what's going up in Cobh

Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:30 pm

Just out of Interest, found these comments with regard to Cobh on : http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?p=1727241

"There is a huge community of people who sail around France/UK/Scotland every year and Cork could attract these by providing marinas and decent facilities like there are in France.
This summer I did a yacht delivery from La Rochelle back to Cork and all the way up the French coast as far as Cameret/Brest there's no problem getting marina space in any harbour. They all provide showers, shore power and all the other things you need like decent weather reports and engine repairs. You get back to Cork and there's a waiting list of years for marina space and lots of yachts have "do not tie alongside" signs on them.
As a result the ports we visited in France were jammed with UK, Dutch and French boats. Cork has a fantastic coast line and we're really shooting ourselves in the foot by preventing these developments going ahead."


[I]"Massive blow to Cobh the place is getting very run-down."

"La Rochelle,Ile De Re and Port De Minemes should be an example to Cork,Kinsale,Cobh etc on how to provide sailing facilities. They are very busy with boats from all over Europe."

"Had to moor at Clippers Bar yesterday in Cobh and head over to Monkstown to a mooring afterwards. What a farce."

" visited Cobh once - well to be honest it was a dirty weekend at the Water's Edge Hotel. Couldn't get over how a town with its position,history and beauty could be so neglected and run down. Fortunately it was a dirty weekend because without sex there didn't seem a lot else to do in the town except play hopscotch between the vomit on the street."

"yeah, a mate of mine lives down there and says no-one he knows goes out in the town anymore and few even bother shopping there as it's gotten so grim"


Interesting to hear what people have to say about us.... Think the comment
"there didn't seem a lot else to do in the town except play hopscotch between the vomit on the street." - Says it all....:o
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby marshalireland1 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:39 pm

I agree with your assements - Cobh has more potential than Kinsale, it is in a pathetic delapidated state, etc. But i also said a marina was very popular. But this was about apartments, not a marina. If it were a marina, or even a marina with a smaller set of apartments (ideally nicer looking too) it would have been built by now. There is a lack of vision in the council in Cobh such that they will accept anything good or bad (depending on your viewpoint) and this applies to loads of developments in the town. Why couldn't they just have said up front - it needs to be smaller and neater and you need to take the locals view on board. If you wanted to build this volume of apartments then Verolme would be technically easier and more popular.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:57 pm

"There is a lack of vision in the council in Cobh such that they will accept anything good or bad (depending on your viewpoint) and this applies to loads of developments in the town"

True words indeed... and not a level playing field... Amazing at times what they allow and then often turn down very tasteful smaller or owner/occupier amendents or additions. And not myself in case you think I a grudge holder but just know of many cases that got knocked on head or so unfeasible or costly..that people left with bad taste. However come along with something new 4 house plus and most like utter crap and away you go....

Complicance...well we touched on that.... a myth when it comes to Cobh....
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Spinal Tap » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:12 pm

samuel j wrote:Cobh with its setting in the centre of the harbour,facing south,outstanding architecture that only Kinsale and Crosshaven could dream of and deepwater for shipping and nowhere to moor a yacht.

The Pontoon at the Quays Bar is the only haven for a visting yacht and in high use all summer.
After that well.......I'm afraid I watch foreign boats in the summer day in/day out, come up in fornt of Cobh, do a quick u-turn and away again..... all with Cash in pocket ready to be spent.....

Cruise down the West coast of France and you can moor in similar sized ports easily with the industry and tourism surrounding it is a potential wasted.

Indeed and North Coast of Spain and Scotland as I've mentioned before

Visit La Rochelle sometime and see how the old and the new have been integrated.

A Prime example

Cobh will decay for another 10 years before anything is done.

Remember Kinsale 25 years ago - you could'nt give the place away.
Remember it well.....

Courtmacsherry and Schull are both getting their acts together on Marinas as they have seen the huge
shoreside benefits.... in fact Kerry at the moment doing very well with their 3 marinas, Cahirciveen, Dingle and Fenit... to County Corks expense...many French and German boats skipping West Cork and vacationing/cruising there directly due to excellent facilities. Know many who even temporarily leave boats there and come back again to continue their holiday or with other family members.... who all use shoreside transport etc...
This could have been Cobh...


Recently met 3 American families in Kinsale who had planned on staying in Cobh but due to the lack of facilities decided to spend their 2 weeks based in Kinsale and headed to west Cork.
they eventually got the train to Cobh and spent an afternoon doing the Titanic trail.

Developers willl be wary of Cobh and with Cork Docklands developments it will be bypassed even more.

If Cobh is'nt keeping up with the competition whats the point.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:33 pm

"Developers will be wary of Cobh"

Master of understatement there SpinalTap....::p

Run a mile.... when you have so many other locations with welcome arms for Marine infrastructure.:o
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Istigh » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:15 pm

Any reports from the public meeting and council meeting on the topic?
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:09 am

So what are the rumours I've been hearing about parking charges in Cobh being removed for three months (quietly) and then to be reinstated again?

And how comes this coincides with sightings of two parking attendants?
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:27 pm

Istigh wrote:Any reports from the public meeting and council meeting on the topic?

Don't have full details but gist was council and chamber will ask Ascon (who were not represented at the meeting) to stick at it and not pull out now....or perhaps try again...

Hummmmm.......:confused:
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby marshalireland1 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:08 am

I'd be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks - the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can't really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as "A marina" and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note - Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it's not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don't know the name but I'm sure everybody knows which ones I'm referring to).
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Spinal Tap » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:55 am

marshalireland1 wrote:I'd be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks - the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can't really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as "A marina" and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note - Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it's not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don't know the name but I'm sure everybody knows which ones I'm referring to).



Ardbrack ?
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:20 pm

marshalireland1 wrote:I'd be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks - the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can't really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as "A marina" and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note - Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it's not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don't know the name but I'm sure everybody knows which ones I'm referring to).


There were about 250 at the meeting. The majority of people expressed concern about the density of the housing but were fully behind the marina itself. They also respected the rights of the objectors
The town council suggested that a new plan be resubmitted.
People couldn't understand why the hotel was taken out of the original plan as this would mean that the proposal would have a large tourist impact and planning might have been obtained easier.
Though not present it is believed that the existing developers expressed a feeling that they would not submit any new plans.

It was suggested from the floor that another developer could be approached seeing that Ascon do not own any of the foreshore huts or a foreshore license.

I mentioned in previous comments the exhoribant annual fees the Dept of the Marine(or the now Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources) are trying to extract from developers for the actual Foreshore lease..... it is about euro 1000 per berth per year.
So excluding any shore side building etc.... this extortion is before you put anything actually in place on the water... You might wonder where the Marina charges go that a punter pays to let his boat at marina...
Take rates for example where say a 30foot boat at the moment pays somewhere about Euro 1500 to 1800 per year. Roughly a grand of that is going to the Dept., if the Marina is connected to the shore (like Kinsale) public land then rates also apply..... all this before you even put a pontoon in the water..... or the developer trys to pay for its upkeep/maintenance/staffin/insurance....the list goes on...

We hear from marine industry sources, Bord failte, steering committees here and there....studies on tourism ..you name it that we need marinas.... and we seem to be under the illusions that it just a case of away and build them and we expect developers to come along and build them..... sure its only a few old wooden pontoons....

No I'm afraid our own govn departments, county councils... have made it so expensive that no
one in their right mind will build just a marina.... in the current climate/regime it makes no business sense at all and as an investment just lunacy. So you can see why in many cases/applications the developer has to have shoreside development for it to have any chance of viability. Now there are cases where this did not happen
Kilrush, Dingle, Fenit and Cahirciveen but as far as I'm aware they were all built or heavily assisted with Govn grants...... and Kerry politicians to be fair that ensured they got the funding..... while there was funding to be given.... it too long gone as a source fo funding.

And If you have to dredge an area to get depth for boats, then you are into another minefield of costs....
3000 a day for Archelogical divers/expert advice while dredging.... and god forbid they find something of interest in the mud ....bang goes much of your marina..... then we have dumping licences if you can even get one...

Its endless and by end you'll end up a very frustrated and poor man.....

Just some thoguths but I think we will be waiting a long long time for any stand alone marina, if I can call it that to be built on or near the town of Cobh.

I've no doubt we will see more applications within the Harbour but they will be either very small private developments and not for visitors/tourism usage or large scale ones with all the trimmings and tourism boost potential but they will have some serious Shoreside developements...
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:18 pm

marshalireland1 wrote:I'd be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks - the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can't really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as "A marina" and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note - Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it's not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don't know the name but I'm sure everybody knows which ones I'm referring to).



Link here to a Report on the meeting from Great Island Newsletter

http://homepage.eircom.net/~greatisle/local.htm
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:01 pm

Commuter ferry service to set sail E-mail
Written by David Forsythe
Thursday, 18 October 2007
Details of a state-of-the-art catamaran ferry service that will link Cobh to the city centre in just half an hour will be announced shortly according to Cork City councillor Terry Shannon.

The Cork Harbour Cats service will operate three 250-seater catamarans that will whisk commuters from around Cork Harbour into the city centre, avoiding the traffic gridlock experienced daily during rush hour in the south east of the city.

According to Cllr Shannon the service will operate three brand-new catamarans costing €3 million each which will be able to operate in all weather conditions. On-board seating will be similar to that seen on airliners and the boats will include on-board coffee bars.

Daily services will be operated from Cobh, Aghada, Carrigaloe, Monkstown, Passage and Blackrock to the city centre and the company also plan to operate tourist services around Cork Harbour. The service, operated by a Cork-based consortium is expected to begin in 2010 and will create 45 jobs.

Cllr Shannon said, “The Council has already completed the feasibility study and talks involving the operator, City Council, County Council and Port of Cork are at an advanced stage. There are a few issues still to be ironed out but we hope to be able to make a detailed announcement in January”.

Cllr Shannon also confirmed that designs for the three proposed new bridges as part of the Docklands development will allow the catamarans to operate into the city centre without any problems.



If they do it, fantastic stuff.

http://www.corkindependent.com/local-news/local-news/commuter-ferry-service-to-set-sail/
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby marshalireland1 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:43 pm

Interesting thoughts from people who'd like to see a marina (although by the sounds of things not necessarily this marina). A few people who looked at at more thoroughly did appreciate that it wasn't simple NIMBYism but a valid concern for their own homes. There was also a certain train of thought similar to my own that maybe this isn't the right location. I thought the councellors statements were very poor. Especially the defence of their actions. The council could have been much more productive by doing a proper development plan (the developers would be happier) and better yet if they were that concerned about a marina for Cobh get a truly independant survey to determine the best location (the objectors would be happier). Surely the lawyers fees would have easily paid for such a study. A really brave move would been to build one across the front of the town from the old yacht club to lynch's quay. Any other thoughts on a good location? The defence of their own commitment seemed to me to be an admission - we wasted thousands of taxpayers money by giving it to lawyers in an attempt to thwart people's democratic rights. Or did I misread that part? That commitment would be much more believable if they fronted up the money themselves.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby samuel j » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:45 pm

"The defence of their own commitment seemed to me to be an admission - we wasted thousands of taxpayers money by giving it to lawyers in an attempt to thwart people's democratic rights"

You're right there.... what a waste.....only ones who gained where the legal eagles... don't mind them earning their crust but this case was just a joke..... which you/I paid for. All because of Cobh TC cockups.....
I have heard people ask why not a municipal marina... would love it... but lets not forger Kilrush is one as such...but they got massive Govn fundings for this years ago when the then Min. for the Marine Brenan Daly was in charge... a local Kilrush man I think..... but gather no funding has or will be on cards for along time into the future. Think they were even mini tribunals on how those that were funded ..... but all policitians seem to have come out clean....LOL.... Cahirciveen got one too... wasn't there a Minister O'Donoghue from that part or world...Kenmare....ish. Hummmmm

Location... up river locations like you mention would be very nice, be it West of deep water quay to whitepoint... but as you go mroe West you open up more to the dreaded East and South Easterlies so a full breakwater would have to be put in. Not impossible but vert costly. With this don't think one would survive a winter not too mind boats on it. A big enough sea can build from there to Whitepoint after a few days of stong easterlies... long fetch up harbour right from Aghada for it to build.
A permanent breakwater would do no problem but wonder who would be willing to fund that....
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:43 pm

Second public consultation for the R624 (Fota road) upgrade to Cobh took place today in the Sheraton, Fota Island.

Yours truly drove a long way to get there and has the documents which he will scan tomorrow, as well as some more information about the scheme.
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby THE_Chris » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:29 pm

Sorry for the delay (busy!) but heres the R624 Fota road documentation. I took photos of it and popped it into a zip file.

Its too big for upload to Archiseek, so I've had to put it on Sendspace.

Leftclick on this, then leftclick on the link at the bottom. The site is clean, I use it often.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/muwjss

If it grumbles, try again later.


If the link expires, post here and I'll reupload.


Comments on the alignment and issues related to it??
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Re: what's going up in Cobh

Postby Energy Recruitm » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:43 pm

in the old train station by the deep water quay. Of the 6 million Irish emigrants fleeing thee famine and poverty in Ireland from around 1850, 2.5 million left from Cobh including Annie Moore and her brothers (see picture), the then President of Ireland, Mary Robinson, unveiled a bronze statue featuring Annie, Phillip and Anthony at the Deepwater Quay, Cobh, on February 8, 1993. Natives of Cork city, they left Cobh from the Deepwater Quay on December 20, 1891. They arrived at Ellis Island on New Year's Day 1892, it was her 15th birthday! They were the first to be processed by Ellis Island which was newly opened.i They then joined their parents and older brother in Brooklyn, New York, who had emigrated two years previously.
The great ocean liners including those which came to a tragic end, e.g. the Titanic and the Lusitania, are also an integral part of the history of Cobh and are featured in the museums.
Cobh Museum in the old Scots Church on the High Road in Cobh. A collection of marine paintings, models and photographs and a museum of the business and social life of Cobh as a naval town.
Irish Museums & Heritage Centres on Cobh
Megalithomania.com Cork has no entry for sites on the Great Island I think? Off the top of my head ...

Belvelly castle (a square - keep? tower) near bridge between Fota and the Great Island.
Martello towers - near train line, by the ara, past old NET/IFI factory.
Belvelly martello tower
Martello tower at back of island, by the sea again, probably with view of Belvelly.
Signal tower on top of hill in woods over towards East ferry.
Lime kiln beside road on back of island - Ashgrove townland?
Ring fort nearish Walterstown. Fields off road.
Old well with steps down, close by old cottage. Ashgrove, field side of ditch beside Noel's bohereen.
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