adding any more buildings to their RPS at the time as (they said) they didn't have the administration and they could only barely manage their existing RPS.

they date from 1848
Yeah, would've said they were 1840s. Even though the Georgian reign strictly ended in 1830, the houses are still Georgian in every way, just simplified. Fascinating!
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby PVC King » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:37 pm

The Irish Times

One of the last substantial sites in Dublin's south inner city looks set to be redeveloped as Trinity College prepares to embark on a joint venture with a private developer. The TCD Enterprise Centre covers almost five of the six acres between Macken Street, Pearse Street, Grand Canal Quay and the Dart line, and when redeveloped is likely to have well in excess of 92,903sq m (1 million sq ft) of academic research buildings, offices, retail facilities and apartments. Even before TCD has an opportunity to formally embark on the huge project, a half-acre site near the centre of the Enterprise Centre and fronting onto Grand Canal Harbour goes on the market today. Campion Property Consultants is seeking what it calls "a reasonable offer" for the extensive warehouse but has indicated that the owners, the Jordan family who for years supplied crockery to the hotel industry, will also consider a joint venture with "an experienced and asset-rich partner". An adjoining building owned by the Connaghton family is the only other property in the area not under the control of TCD. The businessman Denis O'Brien owns the Esat office block on the edge of the site fronting onto Grand Canal Quay. All sides agree that the city planners will probably insist on an overall development plan for the site of almost six acres rather than allow individual owners to decide what they want to develop.


This is good news for the area as the existing must rank as one of the most inapprpriate buildings for a prominent city site.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Hiivaladan » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:45 pm

jimg wrote: I'd love to know more about Cosgrave's Illustrated Dictionary of Dublin. There's also a reference to it in John Finerty's 19th century coffeetable book - Ireland in Pictures. I couldn't resist buying a copy of the latter even though it's available in a digitised form on the web. But besides that neither google nor abebooks revealed anything above what sounds like a fascinating book.

There are several copies of the book-unfortunately for reference only-in the 'Dublin and Irish Collection' in Pearse Street Public Library, only a stones through from the buildings being discussed.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby donal 0 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:10 pm

There is a very big hole in the ground where work has started on this development

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3293/06

Just wondering if anyone has any pics of how finished product is going to look?
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby notjim » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:47 pm

donal 0: clicking on the view documents tab on the link you provided leads you to some cg pictures
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby donal 0 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:06 pm

Thanks, I knew that but nothing happening there for me, its just a list of docs, nothing opens when they are clicked. Are they opening for others?
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby notjim » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:40 pm

click to highlight and then click the view button, at least that works for me
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby donal 0 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:02 pm

Twas me feckin pop-up blocker messin around, cheers
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby notjim » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:11 pm

What do you think of it: I approve of it in principle because I work at TCD and like the area to gather education related institutions. The building looks impressive to me, but I haven't the knack of judging from plans. It certainly makes the winter garden look like dross, which is what it is!
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby donal 0 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:37 pm

From a completely non-architectural expert point of view.... yeah I think it looks good, though it possibly looks a bit too bulky from the east, a bit like the academy further along does from the west. Maybe lopping a floor off the top would help?
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby notjim » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:48 pm

What was really annoying about the Academy, apart from the excessive bulk was, having made a nice job of the facade, they gave no attention at all to the other elevations, they did the pretend-anything-set-back-can-be-treated-as-invisible trick; this building seems better in this regard.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby GrahamH » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:43 pm

12/4/2008

The worst of all possible scenarios aside from wholescale demolition has come to pass in respect of the fomerly delightful pair of classical townhouses at No. 133 and No. 134 Pearse Street, as catalogued above this time last year.

The pictures below serve to demonstrate the disastrous consequences of an historic building not being protected.

2002

Image


2008

Image

These completely unique transitional style houses as built within the old city boundary have been utterly mauled.

Every single facet of their original fabric and detailing aside from the actual brick facade has been ripped out and replaced with ignorant, cumbersome and thoroughly offensive replicas.

The greatest crime of all has been the complete loss of the original charmingly diminutive doorcases, as recorded by Devin earlier.

Image
© Devin

Not even the simple spoked fanlights with original glass escaped the heavy hand of this 'luxury restoration',

Image


Shockingly, every part of these unique entrance doors has been replaced with a laughably clunky replica.

Image

A satirised Downing Street comes to Dublin, complete with raised and fielded 18th century panels.

Image

The columns appear to be cast from sections of painted Wavin pipe.

Meanwhile the windows, oh mercy the windows...

Image

The absence of glazing bars, the double glazing, the beading, the horns, the catches, the total loss of original frames and shimmering glass - mammy make it go away, please....

Bye bye original simple spoked railings, hello well - what exactly?

Image

High Victoriana crossed with a fire escape.

Bolted with a decorative flourish. Lovely touch.

Image


Meanwhile up on the roof, all of the orginal natural slating has been removed and replaced with synthethic muck.

Image

Indeed it would appear the roof structure hasn't even been investigated, while the chimneys continue to rot as ever. Also as can be seen, the brickwork has been brashly repointed, although al least it's lime mortar.

I simply dread to think what has happened inside. not least as it was proposed initially to significantly extend the rear, plonk a mansard roof on top, and squeeze six apartments onto the site, before being refused by DCC on grounds of over-development, lack of open space and non-compliance with minimum apartment sizes. Critically, there's absolutely no reference online to any of these recent works acquiring planning permission.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby GrahamH » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:50 pm

There is now not a single one of these houses left in its original condition on Pearse Street. You have to round the corner onto Sandwith Street to find just one of these little gems straggling on out of two full terraces.

Image

How long before this too succumbs to developer treatment?

What a loss.

Image
© Devin
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Peter Fitz » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:49 am

What a hatchet job. Sadly, i think you're correct Graham, they have actually used what are, lets call a spade a spade, shite pipes for pillars. No doubt the interior is destroyed with the same level of malignant disrespect.

So dare I say, who owns no.s 133 & 134 Pearse Street ? who is responsible ? For all the good you do DCC, you are so heavily undermined by allowing this blatant destruction.

The little fella around the corner is lovely, i hope it survives.

Image

Thanks as usual for posting Graham. (that fiesta has no chance of getting outta there;))
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby d_d_dallas » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:17 pm

Graham, 10 out of 10 on the doors... yes actual lurid orange plastic wavin pipes! While under construction I used walk past agog at the sight
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Andrew Duffy » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:14 pm

Adding insult to injury, the windows are top-hung. This butchering has been a source of horrific entertainment to me on the bus into the city centre every weekend for the last few months. I think I missed the construction of the sewage pipe doorcases though.
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby malec » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:28 pm

GrahamH wrote:the double glazing,

What are the people inside supposed to do, freeze?
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Re: pearse street developments

Postby Peter Fitz » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:33 pm

malec wrote:What are the people inside supposed to do, freeze?


Good sash windows with shutters can be just as efficient as double glaze ... never mind the fact that double glaze in period structures often causes moisture build & damp - older buildings need to breath.
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