New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby notjim » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:00 am

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0212/1202509701081.html

New public transport bridge over Liffey agreed

Olivia Kelly

Dublin City Council plans to build a new Luas and public transport bridge across the river Liffey from Marlborough Street to Hawkins Street, even though the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) has yet to determine the route of the proposed Luas line.

The current city development plan allows for the construction of a footbridge at the site. South-east area councillors yesterday approved a council management proposal to seek a change to the development plan to allow the construction of the new bridge from Eden Quay to Burgh Quay.

The council is proposing to build a bridge to accommodate a southbound Luas line as well as two bus lanes, two cycle lanes and two footpaths, and hopes soon to seek tenders for its design. The council said it was seeking a "low-key design" to fit in with the surrounding architecture.

However, while the council is pressing ahead with its plans for the bridge, the RPA has yet to say whether this will be the route for the new Luas BX line, which will connect the Red and Green Luas lines across the city centre.

The RPA last year did identify its preferred option as a line from St Stephen's Green to College Green, down Westmoreland Street and across O'Connell Bridge, down O'Connell Street and back up Marlborough Street to cross a new bridge; however, it has not confirmed this as the route.

The council said even if the bridge was not chosen for the Luas route, it would build it anyway.

The bridge would ultimately be for public transport; however, councillors were told yesterday that the bridge would serve to ease the inevitable gridlock in the centre when metro and Luas works begin across O'Connell Bridge. During this construction, Westmoreland Street is likely to be closed and the new bridge would temporarily be permitted to carry cross-town traffic.

The proposal will now go before the full council for ratification.
© 2008 The Irish Times
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby missarchi » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:45 am

Sneaky moves again....

So Dublin City Council is building a bridge for the RPA and Dublin Bus what a nice present...
And there is a big chunck of land nearby as well...
Build a bridge for me and I'll get over it...

If the bridge was just for pedestrians I might understand by not really... 2 x bus

What is Duff going to do?

The council and RPA Dublin Bus should face up to the fact that O'Connell st bridge may be the best option
(with no buses) even if it will end in tears...

Low key design... whatever that means if they made it look like it had been there for 200 years but it has not been
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:00 am

What are the odds notjim, same article posted by myself & yourself at exactly 12.00am :D

As I threw in my opinion on this on the luas central thread, i may as well here too ;)

"The council is proposing to build a bridge to accommodate a southbound Luas line as well as two bus lanes, two cycle lanes and two footpaths, and hopes soon to seek tenders for its design. The council said it was seeking a "low-key design" to fit in with the surrounding architecture."

You'd want to make it feckin invisible lads. What kind of width are they talking here ? I'd just about accept a slender little job to facilitate luas (in a trade off to confine the damn thing to marlborough st. - even that presents serious design challenges) but this yoke sounds like its set to challenge O'Connell Bridge itself, essentially 4-5 lanes wide.

The lovely rhythm & flow of the liffey's bridges, fairly evenly spaced it has to be said (until now) is to be well & truly botched up.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby notjim » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:05 am

Yes: funny, I have this sad image of the the two of us sitting by our computers waiting for the Times to be posted so we could race to put any relevant information on archiseek, we are probably the longest established posters with less than 1000 posts, so obviously we are both whoring for posting opportunities. I was in two minds as to whether this should go on the Luas thread where you put it, or on its own.

It seems crazy to me to build the bridge and not put both Luas tracks around the back of College and up Marlboro street: it seems something has to be lost, we loose the rhythm of the bridges you refer to, we have wires on college green, we dig up O'Connell street and fill it with wires, we duplicate the metro route and don't gain a connection to Pearse. The crazy thing is we seem to have a plan now that includes all these negatives.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:11 pm

ah sure we're all about the quality not the quantity notjim hey :D

It does warrant a new thread alright & you've rolled the very long list of negatives nicely in to one.

notjim wrote:It seems crazy to me to build the bridge and not put both Luas tracks around the back of College and up Marlboro street: it seems something has to be lost, we loose the rhythm of the bridges you refer to, we have wires on college green, we dig up O'Connell street and fill it with wires, we duplicate the metro route and don't gain a connection to Pearse. The crazy thing is we seem to have a plan now that includes all these negatives.


Hard to fathom the reasoning behind this one, DCC & RPA need their collective heads knocked, no make that smashed, together.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby hutton » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:23 pm

Whats the status on the Macken St bridge, which was due to be up when again?

As per usual, one would not want to be relying on any critical analysis in Irish Times coverage of Dublin matters anymore - that paper has really gone to pot, and these days only seems to be a mouthpiece for DCC guff.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby notjim » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:30 pm

Well they are at least working on Macken St (Beckett) bridge at the moment, you can see it from the O'Casey bridge. Joyce/O'Casey/Beckett: what will they call this new bridge?
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby Rusty Cogs » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:18 pm

I don't claim to know anything about bridge construction but with a view of proceedings they seem to be moving at a snails pace.

Our old paper of reocord the Irish Times had an article in July '07 stating that it would be completed in 18 months.

Go on to the DDDA website and its due for completion in 2008 and 2009

http://www.ddda.ie/index.jsp?nID=297&pID=218

Do I hear 2010 ? anyone anyone ?
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby StephenC » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:56 pm

I thought that looking at it recently (as I took the fab little liffey ferry over to Spencer Dock) but when you remember that the bridge will pivot on an off centre foundation and then span across to North Wall Quay then you can see that progress is being made. I imagine that once these elements are complete the superstructure, which will be pre-assessembled, will be fitted into place. I think early next year is quite reasonable.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby hutton » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:04 pm

notjim wrote:what will they call this new bridge?


For southsiders, it will of course be called "The Bridge To God Knows Where" :p

Thats good to hear about progress being made with the Guild St Bridge - I say Guild St, because it really is Guild St that it links to, whereas Macken St is a street away! :)
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby Alek Smart » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:12 pm

Calm down childer...quiet at the back there !! :mad:

The real issue is buried here.......

" The bridge would ultimately be for public transport; however, councillors were told yesterday that the bridge would serve to ease the inevitable gridlock in the centre when metro and Luas works begin across O'Connell Bridge. During this construction, Westmoreland Street is likely to be closed and the new bridge would temporarily be permitted to carry cross-town traffic."

Just wait and see how Dublin City Councils definition of the words "Ineviatable" and "Temporarily" now assume new and important places in the English language... :)
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby fergalr » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:31 pm

...A Dublin Bus bridge. Their conquest of the city continues unabated. So public transport, LUAS etc.. how big is this bridge going to be? I mean, you could throw a ball at it from O'Connell Bridge. It'll be so close. It would suit me to have a pedestrian bridge there, and a narrow structure taking a LUAS line and walkers might be acceptable, but a column of yellow monsters plying their trade on an hourly basis across what will become an eyesore? No thanks.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby GrahamH » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:28 pm

Precisely. Even a delicate Millenium Bridge structure is pushing it, let alone what will be approaching the second-widest bridge in the city sited in its shortest stretch.

All the arguments have been well-rehearsed on the other thread, so nothing theres more really to add other than that public transport planning in this city is being driven almost exclusively by prosaic concerns of practicality. It's entirely a numbers game, with lines on a map, and zero consideration for views and vistas, heritage and the wider urban environment. Fancy schmancy chromed shelters and tracts of 'quality' Chinese granite does not compensate for an incoherent and ill-considered public realm. The egregious comments made by an RPA rep to me at one of the consultations "but look we've lots of trees along here, to keep your type happy" merely confirmed what I already knew.

Plough the lines through and chuck em a few cobbles and shrubs is pretty much the policy.

Indcidentally this bridge structure will have to be of some height to match the levels of neighbouring quays. Not nearly as unobtrusive as the reticent Butt Bridge beyond.

A rather sultry view of the 'trapped pool' as currently exists.

Image
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:59 pm

So does this bridge make a nonsense of the (now granted, because the sole appeal was withdrawn) Strand Street bus interchange, or does the bus interchange make a nonsense of this bridge proposal?

Surely someone has thought of that, right? Someone? Anyone?

Tell the cross town private car traffic to f*ck off and give the city back to the pedestrians and cyclists. Then we'll know you mean business, DCC.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:37 pm

ctesiphon wrote:So does this bridge make a nonsense of the (now granted, because the sole appeal was withdrawn) Strand Street bus interchange, or does the bus interchange make a nonsense of this bridge proposal?


nope cte, this bridge makes no sense all by itself.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby d_d_dallas » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:33 pm

Ah Eden Qy boardwalk... we hardly knew you
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby johnglas » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:42 pm

I'm surprised that you guys are surprised that road (sorry, traffic) engineers have had an aesthetics by-pass; they are essentially demented as a class and would not know townscape if it bit them in the region where their head usually is !
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby hutton » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:58 pm

d_d_dallas wrote:Ah Eden Qy boardwalk... we hardly knew you


LOL

Shit, where am I going to score my smack now?

GrahamH wrote:The egregious comments made by an RPA rep to me at one of the consultations "but look we've lots of trees along here, to keep your type happy" merely confirmed what I already knew.


Isnt it great to think that these feckers are paid at tax-payers expense, and now they throw in the insults free of charge, and of course Graham your type will now be unhappy that this was pointed out to you :p

johnglas wrote:I'm surprised that you guys are surprised that road (sorry, traffic) engineers have had an aesthetics by-pass; they are essentially demented as a class and would not know townscape if it bit them in the region where their head usually is !


Nail, hammer, head. If you want to see what these types are capable of, examine the unnecessary poles, barriers, and other metal junk and clutter along the Luas line - particularly at the rear of the Fourcourts. Oh, but they do have cobbles between the tracks. Useless wasteful wankers :rolleyes:
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby missarchi » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:45 pm

http://www.dublincity.ie/your_council/councillors/

YOU CAN NOW WATCH THE DESTRUCTION OF DUBLIN LIVE

http://www.dublincity.public-i.tv/site/:confused:

If any one whats to use any of the images you can...

( I think the BX could stop just before Nassau street )
( I also think the luas going in front of trinity college is bad so it should start again in westmoreland st or dolier)
( But for this to work any metro ticket/luas ticket should include 3 extra stops free so you can jump rather than have to by two tickets)
( free city circle luas in Dublin what are the odds of that ? )
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby igy » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:08 pm

I can't help but notice that image only shows the northbound route...
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby JuliusCaesar » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:35 pm

i believe St Anne's on Dawson St is campaigning against having the Luas on Dawson St & is proposing that it should run down Merrion Square instead. The tinkling of the Luas would interfere with the church music.
Anyway, as to bridges, why don't they just pave over the Liffey - that damn river is just in the way!
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby fergalr » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:57 am

lol, Mussolini toyed with that idea for Venice. Not that I'd advocate emulating IL DUCE but he did get the trains to run on time, whereas we can't even get the bloody rails built.
<sigh> This bridge is going to be colossal and absurdly close to O'Connell Bridge. It seems the only NIMBYs with clout are in Dublin 4. Could they not just widen Butt bridge and the Matt Talbot bridge or something?
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby joanlemmon » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:06 am

JuliusCaesar wrote:i believe St Anne's on Dawson St is campaigning against having the Luas on Dawson St & is proposing that it should run down Merrion Square instead. The tinkling of the Luas would interfere with the church music.
Anyway, as to bridges, why don't they just pave over the Liffey - that damn river is just in the way!


So St Annes wants to send the sardine tins on a magical mystery tour of Dublin.........a better idea would be to relocate their tedious madrigals to Helmand provence where they could concentrate on other things.
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby Rory W » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:09 pm

JuliusCaesar wrote:i believe St Anne's on Dawson St is campaigning against having the Luas on Dawson St & is proposing that it should run down Merrion Square instead. The tinkling of the Luas would interfere with the church music.


Stupid fuckers - all those 46a buses are so quiet compared to the Luas - NIMBY-ism at its worst
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Re: New Liffey Bridge: Marlborough St to Hawkin's St

Postby fergalr » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:25 pm

I think they're most concerned about having the road outside the entrance to their church being dug up for months upon months. It's not an insane concern, seeing as Dawson St is now one of the few roads from Donnybrook direction that leads to College Green...via the bottleknecks around Trinity,,
Actually, what sort of nonsense city centre do we have? There's not one bloody wide street, apart from the two big Georgian Squares!
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