Cork Transport

[Aidan]

Yup, definitely different to the one I'm talking about. There might be a reason for that too, the plans I'm looking at are very recent. Wait and see, I suppose.

[jungle]

I've seen plans with a traffic bridge crossing the river in front of the (new) railway station, with specific proviso for future use as a light rail bridge. No idea if that bridge is an opener, but I really doubt it, for obvious reasons.

Openable bridges that carry tramlines are not uncommon in The Netherlands. Off hand, I can think of one in Rijswijk and one in Rotterdam.

[THE_Chris]

Sorry for the delay (busy!) but heres the R624 Fota road documentation. I took photos of it and popped it into a zip file.

Its too big for upload to Archiseek, so I've had to put it on Sendspace.

Leftclick on this, then leftclick on the link at the bottom. The site is clean, I use it often.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/muwjss

If it grumbles, try again later.


If the link expires, post here and I'll reupload.


Comments on the alignment and issues related to it??

[Pug]

I'm all in favour of improving transport but let me play devils advocate here

there is work starting on the new Fermoy-Mitchelstown road, the contract is worth €70 million apparently. I'm not sure if that includes the various CPO's on the land along the way. This road will save approx. 10 minutes. driving.

Is it worth it?

[Peter Fitz]

I'm all in favour of improving transport but let me play devils advocate here

there is work starting on the new Fermoy-Mitchelstown road, the contract is worth €70 million apparently. I'm not sure if that includes the various CPO's on the land along the way. This road will save approx. 10 minutes. driving.

Is it worth it?

As its another segment of the overall Dublin to Cork motorway, linking the fermoy bypass with the mitchelstown to cashel stretch (under construction) yes it is both necessary & worth it.

[THE_Chris]

I would play slight devils advocate with that section of the Cork-Dublin road. With the Mitchelstown relief road it isnt QUITE necessary yet. I've long said that that section should be postponed and the money put into the Mallow-Croom section of the N20.

As it stands, Mitchelstown - Fermoy is in reasonable condition and although it is necessary to make it motorway soon, it can wait till that section of the N20 is done.

But its more political to get the whole of the N8 to motorway standard though, and not fix a dreadful part of the N20 first

[Peter Fitz]

Is that you playing devil's advocate, or is that your view ! ?

I don't agree either way ... we can't have a situation where the motorway to our second city returns to single carriageway for 16km ! All interurbans are to be finished by 2010 & as it stands are on or ahead of schedule, there can't be any further slippage in the 2010 deadline, remember 2006 was the initial target !

[Pug]

i agree with you, it should be done (and should have been completed a long time ago)

I just think that €70 million euro for 10 mins saving time is not value for money, I'd love to see a breakdown of the cost.

[THE_Chris]

Yeah I agree that it should be done, but safety and priorites should dictate that the Fermoy - Mitchelstown, with its new relief road and basicially 2+1 most of the way should be postponed until the worst section of the N20 (single carriageway, no hard shoulder, poor line of sight) is done.

My view FWIW. Although the work should have been done by 2006 and heads should roll for that, a 16km stretch of single carriageway, 2+1 and a relief road should be a lower priority than a road that is nothing but a national disgrace.

[jungle]

I'd say anyone who disagrees with THE_Chris has never had the pleasure of driving the N20. The Charleville-Croom section is digraceful considering it links the state's second city to its third and fourth. Last time I drove it, it took me 15 minutes to get through Buttevant. At least the N8 doesn't pass through any towns now and is 2+1 for most of the route.

[Peter Fitz]

I'd say anyone who disagrees with THE_Chris has never had the pleasure of driving the N20. The Charleville-Croom section is digraceful considering it links the state's second city to its third and fourth. Last time I drove it, it took me 15 minutes to get through Buttevant. At least the N8 doesn't pass through any towns now and is 2+1 for most of the route.

Fair enough, if the N20 is dangerous, of course it should be sorted, and no I haven't yet had the pleasure !

According to the NRA though you might be waiting a while ...

N20 Mallow to Croom

Description: The scheme involves 37 km of dual carriageway including bypasses of Buttevant & Charleville extending from north of Newtwopothouse to the southern end of Croom bypass.
Mainline Length (km): 37
Current Project Phase: Preliminary Design
Major Inter-urban Route: No

There is no reason why one has to happen at the expense of the other, it looks like government is finally about to get over its anti borrowing obsession, we'll see on wednesday.

[THE_Chris]

Theres no real reason why one has to override the other, but it is political "Get the interurbans done" that gives the N8 priority. Cork - Limerick connection is low priority, although I have read elsewhere that the NRA are pushing at least this section of the N20.

[Angry Rebel]

You'd have to wonder at the definitions as well!? Inter-urban? What are Cork and Limerick if not bloody well urban. It reflects the Dublin-centricity of all government planning.

"Sure no one would be going anywhere other than Dublin would they...?!"

[bosco]

Is that you playing devil's advocate, or is that your view ! ?

I don't agree either way ... we can't have a situation where the motorway to our second city returns to single carriageway for 16km ! All interurbans are to be finished by 2010 & as it stands are on or ahead of schedule, there can't be any further slippage in the 2010 deadline, remember 2006 was the initial target !

I've seen the term 'inter-urban' mentioned here a few times. This is not in any way anti-Dublin sentiment, but it speaks volumes of the attitudes of our recent governments that the basic definition of 'inter-urban' is "roads to Dublin," while any other routes connecting the major urban centres apart from the capital are pushed down the agenda indefinitely. What does this say about their attitude towards decentralisation, the national spatial strategy etc? Were all these expensive studies just a complete and utter waste of time, money and resources?

[kite]

Cork could become the first city outside Dublin to have a Luas system as Transport Minister Noel Dempsey yesterday revealed a feasibility study on having a light rail system in the city was at an advanced stage.

And with his next breath he stated….
“ it was still possible that rapid bus schemes could be a cheaper, speedier option than light rail projects”.

Just what is Minister “Amgen” Martin doing in Government? The Independent TS’s delivered more for their constituents after one half hour meeting with Berti Ahern then this guy has over the past 10 years.

[samuel j]

Just what is Minister “Amgen” Martin doing in Government? - Very good, like it Kite....

[Saucy Jack]

Remarkably quiet on the Cork Docklands tax designation missing from the budget also.

[browser]

Remarkably quiet on the Cork Docklands tax designation missing from the budget also.

I'll say it again, we get what we vote for. Equally, we don't really give out enough. If Limerick was due to get something in the budget and didn't get it there would be marches. I didn't see anything about the omission of the tax breaks until the Cork Independent yesterday (which in fairness has a good editorial line). The Examiner and Dublin press didn't utter a word.

[Pug]

feasibility study on the Luas is welcome but when thats done, there will prob have to be a cost benefit analysis, then funding will have to be appropriated, then the thing actually built, its all a dripfeed of information to cover up the length of time these things take if in fact it will happen at all and we just get extra trambuses / bustrams, whatever they are calling them these days

Brian Cowen announced shamelessly the budget would provide funds for the Cork Midleton railway to be ready for 2009 (i.e. 2010), a project originally announced in May 2004. Was there any mention of Sarsfield Rd/Bandon Rd flyover, N28 to Ringaskiddy, Macroom Bypass, etc etc

Kent Station redevelopment was announced in 2005. In August 2007 CIE said a plan for the redevelopment would be ready "within months". Shouldnt it have been ready in 2005?

[jungle]

It was in the Examiner alright yesterday, but stuck in the business section.

Since the Examiner started pretending to be a national paper, it's lost focus on local issues and the Echo seems more worried about whether someone can afford a new SUV than developments that might define the city's future.

Honestly, all the big parties need a good kick up the backside in Cork. A local party that could leave aside all the national dogmas and just get on with running the city well and standing up for the city in the Dail could do wonders. Local elections in 2009. Time to start thinking...

[Saucy Jack]

It was in the Examiner alright yesterday, but stuck in the business section.

Since the Examiner started pretending to be a national paper, it's lost focus on local issues and the Echo seems more worried about whether someone can afford a new SUV than developments that might define the city's future.

Honestly, all the big parties need a good kick up the backside in Cork. A local party that could leave aside all the national dogmas and just get on with running the city well and standing up for the city in the Dail could do wonders. Local elections in 2009. Time to start thinking...

Thought same also the Examiner is pointless being a national paper.

Cork Independent is also rubbish but way better than the Evening Echo which just gets worse.

A local party / lobby group would get things done rather than the "lets move everyone and everything to Dublin" policy which is bad for everyone.

Independent TD's just have to hold out for a deal in the next election and as kingmakers name their wish list Jackie Healy Rea style.

[Saucy Jack]

feasibility study on the Luas is welcome but when thats done, there will prob have to be a cost benefit analysis, then funding will have to be appropriated, then the thing actually built, its all a dripfeed of information to cover up the length of time these things take if in fact it will happen at all and we just get extra trambuses / bustrams, whatever they are calling them these days

Brian Cowen announced shamelessly the budget would provide funds for the Cork Midleton railway to be ready for 2009 (i.e. 2010), a project originally announced in May 2004. Was there any mention of Sarsfield Rd/Bandon Rd flyover, N28 to Ringaskiddy, Macroom Bypass, etc etc

Kent Station redevelopment was announced in 2005. In August 2007 CIE said a plan for the redevelopment would be ready "within months". Shouldnt it have been ready in 2005?

Chatting to an old fellah retired engineer in a pub in Cork recently and he argued that Cork was more prestigious and better looked after under British Rule, infrastructure wise with tram service,trains,ports,dry docks,British Navy at Cobh,roads & rail infrastructure etc and that Cobh has gone into decline since the British Navy pulled out.

[browser]

I would vote for it. Anyone want to start such a party!

[Praxiteles]

The abandonment of Cork by the quandam Cork Examiner is regrettable.

[who_me]

Cork seems to be very, very poorly represented by our politicians. Compare our public transport, with Dublin. Compare our lack of modern sports facilities, to Limerick or Dublin. Compare our airport & routes offered, to Limerick(Shannon) or Dublin.

What exactly do they do all day?