'Dutch Billys'

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:03 am

tommyt wrote:aren't we forgetting the pastiche apartments around back lane/cornmarket and the single building at 18 lwr leeson st that seems a bit bizarre-I have never ascertained if it is meant to be a replica of an original building on site or a folly? The only extant gable fronted buildings in D2 I can think of off the top of my head are on Molesworth st and Ely Place


Those two on Molesworth St. are original curvilinear gabled house that were masked, probably in late 18th century, with a flat parapet, and then subsequently had a bit of a gabled pedement top put back on. I have a lot of stuff on Molesworth St. I'll post up when I get a chance.

There was an intact gabled house on Leeson St. up to about 1980. It was masked as a flat parapet, but in a way that you could still see the outline of the curvilinear gable, but it was down further towards Stephens Green than the present pastiche structure. It's hard to know what the planning rational was for the new structure, same as with the Cornmarket scheme.

I couldn't find the Rocque's map sheet that covers the south west city but I scanned up a copy from the St. Lukes conservation report that shows Newmarket in all it's glory and I stuck a red box around no. 10 Mill St. (which was never quite as off-axis at it looked here) and the corner house (now a pub) on Newmarket / Brabazon Place.

Image
As narrow as Mill Lane was, it was still fronted by houses the whole way down to Mill Street.

Image
A pair of Dutch Billys on Newmarket, after the roof had been trimmed down to a hip at the front and the gables trimmed to the profile of the roof.

Image
The importance of this structure is hard to exagerate. Newmarket Square was slightly smaller than Smithfield but, whereas
Smithfield appears to have been mostly three storey, Newmarket was probably all four storey and coming east from triangular
gabled Chamber Street, it must have been stunning.

Image
On both elevations the blocked up second floor windows (identifal size and spacing to the first floor) can just be made out behind the render, meaning that all this house is actually missing is the gabled top storey.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:40 am

User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby ctesiphon » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:16 am

I always suspected there was something more going on with Gray's of Newmarket- thanks for the info.

Isn't it shut at the moment? The last few times I've passed it's been boarded up, possibly dating from the shooting there a couple of years (?) ago. A cause for concern?

Your b&w photo reminds me of this old Lawrence one that I'm quite fond of- I used to live around the corner.

(From the NLI collection.)
Attachments
Blackpitts NLI-NPA lroy7886.jpg
Blackpitts NLI-NPA lroy7886.jpg (58.75 KiB) Viewed 7239 times
User avatar
ctesiphon
Old Master
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:39 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby tommyt » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:55 am

There were AFAIK two on Longford st. right up to the 1980s-they feature in a neville Johnson picture book or some other Dublin street scenes photo collection I have seen before
tommyt
Member
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:39 pm
Location: D5

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby johnglas » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:22 pm

gunter (or should it be Sherlock Holmes?): good bit of sleuthing there. I find the 'pastiche' argument perplexing - this pub is a clear case for restoration to show what a DB would have looked like in this location (Dublin Civic Trust interested?). There is enough left to avoid the charge of Disneyfication. Come to that, Newmarket (great space waiting to be reborn) could be developed with tall, gabled bldgs not apeing some old style but getting inspiration from them, i.e a square of tall, gabled, narrow-plotted contemporary buildings recapturing the spirit of the place. Or is that too much of a challenge and we prefer a 'mixed-use', bigfoot slab with a few quirky ('cutting edge') details?
johnglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby Devin » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:28 pm

Good stuff on Gray’s, gunter. There may be more remains of these houses around than we think.

A common alteration to cruciform-roofed gabled houses seems to have been where the front gable was gived a hip and a flat parapet.




Image

So what was originally this




Image

... sometimes became this




Image

… then maybe also the whole façade was given later-Georgian proportions, as seen here at No 30 Thomas Street (centre building).
Devin
Old Master
 
Posts: 1509
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:27 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:35 pm

Devin:
I completely forgot about those three houses on Haymarket. Weren't they knocked for some appalling extension to Tully's Tiles? without a wimper! Wasn't there even some Emmet connection to one of them, or was that the Georgian on the Green beside the College of Surgeons? You're absolutely right that a lot of these houses still exist behind altered or rebuilt facades, the whole of the east side of South Fredrick Street, seen from the Kilkenny Design block, (with I think only one exception), is cruciform roofed, former gable fronted, houses with panelled interiors.

In most cases, the Georgian rebuilding of the facade, or the masking of the gable, is now an integral part of the story of the house, and you wouldn't attempt to reverse back to the original design, but in a few cases, like 10 Mill St. or Gray's of Newmarket, the case for a scholarly restoration has to be a very strong one.

In the case of Mill Street, neither version of the house now has a roof, so conservation will involve reconstruction, either way. The 1890s alterations were a pretty wilful act of mutilation on a wonderful, (by then nearly 200 year old), house, and to invest one cent in re-enacting this mutilation would be pretty hard to take when we're dealing with a 'last of it's kind' scenario.

I think the significance of Grays is that it represents a last chance to restore the one remaining house out of the 64 that lined the edges of this wonderful, European scale, 17th century urban space. I don't know if there's any immediate threat to Gray's, but I wouldn't like to bet against it. Maybe DCC are already on top of this, you'd like to think they would be, but, every time I go down there, like you, I half expect to see a pile of rubble.

I agree a disturbing 100% with johnglas, that what Newmarket needs urgently is a new vision with a comprehensive set of guidlines that would encourage the redevelopment of the remaining properties on the square in a way that respects the original plot widths and the scale of the original buildings with some tasty new in-fill.

Surely it's not too late to rescue Newmarket with some creative contemporary interventions, and with a restored Gray's in the mix, giving it, what Smithfield has lost, a tangible link to it's original appearance, we could have a valuable, and largely forgotten, urban space restored to Dublin's consciousness, and not just another anonymous mix and match apartmentscape.

Image
Existing view looking west on Newmarket towards Chamber Street. The stone warehouses on the right form the west corner of Brabazon Place, opposite Gray's on the east corner. The warehouses are derelict and look to be prep'd for re-development. They are 19th century replacements of the original gabled houses, but they are part of the story of the space and should be retained and worked into the redevelopment rather than bulldozed and forgotten.

Image
The redeveloped east end of Newmarket, with Ward's Hill off to the right.

Whatever about the quality of the Zoe scheme at the east end of Newmarket, it does at least reflect the original scale of of the houses which were long gone by the time this apartment scheme was built in the early 90s. The most recent apartment block is the one on the left which rather crowds out the remains of St. Luke's church behind and seems to muscles it's way onto the square without a lot of obvious sensitivity to the historical context.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:43 pm

johnglas wrote: Come to that, Newmarket (great space waiting to be reborn) could be developed with tall, gabled bldgs not apeing some old style but getting inspiration from them, i.e a square of tall, gabled, narrow-plotted contemporary buildings recapturing the spirit of the place. Or is that too much of a challenge and we prefer a 'mixed-use', bigfoot slab with a few quirky ('cutting edge') details?


This level of agreement can't last, but, while we're at it, here's a photograph of some modern gabled in-fill from Bremen that impressed me enough to get the camera out.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think it illustrates your point.

Image

The plaque on the wall records what this little square was like before the war.

There are times that I think we might have been better off if we had been bombed to dust on a single night, rather than suffer the slow grinding destruction of neglect over decades. At least then we might have had to take a long hard look at the city and we might have noticed that bits were missing and, just maybe, a bit of thought might have gone into putting that right.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby johnglas » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:54 pm

gunter: I'm disturbed you're disturbed, but I'll try and keep up the good work! The Bremer Wohnungen are just fabulous - but do you see any Brit/Irish architect having the balls? Maybe that's post-postmodern historical/contextual - no, that's too hard isn't it?
johnglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:34 am

I'm not touching that.

Here's that photograph of the door of no. 10 Mill Street. It was published in 'The Heart of Dublin', by Peter Pearson in 2000. A very good book, a great source for research on the city, and a real tear-jerker.

Image
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:36 am

Zap wrote:Thanks a lot Seerski.

I was suspicious of the Leeson St. one - its looked like too good of an example but does look well regardless.


I can't find any photographs of the last surviving 'Dutch Billy' on Leeson St., but I found a drawing that shows it and a few of it's neighbours, including the outline of a cruciform roofed house, shortly before demolition in 1981.

Also, I want to post up the front page of a pamphlet that protested about the demolition at the time and included a photograph of the panelled interior. I'm not sure if the scanned text is of readably quality (doesn't look like it to me), but if people are interested in it, I could try it again bigger and scan up the other 4 pages, which cover more on the house and other planning issues, including why Dublin should have a light rail system!

It's not that a lot of people weren't making sense back then, it's just that nobody in control was listening.

Image
Also an old drawing of a 'Dutch Billy' and a triangular gabled neighbour behind the fountain in James's St.

Image
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby johnglas » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:54 am

Great drawing - it reflects one of my earliest conscious memories of Dublin, when I noticed an area south of St Stephen's Green with row after row of derelict 'Georgian' houses, obviously waiting quietly for the bulldozer. In 1981, I was still a planner (I would stop doing that two years later) and had taken a complete scunner to the amount of destruction going on (Glasgow was a bombsite - like Dublin, it was scarcely bombed during the war, all the damage was home-grown).
So, however disturbing, I'm going to continue speaking out against bad development, no matter what 'the establishment' may think - have you seen how deadly dull most of the projects in this month's AI are? Apart from the Killiney house (and that's an exercise in over-salaried self-indulgence), the corporate stuff is worthy but unexciting. A whole town-full of that stuff would send us all to sleep.
johnglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby aj » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:05 pm

as much as it breaks my heart its clear we havent learnt from the mistakes made in the not too distant past. I have a real fear that the remianing areas of the cities with sizable concentrations of historic building are simply being left to rot.

The state of thomas street and the Northern gerogian quarter is a disgrace . The intentional dereliction that developers are permitted to get away with is a joke. Its time we take stock of what we have left and protect it.
aj
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby johnglas » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:18 pm

aj: I've long thought that Dublin needs to define the city as the area within the canals and then adopt a strong policy with a presumption against demolition and for conservation. Your City Fathers (and Mothers) could do worse than have a trip to Edinburgh; it has its faults (oh, yes!) and can be very grey on a grey day, but it has a strong image of itself and takes no prisoners when it comes to conservation. The idea that 'site accumulation'/demolition/rebuild/we-need -to-develop-the-whole-block-in-a-trendy-style equates with progress is just junk. It equates with making a fast buck and destroying the city's patrimony, and too many architects seem prepared to go along with it.
johnglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:35 pm

nono wrote:there's a rather fine example at the top of manor st. but like most it has a parapet at the top, the original roof is still clearly visible, and a rather peculiar tower at the rear!


That big house on Manor Street is a gem, but I would be 95% certain it was never a 'Dutch Billy'. It's in the same tradition, but I think it's a transitional house using many of the features and building techniques of the gabled tradition, but with the new flat parapet from the start.

Almost every other house in Dublin with a pair of apex roofs was a twin 'Dutch Billy' (Bachelors Walk, James's St. etc.), you simply didn't go to the bother of constructing two roofs unless it was to exploit the potential for a pair of gables, but the Manor St. house is hipped front and back and has, what appears to be, an original moulded granite coping to the parapet, which is quite rare.

The orange brickwork around many of the windows could be considered an original feature in London, but here, it's definitely a repair.

The scale of the windows on the second floor is inexplicable, you'd need to have a good rummage around the inside to begin to explain these. The building is a creche, so if anyone has a small kid . . .

Image

Image

Image
This is the nearest London equivalent that I know of, Dr. Johnston's house of circa. 1700. If this house was in Dublin, there is no question it would have had twin Dutch gables, like 10 Mill St., but there is no evidence that this was the case in London
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby hutton » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:41 am

This is an excellent thread gunter, keep it up :)

Not sure if Id necessarily agree with you about poor ol Luke Gardiner, but I certainly do think you have made a very worthwhile case as to the need to document and debate the Billys.

gunter wrote:That big house on Manor Street is a gem, but I would be 95% certain it was never a 'Dutch Billy'.

Image


I beg to differ - looking at that snap, it appears to me that the top two corners are of red brick, wheras the mass of the building is in brown brick, with a definate Billy outline as best seen by the gentle curves in the top left corner.



aj wrote:as much as it breaks my heart its clear we havent learnt from the mistakes made in the not too distant past. I have a real fear that the remianing areas of the cities with sizable concentrations of historic building are simply being left to rot.

The state of thomas street and the Northern gerogian quarter is a disgrace . The intentional dereliction that developers are permitted to get away with is a joke. Its time we take stock of what we have left and protect it.


Aj I 100% agree with you. The topic of Derelict Dublin may well merit a thread on its own. In the meantime, what are the primary reasons for dereliction in Dublin - is it the failure of the Derelict Sites Act to have worked, or the failure of the Living Over The Shop scheme, or the cuts/ under-resourcing of heritage protection?
hutton
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: NAMA HQ

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:56 am

hutton:

I want this to be a 'Billy', I just don't think it is. I think that newer brickwork is just a repair.

On the elevation, as I see it, there's no real reason to see the top floor windows as anything but original. If it was a twin gabled house, I think the top floor would have reduced down to two windows and they would have moved them in to more closely line up with the apexes of the roofs. As well as that, in the gabled tradition, it was the practice for all windows to be of the same size no matter which floor they were on, the composition of the 'Dutch Billy' relied, very successfully, on the variety and rhythm of the gables. Once you leave the gabled tradition, the smaller top floor windows come in and, shortly after that, the full Georgian graded window heights according to the varied ceiling heights reflecting the importance of the rooms by floor which, I admit, was a nice little refinement if they hadn't gone on for the next 100 years and flogged it to death.

For me, the matching front and back hip profiles to the roofs and the parapet details on the Manor Street house are the clincher. If this was an early make-over, would they have gone to the bother of hipping the roofs at the back as well? and sticking in a full flat parapet at the back? This didn't happen to any other 'Dutch Billy' that I know of.

On your pal, Luke Gardiner, here's a way you can get him off the hook:

They give a date of 1728 for Henrietta Street, which is the same date thats been given for Molesworth Street for example. This is the stark contrast that I see and the reason that the glowing legacy of Luke Gardiner need a radical revision. Molesworth Street is fully gabled, socially mixed (includes tripple gabled Lisle House) and it responsibly in-fills obvious development land between Stephen's Green (a City enterprise) and Trinity College. Henrietta Street (the Luke Gardiner venture) is an exclusive up-market cul-de-sac of London type houses off an arterial route, with no attempt to integrate into the existing street or development pattern.

If it could be established, for example, that this Manor Street house was originally flat parapeted, and if it could be dated to before 1728, then I'd have lay off on Gardiner on that front anyway, and just concentrate on giving him a good kicking on the 'shifting the city off it's access' point, and the 'one house design fits all' point.

Best of luck with that.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:49 pm

Great thread.

Molesworth Street was such a criminal loss to the city. As Freddie O'Dwyer noted in Lost Dublin: "Of the twenty-three Georgian houses on the north side, only four survive, two on each side of Edward Holmes' Masonic Hall of 1868. The pair to the west, Nos 15 and 16, built by Benjamin Rudd, carpenter, have idential plans and were originally brick-fronted and gabled. The gable of No. 15 which was added in late Victorian times and was dated 1755 belies the origins of the house which Rudd sold to one Edward Deane of Terenure in 1740."

This is them today, both with stunning panelled interiors. The rust colour has always been a delight.

Image


One building I'm not sure about being a Dutch Billy is No. 32 directly across the road, prior to its bizarre Victorian - and probably later again - remodelling.

Image

A picture of the building, possibly from the late 18th century, shows it as having a flat parapet and small window opes precisely matching those of the upper two floors.

Yet this house apparently dates from c. 1725, and fascinatingly a single wall of panelling survives with cornice to part of the entrance hall, in spite of the wholescale 19th century alterations, let alone the modern office interventions. Also as you move up the staircase which is late 18th century, you suddenly encounter a startling remnant of early Georgian Dublin in the form of a single stretch of barley-sugared balustrading with Corinthian newel posts! Thankfully some good old-fashioned Georgian penny-pinching dictated its survival high up in the house.

And as to the evidence of Dutch Billy, and a large one at that, surely such a fenestration pattern to the rear is suggesting something?

Image

(I thought the pink rather eye-catching).

A house of this scale would not be out of place adjoining the tripartite gabled home of Speaker Foster that was once located right next door,
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:26 pm

GrahamH wrote:Great thread.

One building I'm not sure about being a Dutch Billy is No. 32 directly across the road, prior to its bizarre Victorian - and probably later again - remodelling.

A picture of the building, possibly from the late 18th century, shows it as having a flat parapet and small window opes precisely matching those of the upper two floors.

Yet this house apparently dates from c. 1725,

And as to the evidence of Dutch Billy, and a large one at that, surely such a fenestration pattern to the rear is suggesting something?

A house of this scale would not be out of place adjoining the tripartite gabled home of Speaker Foster that was once located right next door,


Graham:

I think you're spot on there on no. 32. I'm not familiar with the late 18th century print that you mentioned though, (unless it's this one from 'Lost Dublin') and I hadn't realized there were so many bits of the original structure left inside.

Freddy O'Dwyer had speculated that Speker Foster's house was 'something of a hybrid, with gables on top of the parapet' and that it was to the left of the building in your photograph, no 32 (where 29, 30 & 31 are now), having been knocked and 'replaced before 1821' But actually Speker Foster's triple gabled house was 'Lisle House' at 33 Molesworth Street, and it's still there, the big five bay house to the right of your no. 32. So the yellow rendered house that you've shown and the five bay brick 'Georgian' to the right are the two gabled houses shown in Penny Journal print reproduced in Freddy's book.

Image
Image
Image

There are photographs from the early 1970s that show the original three perpendicular roofs to no. 33, that originally lined up with the three gables, peeping up behind the later Geoprgian parapet.

The shameful gutting and removal of the roofs from no. 33 took place as recently as 1974, under the direction of a firm of architects who are still prominent in the city. The recent planning application (reg. no. 2775/07) by Benson & Forsyth to build a large office blook to the rear and further alter the two houses, totally underplayed the importance of the two houses.

Image

The planning application was refused by DCC following some withering comments by the conservation officer, the brilliant Clare Hogan again (she of the savage attack on the Clarance Hotel proposal, which unfortunately wasn't listened to). I particularly liked her put down of the prestigeous Benson & Forsyth: 'The National Gallery extension is not considered an acceptable precedent as it . . . is a major public institution' and implied, this is an office block!

If only someone had pointed this out to our 'DARE TO BE THE BLOODY SAME' friends out on the Merrion Road.

Possibly the cruelist irony for the great 'Dutch Billy' that was no. 33 is that when it's main staircase was ripped out in 1974, it was given a new home in 13 Henrietta Street!

I don't know if great staircases have souls, but this must be like taking a lifelong Everton fan and burying him in a Liverpool jersey.

For the record, I very muched liked the Benson & Forsyth plan, except for the further alterations to the two houses, and I would be far more in favour of stuff like this, densifying up under-used sites in the city centre, than the random depositing of 'urban' centres on distant suburban and green field sites.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby aj » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:04 pm

I am in number 33 every fews days and there is very little orginal features left. the entrance hall retains some panelling and plaster work thats it
aj
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby gunter » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:19 pm

Do any of the internal walls survive, or is it all open plan offices? What about the basement?
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby Devin » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:08 pm

They appealed that Molesworth St refusal, but then withdrew. Revised proposal is awaited.

Feel free to return to Molesworth Street after this post!!


gunter wrote:completely forgot about those three houses on Haymarket. Weren't they knocked for some appalling extension to Tully's Tiles?
I don't remember them myself]Image
Existing view looking west on Newmarket towards Chamber Street. The stone warehouses on the right form the west corner of Brabazon Place, opposite Gray's on the east corner. The warehouses are derelict and look to be prep'd for re-development. They are 19th century replacements of the original gabled houses, but they are part of the story of the space and should be retained and worked into the redevelopment rather than bulldozed and forgotten.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the stone warehouse on the corner ('the potato market') is a protected structure and is being incorporated within approved Ref. 5410/04 (the other semi-demolished one beyond it is not protected & is not being kept), for a big scheme also including repair of the fine Georgian Brewer's house round the corner, 10 Ardee Street – Image: http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8113/sheehanimages8fe.png Although this scheme was approved 3 years ago, there's no sign of anyting starting.

If McCullough Mulvin have their way Newmarket will look quite different in the future (go to 'view all projects' and 'masterplanning'): http://www.mcculloughmulvin.com/pages/moviepg.html




Image

The early-18th century gabled house on Montpelier Hill deserves an appearance in the thread.
Devin
Old Master
 
Posts: 1509
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:27 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby johnglas » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:14 pm

Reluctant as an alien (!) to intrude on this debate, but doesn't the side of M'worth St opposite the Freemasons' Hall (what an Aladdin's Cave that is!) provide somrthing of a template for when the 80s (?) bland monstrosity at no. 14 is eventually knocked?
The newbuild B+S scheme looks very good and looks as though it would provide an internal court/garden to the rear of nos. 32 and 33, which they should leave well alone or, shock-horror, restore as part of a pro bono gesture. (What's that? says the company accountant.)
johnglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby Zap » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:00 am

What is up with all of the images not working (apart from the old Blackpitts)?
Zap
Member
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: Madrid, España

Re: 'Dutch Billys'

Postby johnglas » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:16 am

Is the black and white building to the left of the Newmarket image Art Deco? Also, what is the interesting-looking tower peaking up above the awful utilitarian lamppost?
johnglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland



cron