Cork Transport

Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:51 am

now that is the €38,000 payrise question - when the leader of a country sends an aide de camp as his representative to Katy Frenchs funeral while Cork airport has been told by the DAA to accept the debt on the airport despite FF promise that the airport would be debt free, you know the quality of politician the country has
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby PTB » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:59 am

We have really shite politicians in Cork. I remember Ned O'Keefe up in arms that he hadn't been informed that a new super prision was to be built in Kilworth

'How dare they suild such a monsterous building in the area without consulting me or the people of the area? Why wasn't I consulted? I'd rather have a windfarm in the area'

5 days later:

'I've looked at the situation and I can see that this is a good thing for the area. The jobs created will be greatly beneficial to the local community'

Campaign leaflet before election.
' Ned O'Keefe brings 150 jobs to the Avondhu region. 500 jobs to be created in the construction of the prision.'

Tit.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:49 am

The deal CCC secured with Owen O’Callaghan to sell Navigation House to the developer for 9.2 million euro plus free all day parking for 120 council staff for the next 999 years (worth 6 million) does not inspire confidence in Corks public transport system.
The rest of us can use the crap public transport while the VIP council staff that are responsible for the transport mess get free secure parking for the next 999 years.
:oWill 999 years be enough time for these Muppets to sort the mess out?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Saucy Jack » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:21 am

kite wrote:The deal CCC secured with Owen O’Callaghan to sell Navigation House to the developer for 9.2 million euro plus free all day parking for 120 council staff for the next 999 years (worth 6 million) does not inspire confidence in Corks public transport system.
The rest of us can use the crap public transport while the VIP council staff that are responsible for the transport mess get free secure parking for the next 999 years.
:oWill 999 years be enough time for these Muppets to sort the mess out?


Is that the same 6 million that Owen had to forfeit for not building the convention centre at Mahon Point ?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:07 pm

Saucy Jack wrote:Is that the same 6 million that Owen had to forfeit for not building the convention centre at Mahon Point ?


No, the 10.4 acres of land that the City Council could have had a convention centre build on at the expense of OCP and handed over to the city at a cost not exceeding one pound as part of the deal signed 10 years ago is now to receive a 300 million investment from OCP who are to apply for permission for 325 apartments, a 185 bedroom hotel plus other commercial units.
The taxpayer received 6 million for the land in lieu of the convention centre plus the land, and now the taxpayer is forking out 8 million for a minority interest in Howard Holdings convention centre to be build in the docklands.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby theblimp » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:14 am

Kite - memory is fading me here on this one, but I was strongly under the impression that the original terms of the OCP/McC Devs Mahon Point deal was that if OCP didn't build the 'Trade Centre' then they would have to pay the penalty fee AND the land would revert to CCC ownership. CCC have backtracked now and said it was just the penalty fee .... however I do remember reading that it was an 'AND', not an 'OR' way back in Nav. House!!!

As for CCC equity in HH's centre in the Dockland's, I was also always under the impression that this was to be the case. However I'm pretty sure you'll find that the 'deal' done has resulted in NO equity being taken by CCC - 'Here ya go, poor impoverished HH, just take the money'!!!!! :eek:
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:06 am

theblimp wrote:Kite - memory is fading me here on this one, but I was strongly under the impression that the original terms of the OCP/McC Devs Mahon Point deal was that if OCP didn't build the 'Trade Centre' then they would have to pay the penalty fee AND the land would revert to CCC ownership. CCC have backtracked now and said it was just the penalty fee .... however I do remember reading that it was an 'AND', not an 'OR' way back in Nav. House!!!

As for CCC equity in HH's centre in the Dockland's, I was also always under the impression that this was to be the case. However I'm pretty sure you'll find that the 'deal' done has resulted in NO equity being taken by CCC - 'Here ya go, poor impoverished HH, just take the money'!!!!! :eek:


I agree with your recollection of events, i also thought that the Mahon land would return to CCC ownership if the penalty fee was called in.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby THE_Chris » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:18 pm

News from the Cork RDO website ->

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n25_carrigtwohill_midleton_interchanges_current_stage.php

N25 interchanges Carrigtwohill to Midleton scheme has been scrapped for now.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Leesider » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:35 pm

just looking at that website and it seems the Mitchelstown bypass is the only one currently under construction, the rest are in design stage but no funding.........so in essence only one major road project is underway in Cork, along with the airport fiasco, the midleton line delays......it makes you wonder what in hell we are getting from this government transport and development wise!!!

which brings me to the point of questions and answers (tuesday night), there was a guy on not sure of his name but think he was an economist, who basically said the spatially strategy is a joke, agreed, but also that Dublin is the only viable centre in Ireland due to crtical mass and that everything should be centred there!! Any thoughts on this?? Is Cork really following false hopes or have our hopes not been realised due to government ineptitude??

It seems to me that government publicly stated and private policy are two different things!!
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:52 am

Leesider wrote:
It seems to me that government publicly stated and private policy are two different things!!



I think you have captured the essence of a few thousand books there, written on governments

If Cork just got the funding and our own Transport Authority, we can do it ourselves. Most of our projects depend on someone in Dublin giving the nod on funding.What power do the Cork politicians have?

Recent transport study in Carrigaline, that the area needed for a long time, has come up with various solutions (including a Park N Share - anyone ever heard of one of them?). Turns out that even though the study is complete, there is no funding to implement any of it. Unbelievable.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby jungle » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:02 am

I think you're at the heart of the problem with Irish politicians there. They actually spend money on studies and grand plans because it fools people into thinking they are doing something about problems.

Let me give you an example on this.

Recently talk has yet again emerged of a light rail system. I'm all for this, but really it's not what we need politicians to look at now.

Even if a decision was made to build it today, we'd be looking at the following timeframe

Identification of routes would take until 2009
You'd then look at a public enquiry, which would take it into 2010
Then you need to get the legalities of the railway order/planning permission sorted out, so we're talking late 2010
Put out tenders and we're into 2011
And then judging by the LUAS it would take 3 or 4 years to build it.

So, even if the decision was made today and the funding was available, we wouldn't see it in operation until 2014 at the earliest.

Now, if we go back to the last election. Imagine somebody has then decided to double bus frequency on every route. Even with buying busses and hiring and training drivers, we could be seeing benefits pretty soon.

The truth is that the grand designs hide the fact that politicians aren't making the simple decisions that could mean a massive improvement in the transport situation in the city.

It's actually hard to quantify my disillusionment with all the main political parties, their lack of vision and even their lack of basic planning and managerial skills. Sometimes I think I should get involved in politics because I could hardly do a worse job, but then when I look at the alternatives of being part of one of the parties that have historically failed us or being an independent with no power to influence or make changes, I just despair completely.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Saucy Jack » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:29 am

jungle wrote:I think you're at the heart of the problem with Irish politicians there. They actually spend money on studies and grand plans because it fools people into thinking they are doing something about problems.

Let me give you an example on this.

Recently talk has yet again emerged of a light rail system. I'm all for this, but really it's not what we need politicians to look at now.

Even if a decision was made to build it today, we'd be looking at the following timeframe

Identification of routes would take until 2009
You'd then look at a public enquiry, which would take it into 2010
Then you need to get the legalities of the railway order/planning permission sorted out, so we're talking late 2010
Put out tenders and we're into 2011
And then judging by the LUAS it would take 3 or 4 years to build it.

So, even if the decision was made today and the funding was available, we wouldn't see it in operation until 2014 at the earliest.

Now, if we go back to the last election. Imagine somebody has then decided to double bus frequency on every route. Even with buying busses and hiring and training drivers, we could be seeing benefits pretty soon.

The truth is that the grand designs hide the fact that politicians aren't making the simple decisions that could mean a massive improvement in the transport situation in the city.

It's actually hard to quantify my disillusionment with all the main political parties, their lack of vision and even

their lack of basic planning and managerial skills. Sometimes I think I should get involved in politics because I could hardly do a worse job, but then when I look at the alternatives of being part of one of the parties that have historically failed us or being an independent with no power to influence or make changes, I just despair completely.



Look at the Healy - Rea's and the Tony Gregories of this world and what they have recieved for their constituencies ?

The current government are very poor in relation to Cork.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Leesider » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:48 pm

What exactly are the NRA doing in Cork at the moment besides the Mitchelstown bypass?? Nothing as far as I can see, and also announced yesterday that Mallow (government designated hub town) will not get its relief road because the land was zoned for housing and no corridor was left!!!!!
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Aidan » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:02 pm

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10181&lang=ENG&loc=2260

The N25 scheme between Midleton and Carrig is moving to CPO/EIS this year also. Makes construction during 2009 unlikely though. Realistically, it should be considered as part of the Railway/Midleton Northern Ring set of projects, there will be very significant changes to the road network in the area if (when) its all done.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Angry Rebel » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:21 am

I read last week that the Mallow North Ring Road and the N25 scheme have now both been parked by the NRA. Mallow because apparently the UDC rezoned some of the land needed and now it'll cost too much to buy, and the N25 because Amgen aren't coming.

Did a quick search for it there, but can't find the article...
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby carrigdhoun » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:32 pm

Ryanair seemed to have added an extra route out of Cork to Bristol but there was no typical Ryanair fanfare about it or I can't find a timetable on the website. Was this route forecast back along?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby lawyer » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:24 pm

carrigdhoun wrote:Ryanair seemed to have added an extra route out of Cork to Bristol but there was no typical Ryanair fanfare about it or I can't find a timetable on the website. Was this route forecast back along?


It has been suggested that this is a one off for the Munster Heinekin Cup match.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Leesider » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:25 pm

didn't realise they were flying to Carcassonne either! had only checked the website 2 weeks ago and neither of those were on it as far as I can remember.......good news though!
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby quietsailor » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:21 pm

jungle wrote:I'd say anyone who disagrees with THE_Chris has never had the pleasure of driving the N20. The Charleville-Croom section is digraceful considering it links the state's second city to its third and fourth. Last time I drove it, it took me 15 minutes to get through Buttevant. At least the N8 doesn't pass through any towns now and is 2+1 for most of the route.


I live close to Charleville and work shift in Cork city so I go home regulary. The traffic and general road conditions betwen Mallow and Charleville and on as far as Croom are so bad I just don't bother sitting into the car if its any way near rush hour - 1630 to 1700 - Instead I sit down and read a book. By the time I finish reading and drive home I'm probably arriving in Kilmallock at the same time but for far less stress. :confused:That shouldn't be right but its Ireland.

And does anybdy know why they are digging up Buttevant, I can recall them doing the same thing less than 15 years ago?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:21 am

:rolleyes:Great to see that our city fathers have such faith in our public transport system that they plan to increase the cost of on street parking fees dramatically in an effort to force those who have not had the pleasure of using our light rail system, modern buses, and riverboats to do so.

Does this mean that our officials will use our transport system and forgo the unlimited free city center parking they enjoy? Given that we sold Navigation House to OCP at a 4 million discount to ensure free parking for city staff I would not hold my breath on that one.

Still our staff are extremely busy at present, and are working flat out to complete the ;)purchase (bail out) of unsold housing stock that is “building” daily, the last thing they need is to worry about is, if the bus will blown a head gasket again while stuck in suburban traffic!
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:05 am

yes, upping the charges without actually having a half decent transport system is pretty poor stuff - you can see why they are doing it though, something around €5m in parking fees, disc sales, towing charges etc was generated. Still no nightlinks, tried to get a bus from carrigaline to town last sun evening - never turned up, taxi from patrick st to carrigaline later that night cost me 23 euro. Same price as the dinner I went in to town for. Absolute joke.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby browser » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:28 am

Rather scary alright that that whole article in the Examiner with quotes galore from City Hall makes no reference, even long term, to light rail.

Didn't John "Without Bertie's kind offer of a Mercedes I'd be nothing" Gormley and his cohorts claim to have negotiated into the programme for government something about studies into light rail in Cork (and Galway?) within a year (?) of taking office? Any news on that? I'd say John Gormley will pull the plug on the Government if it is not done in time as he is all for principles and wouldn't put keeping his own Merc (or Prius presumably) ahead of any other consideration. Not his style at all.

Incidentally, didn't Gormley look lovely perched there behind Bertie the Hounded when Bertie gave us his "I've done the State some service" speech? Dan Boyle is going to have some fun explaining that image to Green voters in Cork South Central come the next election.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:50 am

local councillor told me, that they had been told there would never be a light rail to carrigaline because of the "topography". Didnt realise Carrigaline was in the Grand Canyon. Dont they have trains in Switzerland that can go up mountains?

I think its that they could put in a luas type thing from the main roundabout in carrigaline on the new N28 all the way to Mount Oval but then the cost of putting it on the South link road, to the Kinsale roundabout and into city centre would never get funding

what happened thos tram/bus things?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:46 am

Pug wrote:what happened thos tram/bus things?


The tram bus things are unlikely to work, because to make proper use of them you need at least a skeleton cheap version of tram infrastructure. I.e. you need longer bus bays, adaptation of junctions to avoid turning problems, bus lanes, automatic ticketing and ticket spot checks (to allow use of rear doors and avoid queues of people buying/validating tickets on-board).

I can pretty much guarantee that Bus Éireann are unlikely to do anything beyond use bustrams as higher capacity buses, either through lack of will on their part, or no resources for them to follow through even if they like the idea of the above (admittedly, despite not regarding BÉ that highly, I would suggest they probably would like them to work and would like proper infrastructure, but aren't going to get it). Bustrams would therefore have much longer and more problematic loading/unloading at stops and so will probably result in a degradation of service (although on routes where people are left behind at stops currently they may give people a journey at the expense of travel time overall).
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:55 am

Like the song goes….

“Look at doubt we’ve wallowed,
Look at the leaders we’ve followed,
Look at the lies we’ve swallowed,
And I don’t want to hear no more”

Do you think Guns N’ Roses had our pitiful shower of Councillors, TD’s, and Senators in mind when they penned the lyrics?
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