Metro North

Metro North

Postby shamrockmetro » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:32 pm

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/NC0003.htm

PL29S.NC0003
Case type: Railway Ord. - Consultation
Decision: Case is due to be decided by 13-11-2007
EIS required: No

note: this is not the application

Parties:

Railway Procurement Agency (Prosp. Applicant)
http://www.rpa.ie
Dublin City Council (Local Authority)
http://www.dublincity.ie

http://www.rpa.ie/metro/about_metro/metro_history

Revised Business Case

Following concerns raised in relation to the affordability of the Metro, RPA submitted a Revised Business Case to Government in June 2003. The original Outline Business Case was based on an assumed alignment which looped through the city centre to ensure interchange with Connolly and Pearse stations. The revised proposal suggested options for achieving significant cost savings by shortening the City Centre alignment, reducing the number of underground stations, and reducing the budget for station finishes.

PPP

A PPP is a contractual arrangement between the public and private sectors with clear agreement on shared objectives for the delivery of public infrastructure and/or public services by the private sector that would otherwise have been provided through traditional public sector procurement.

METRO NORTH

http://www.rpa.ie/upload/documents/October%202006%20-%20Dublin%20Metro%20North.pdf

O’Connell Bridge Stop

http://www.rpa.ie/upload/documents/BMN0000PR7003B02.pdf

St. Stephen’s Green Stop

http://www.rpa.ie/upload/documents/BMN0000PR7005B01.pdf


Questions that I would like to know:

1. How much will a trip to the airport cost? in spain its around 2 euro
2 Why are they calling it a metro it appears more like a luas?

submitted bids...
source http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2007/1109/1194549952032.html

1. Dublin Express Link

tram operator Keolis,
Irish construction group SIAC,
HSBC, one of the world's biggest banks
rolling stock provider Alstom,
private equity fund Meridiam
rail service provider Spie Rail
French industrial group Buoygues.

2. Cathró consortium

Siemens
Luas operator Veolia
Vienna-based construction company Strabag
communications group Ascom
asset manager BAM
Fluor, a Texas-based engineering company.

3. Celtic Metro Group

investment group Mitsui
thought to include Barclays Private Equity
rail operator MTR
rolling stock provider Caf
Portuguese civil engineering group Soares da Costa.

4. MetroExpress

includes AIB bank
rish construction contractors Sisk
Australian investment group Macquarie
signalling and communications provider Bombardier
construction group FCC
Portuguese engineering group Global Vía.

Metro is Not Just For Dubliners

Metro line will not only be used by people living and working along the Metro line, but also those commuting from outlying towns who will make use of it. It will be used by people from all regions of the country travelling to Dublin Airport, since Metro will be connected with the two main railway stations via the Luas Red Line, and will provide a gateway to Ireland for tourists.
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Re: Metro North

Postby SeamusOG » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:41 pm

Why would Fingal County Council not be listed there as a local authority?
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Re: Metro North

Postby notjim » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:44 pm

So what gets decided on the 13th: is this just the determination of whether or not this is to be considered as a strategic development?

Shouldn't we append this thread to the existing Metro North thread:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3679
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Re: Metro North

Postby shamrockmetro » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:49 pm

very good point!
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Re: Metro North

Postby shamrockmetro » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:11 pm

the title of the other thread should be metro north not airport link
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Re: Metro North

Postby notjim » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:30 pm

Yes it would be good to change the thread name now the metro goes to Swords. Do you know what we learn on the 13th? What steps have to be gone through before the Railway Order. Has anything got planning permission under as Strategic Infrastructure.

BTW The members only part of the platform 11 site has plans of the Ballymun and O'Connell Street stops. The most stricking thing in the latter case is just how big it is, the southern entrances are by the Harp building and the northern ones a block north of the bridge. The line is a long way underground.
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Re: Metro North

Postby notjim » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:44 pm

shamrockmetro wrote:http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/NC0003.htm

PL29S.NC0003
Case type: Railway Ord. - Consultation
Decision: Case is due to be decided by 13-11-2007
EIS required: No

note: this is not the application



They seem to be having problems deciding this whatever it is, it now says

"Decision: Case is due to be decided by 29-11-2007"
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Re: Metro North

Postby shamrockmetro » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:40 pm

how much is the appeal fee to the high court?
how much is the appeal fee to the european court of first instance? :D

no one has sent any plans to me : P
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Re: Metro North

Postby shamrockmetro » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:41 pm

soil testing...
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:12 am

these guys are so sneaky its not funny....
They must remember this is Europe not America
I only realized that it was there because I have checked the page so many times

http://www.rpa.ie/upload/documents/20080207%20Updated%20Final%20Scoping%20Report_Feb_FinalV4.pdf

If you look under

http://www.rpa.ie/metro/environment/environmental_impact_assessment

you will not find any mention of it.... but under

http://www.rpa.ie/metro/about_metro/what_is_metro

you will find it with no date of when it was added.:eek:

Metro North Public Consultation on Design

Following the announcement of the route for Metro North on Thursday October 19th 2006 work commenced on the appraisal of detailed design options for Metro North. RPA are currently engaged in ongoing consultation related to design options for Metro North. As the project progresses detailed design options are emerging for a number of areas of Metro North.

A Draft EIS Scoping Report has been published for Metro North, click here to view or download this report.

RPA will provide draft design drawings of the Metro North Route as they become available, to see these draft design drawings click here.



I spoke with the board a few times and they said when the application is made you will be able to view all drawings and documents on the internet.
If it is only advertised for 4 weeks it could take them 2 weeks to scan the whole package.

Frank if you need to ask for more money do it....

I will not support a metro that has no architectural merit.
I will not support off the shelf signage.
I will not support excessive advertising on trains
stations and entrances.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:57 am

List of attendees at the Metro North Scoping Workshop

The Dublin City Council City Architect was not involed!!!!
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:43 pm

It makes sense that metro north should connect with Belfast...
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:50 pm

It makes sense that metro north should connect with Belfast??
and have 4 platforms at the airport?
There is a building laying vacant in Westmoreland st I hope they are not going to use that as the metro entrance?
Park and ride??? good idea in theory but it should all be underground who should pay for it?
the NRA who should pay to resurface and landscape all stations directed by a landscape architect mostly in Chinese granite?

They will also fund the bridge over O'Connell st and st Stephens green?

Hutton the reason why this project is going so slow is the developers get in first and don't have to subsidize the project?
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Re: Metro North

Postby Peter Fitz » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:03 pm

So finally we get a piece of the EIS, merely the 'Draft scoping report for consultation' in fact.

Out of a total 47 pages, there's very little mention of Stephen's Green & the impact installing a construction 'compound' within the parks confines will have, permanent or otherwise. Indeed reference to it is so vague, you'd have to conclude that tree felling within the green will not be necessary - i'm not convinced.

Unless the RPA can keep its compound strictly within the confines of the Green's main lake, itself surrounded by some of the parks most mature specimens, felling looks to be inevitable.

For those interested all references to Stephen's Green within the report are summarised below.
Mention within the report itself is limited to 3 paragraphs. The bulk of comment, or shall we say concern for the green comes at the end in a summarised table of comments received from the main stake holders - OPW, DCC & DoEHLG.

Metro North EIS:
Draft Scoping Report for consultation wrote:

... From O’]Comments received as part of consultation[/B]

- St. Stephen’s Green should be considered as a feature of architectural heritage. The architectural impact must therefore be considered as well as the archaeological impact. – DoEHLG

- The assessors should consider whether or not St. Stephen’s Green is a National Monument under the National Monuments Acts 1930 – 2004. At least one member of DoEHLG believes that it is and if it is, Ministerial Consent will be required prior to development.. – DoEHLG

- Structures within St. Stephen’s Green must be protected e.g. statues, rails etc. – OPW

- Erosion of greenbelts with the location of stops must be considered, especially in relation to the impact on the footprint of St. Stephen’s Green (the entire Green and not just the 500m radius).

- All construction plant and equipment should be kept within the confines of St. Stephens Green so as to minimise the visual impact on the surrounding environment.

- The impact of dust from the development should be considered in relation to the entire area of St. Stephen’s Green and not just a 500m radius.

- If any permanent structures are to be erected in the Green, the impact must be considered.

- The impact that pedestrian footfall and the development may have on the water table for the trees.

- Clarification is needed in relation to the proposed size of the compound at St. Stephen’s Green and other design arrangements.



So essentially, we're none the wiser. All we know is that the Green's terminus is to be located at the north west corner & that it will of course require a large bored tuning circle, i.e what we already knew; nothing on the size of this compound.

I’m convinced the RPA are side stepping this one. Lets face it, a TBM is hardly the most graceful of man made objects. If felling turns out to be necessary within the Green, & its difficult to see how it can be avoided – there are many out there, far more militant than me, that will be up in arms about this one.

There is an alternative of course.
Spare St. Stephen’s Green the heavy toll of the 5 year construction period & utilise the lawn of the adjacent Iveagh Gardens.

Image

Don’t get me wrong, the Iveagh Gardens are a gem & i’ve been jumped on before for suggesting it as an alternative, but the simple fact remains that the lawn can be reinstated exactly as is, whereas the perfectly maturing set piece that is the green is in danger of being altered permanently.

Put simply, the Iveagh lawn equates to less than a third of the overall park, is large enough to contain the RPA’s compound in its entirety, can be easily sealed off for the duration, but most importantly, can be successfully reinstated.

There is an alternative.
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Re: Metro North

Postby jdivision » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:27 pm

From yesterday's Sunday Business Post:
Developer Joe O'Reilly wrote to the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) criticising the decision to reduce the number of Metro North stops in Dublin city centre. O'Reilly said that the decision to reduce the number of stations from three to two "is a weak compromise". In a letter written in October 2006, and released to The Sunday Business Post under the Freedom of Information Act, he said that the southern part of the city centre will "yet again be strengthened by the current proposal which dedicates one station (St Stephen's Green) to the south, while the second station is shared; the northside has no station. Furthermore the positioning of a station on O'Connell Bridge will serve to create greater division between north and south Dublin."

The RPA has said it will consider a third city centre stop at Parnell Square East, after a request from Dublin City Council. That station would be close to a number of properties owned by O'Reilly, including the former Carlton cinema site and adjoining land on O'Connell Street and a 50 per cent stake in the Ilac Centre to the rear of that site.

"It is true that a metro exit at Abbey Street would be within 300 metres of our development but we are not looking to just create a successful shopping district quarter," O'Reilly continued. "We see our development as an engine for regeneration - simply put, we want a successful development in a vibrant, prosperous part of the town. Together with the metro we can rejuvenate Parnell Square/Dominick Street and the surrounding areas, making them as attractive as St Stephen's Green on the south side."

O'Reilly said that if the decision is made to stick to two stations they should be equitably positioned with one on the southside and one on the northside. He said the proposed station under O'Connell Bridge was in an area already congested with pedestrians and would be a disaster. "It just does not make sense to put all the commuters and tourists through streets crowded with shoppers to get to the metro," he wrote. "By positioning the second station at north O'Connell Street/Parnell Square east we will put passengers away from the areas of congestion."

O'Reilly continued that the new public square planned for part of the Carlton cinema site would be able to accommodate a metro exit and contrasted that situation with Oxford Circus tube station in London which has to close regularly at peak time because of passenger congestion. "There is only one chance to get this right and the decisions made now will impact on generations to come," he concluded.

An earlier submission, drawn up by TJ O'Connor & Associates on behalf of O'Reilly's Chartered Land, said that if one "enters the Ilac from Henry Street and exits on Parnell Street is is like going into a time-maching, regressing about 15 years to pre-Celtic Tiger days". Other documents show Chartered's redevelopment of the Carlton site will involve constructing a 92,900 square metre development.

RPA chairman Padraic White responded that following talks with stakeholders in the O'Connell Street area it became clear that a stop there would have had significant drawbacks in terms of the likely impact on businesses and traffic. The station under the Liffey was then chosen because there would be less construction impact and because it offered better connections to the Luas red line.

He said he did not agree with O'Reilly's view that the stop under the Liffey would create additional congestion problems because the station's location would reduce the number of people using O'Connell Bridge. Up to six entrances in total will be used to allow passengers disperse from the station and the footways on O'Connell Bridge will be widened.

Fintan Fagan, general manager of The Rotunda Hospital in Dublin, wrote that the RPA and said that the hospital "fully endorses" the Parnell Square metro stop. He also requested that the stop be named Rotunda, stating it would be "a significant step in reintegrating the Rotunda Hospital and its services into the North Dublin community, in keeping with Dublin City Council's vision for Parnell Square to be the jewel in the crown of the north side of Dublin". The submission also includes details of the hospital's plan to increase the existing amount of development on the site from 20,000 square metres to 50,000 square metres. It will also provide 600 underground car parking spaces.

A number of letters sent to the RPA by representatives of Metropark were not released by the RPA because they contained personal information. However, the submission made on behalf of Metropark owner Hugo Byrne by land use consultants ILTP was made available under the Act. It states that the vision for the land is based on that of an international airport city, "which can lead to the formation of a new regional pole driven by the airport's outstanding accessibility".

The masterplan for the site sets out two quantums of development for the land. The higher quantum includes nearly 625,000 square metres of offices, 68,000 square metres of residential use, 148,000 square metres of hotels and conference centres, just under 42,000 square metres of civic buildings, 29,000 square metres of retail parks and car showrooms and 235,000 square metres of warehousing. In total it would comprise just under 1.15 million square metres of development.

A lower quantum would allow 437,000 square metres of office development, 48,500 square metres of residential units, 74,400 square metres of hotels and conference centres, just under 28,000 square metres of civic buildings, 20,300 square metres of retail park and car showrooms and just under 140,000 square metres of warehousing. That would be a cumulative total of just under 750,000 square metres of development.

Three routes were originally put forward by the RPA for Metro North. The first was a western route via Broadstone and Finglas, the second was a central route via Glasnevin and Ballymun and the third was an eastern route via Drumcondra and Santry. Eventually the RPA decided to go for a combination of the second and third routes meaning trams will travel via Drumcondra and Ballymun

Developer Liam Carroll's company Royceton made a submission lobbying for a stop on Botanic Road in Phibsbrough. The stop would have been next to the old Smurfit paper factory site on Botanic Road, which he owns, and which would have allowed a high density mixed use development around a transportation interchange "which will incorporate bus, metro and heavy rail facilities". The submission stated that the developer is planning to build more than 240 residential units, 6,970 square metres of retail, 5,000 square metres of commercial space and a creche on the site. Carroll's submission also states that an underground link between the metro station and the proposed new train station just off Prospect Road was possible and that they could be linked via a travellator. The RPA instead opted for stations in Drumcondra and Griffith Avenue.

The Irish Property Unit Trust, which is a joint owner of Airside retail park in Swords, said that the central or west route would be the best options because it would provide a public transport facility for customers of the retail park.

Jackpack Properties, via a submission by John Spain Associates, lobbied for the selection of the central or western routes. It owns 10.8 acres at Fosterstown North in Swords, Co Dublin. Jackpack Properties is not registered as a company or a trading name in the island of Ireland or in Britain, according to Companies House documents.

The Dublin Metro North-East Alliance - which comprised the GAA, Beaumont Hospital, a number of landowners and hotel owners - lobbied for the eastern route. The owners of Northside Shopping Centre and Clonshaugh industrial estate were also members of the group. They stated that the eastern route had 225 acres more land available for development than the central route and that it would have a higher catchment poulation as a result. It would also benefit the State as it owned significant amounts of land along that route.

Fyffes chairman Carl McCann wrote to the RPA in April 2006 stating that the company had "major development plans" for its 30-plus acre business property in Clonshaugh industrial estate and it was "very concerned" that the proposed eastern route "would cause us a significant loss in value" if it went through their land.

"In regard to Swords," he wrote, "I was puzzled by the location of [the Swords stop] as Airside business park is already well served by Airside. Could [the Swords stop] be relocated slightly further north to serve a) Swords Business Park, where we have a substantial premises, b) the Pavilion Shopping Centre and c) central Swords?"

He also questioned the location of the stop at the airport: "It looks on the map as if the station is beside the two hotels and a very long way from the terminal, and I cannot imagine how this could be the chosen location".

Trinity College asked for a review of the plan to put the metro underneath the university stating its land had a "complex water table regime" and the metro's "designers will need to consider the stability of all buildings that could be affected by the intereference with the water table levels caused by the metro construction". The final route chosen for Metro north will not pass under Trinity.

A submission by the Dublin Diocesan Trust outlining the draft masterplan for its lands at Clonliffe in Drumcondra was not released by the RPA because it contained confidential information.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:12 pm

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/ExampleStationatStephensGreen.pdf

You can see this photo was taken in winter compare it with the google earth one!
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:50 pm

worrying
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Re: Metro North

Postby weehamster » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:47 am

Hi missarchi. Can I ask where did this picture come from?
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:14 pm

http://www.rpa.ie/metro/news/news_letters

then go q card nov 2007

rpay4architecture@epretenders.ie.com.co.uk

whats funny about this is just how poorly the entrances are considered...
The rpa's/cie's main goal is to minimize disruption to traffic when really they should not be giving a toss.
From the drawings so far there are no double height spaces no full width open platforms.
At O'Connell st they will try and pull off Copenhagen style?
But there is still time...

Architecture does not even rate for these guys but maybe the wheels are turning with quick fix's....

I mean burger king or or the bank of ireland would make perfect entrances!!!!
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:22 pm

oh and they have added a light box... i mean sign i mean lightbox:D
cannot wait to see there street furniture drawings that are at 1:50 and are 1km long and 100 metres wide
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:51 pm

Low-capacity design favoured for Metro North

THE RAILWAY Procurement Agency (RPA) is to go ahead with a low-capacity design for Metro North, according to briefing documents circulated to the four consortiums which are bidding for the project. Tim O'Brien reports

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0322/1206024758456.html

The minister says the time for consultation is over ???

History

* 28/03/2007: Lodged
* : Consultancy has yet to be concluded
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Re: Metro North

Postby cgcsb » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:36 pm

We always knew they would go for the low cost, low capacity light rail system rather than a heavy rail system. They reasoned that Cities comparable in size to Dublin chose the light rail option rather than the heavy rail metro of Paris or London.
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Re: Metro North

Postby alonso » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:38 pm

I was always of the impression that MN and MW could both "potentially" carry up to 80,000 pph in both directions but would only operate up to 20,000 at the outset. Bit shitty that MN won't have that potential. But the article only states the width as the issue. What are the headways gonna be. Again, I was led to believe that they could be as low as 90 seconds. Is that still the case? And what impact will that have on the capacity. Does 20,000 relate to 180 sec headways?
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:28 pm

cgcsb wrote:We always knew they would go for the low cost, low capacity light rail system rather than a heavy rail system. They reasoned that Cities comparable in size to Dublin chose the light rail option rather than the heavy rail metro of Paris or London.


I think a few cities in europe went for pre metro's I want to see the population predictions for 2108... ;)

look at Geneva and Valencia Bilbao???

One other issue concerns me... Ticket price this I assumed will be positioned so that it does not compete with bus so you will have people catching the bus because it is cheaper which defeats the whole purpose of having the thing??? It will be marketed as a express service to the airport

I would also like to see bullet trains run through the inter connector every hour cork > Belfast
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