cork docklands

Re: cork docklands

Postby theblimp » Wed May 02, 2007 8:26 am

Looks ok, but .... where that new internal marina is showing by PuC, isn't that where there's a bloody big power station at the moment? Plus can you really see any of the Cork Developers digging up and flooding development land .... I'd love to see it, but history would tend to indicate that they'll max out all the available land
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Wed May 02, 2007 8:47 am

CasaNova wrote:
kite wrote:
What does 'maximise the potential of the river to the city' entail? The design looks nice



Ah the "River" that ignored stretch or waterways that defines Cork city ignored by planners and developers alike.
See Merchants Quay and North Main St Shopping centres,Port of Cork Buildings behind the custom house falling down as their yards are used as a car park.No pavements,Seating,Trees at Georges Quay and Batchelors Quay amongst others,Cars parked right up to the Quay at the School of Commerce,dilapadated lighting at Patricks bridge,rotten balustrading and handrails,
The potential for Cork is the south facing stretch in front of the Clarion Hotel etc. compared to the mess in front of the Lapps Quay development.

Should we send the councillors on a few junkets to Bruge,Amsterdam or Hamburg to show them how a river(s) through a city centre works ?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Praxiteles » Wed May 02, 2007 9:19 am

Spinal Tap wrote:
CasaNova wrote:

Ah the "River" that ignored stretch or waterways that defines Cork city ignored by planners and developers alike.
See Merchants Quay and North Main St Shopping centres,Port of Cork Buildings behind the custom house falling down as their yards are used as a car park.No pavements,Seating,Trees at Georges Quay and Batchelors Quay amongst others,Cars parked right up to the Quay at the School of Commerce,dilapadated lighting at Patricks bridge,rotten balustrading and handrails,
The potential for Cork is the south facing stretch in front of the Clarion Hotel etc. compared to the mess in front of the Lapps Quay development.

Should we send the councillors on a few junkets to Bruge,Amsterdam or Hamburg to show them how a river(s) through a city centre works ?


I fear that would not be economic expenditure. Some are beyond instruction of even the most basic kind!
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Thu May 03, 2007 10:38 am

Northgate Vehicle Hire (UK) were granted cinditional permission by CCC for
a) demolition of existing structure and
b) a 3 yr temporary planning permission for construction of storage building and renovation of existing offices at the former Maxol storage facility, Centre Park Road, Cork City, with change of use from storage to van hire depot.

Anyone any thoughts as to why this would be granted? I'm not against it, just curious as to why a temporary planning permission would be given for the construction of a building.

And also why it would be granted if the CCC want to get started on the redevelopment of the area with landmark buildings etc. Maybe the building is only small, I dont know.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Thu May 03, 2007 12:33 pm

Pug wrote:Northgate Vehicle Hire (UK) were granted cinditional permission by CCC for
a) demolition of existing structure and
b) a 3 yr temporary planning permission for construction of storage building and renovation of existing offices at the former Maxol storage facility, Centre Park Road, Cork City, with change of use from storage to van hire depot.

Anyone any thoughts as to why this would be granted? I'm not against it, just curious as to why a temporary planning permission would be given for the construction of a building.

And also why it would be granted if the CCC want to get started on the redevelopment of the area with landmark buildings etc. Maybe the building is only small, I dont know.



I am as confused by this permission as you seem to be Pug.
Joe Gavin made sure that “low value” businesses such as windscreen shops, car alarm installers etc moved from Albert Quay to encourage redevelopment of the area.
Seems strange that he would expect submissions for blue chip development from stakeholders in the vicinity of what in effect is a service yard.
More dockland delays perhaps?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Fri May 04, 2007 7:09 am

Address by Joe Gavin, Cork City Manager at Cork Chamber of Commerce breakfast briefing, 26th April, 2007

The Docklands
The Docklands comprises 400 acres of land with four kilometres of waterfront all within a 20 minute walk from City Hall. The overall vision for the regenerated Docklands was set out in the Docklands Strategy Study commissioned by the Council. It proposed a vibrant mixed use quarter developed to the highest standards and to be in effect an easterly extension of the city centre. There is potential for seven million sq.ft. of non residential development and for 10,000 units of residential development. This would provide for a resident population of 20,000 and provide for 25,000 jobs.
Since the strategic vision was launched in 2002, significant interest has been generated in the Docklands area.
This interest has seen property values in the Docklands rocket in the past five years. Development sites have been assembled by the private sector and property owners are actively looking at ways of developing their lands.
I set up a team which is headed up by Pat Ledwidge, Director of Services, to specifically facilitate and support the redevelopment of the Docklands. Pat and his team have been working in close consultation with all stakeholders in preparing a masterplan and in identifying measures which need to be taken. A committee of City Council has been established to help with policy development.
Achievements to date include:
• Local Area Plans
The North Docks Local Area Plan was completed in late 2005.
• Cork Docklands Economic Study
The Cork Docklands Economic Study was completed in December 2006. It provides an overview of the economic potential of the Cork Docklands and indicates how this project will assist in the achievement of local, regional and national objectives. This study also identifies targets for Foreign Direct Investment and other opportunities in the residential, commercial and tourism/leisure areas.
• Showgrounds C.P.O.
The C.P.O. on the Cork Showgrounds and adjacent lands was confirmed by An Bord Pleanála on February 10th, 2007. The City Council will commence detailed planning of Marina Park shortly and plan to take possession of these lands in late 2007.
• Contaminated Lands Study
The study has now been completed. The contamination levels are such that they can be dealt with in a reasonable manner.
• Business and Implementation Plan
One of the Economic Study recommendations was the preparation of a Business and Implementation Plan for Docklands. Work on this plan has commenced and Deloitte has been appointed to assist in its preparation.
• Stakeholders
A number of Stakeholder groups have been established over the past year. These consist of:
• Major Landowners/Developers
• General Stakeholders
• Publicly funded Service Providers
• Arts and Culture Interest
In addition contact is maintained with Government Departments and Public Agencies.
• Cork Docklands National Forum
An Taoiseach recently announced the establishment of the Cork Docklands National Forum. This body will co-ordinate responses at Government Department level to issues arising from the development of the Cork Docklands and support Cork City Council in the implementation of its plans.
This approach was recommended in the Cork Docklands Economic Study.
• Funding
The process of identifying key projects that will benefit from funding by the National Development Plan 2006-2013 has commenced. Funding needs will be clarified when the South Dock Local Area Plan is published.
The priority projects to be funded by the Gateway Fund will be set out once the relevant procedures are issued by the Department of Environment, Heritage & Local Government.
• Designation
In October 2006 the European Union allowed the application of State Aid to companies setting up in Cork Docklands following a submission by the Irish Government which was based on a proposal prepared by Cork City Council.
This may apply to all companies up to the end of 2008 and to small and medium size enterprises (less than 250 employees) to the end of 2013.
• Tidal Flooding Study – Lee Catchment Flood Risk and Management Study (Lee CFRAM)
This study is progressing and the consultants have been focusing on the issues for Docklands.
• Water Street Bridge
A feasibility study has been prepared for Water Street Bridge.
The Local Area Plan for the South Docklands will be ready for publication next month. This will set out clear guidelines for the nature of development to be permitted and will identify public infrastructure requirements including social infrastructure such as schools. This plan will indicate the need for two new bridges – one at Water Street and the second at the Skew Bridge connecting the Docklands to Lower Glanmire Road. We have taken a policy decision that both bridges will be opening bridges to ensure that the maritime access to the heart of the city continues. Future maritime traffic, as the main port activities relocate, may be leisure related but it is considered important that the harbour which adds so much to the heritage and character of Cork is maintained intact.
New development in the Docklands area to date include the Clarion Hotel and office development at Lapp’s Quay, the Webworks at Albert Quay and office development on Monahan Road which houses CITCO. While there is need to provide significant infrastructure to service the regeneration of the Docklands there are large areas available for immediate development fully serviced with infrastructure. These lands include the former timber yard at Water Street which has planning permission for 212 apartments.
They include Horgan’s Quay and Kent Station where there is potential for significant residential and mixed development. At Albert Quay there are significant sites which can be immediately developed.
As we move into the heart of the Docklands there are again large tracts which can be developed and need not wait for the provision of further infrastructure.
At the eastern end of the Docklands in the vicinity of Páirc Uí Chaoimh there are 30 acres of land. Two ownerships are involved. They have come together in a joint venture and have a target of lodging a planning application for development by July. Their development proposals include for office, residential and retail development and a 200 bedroom hotel.
The development planned extends to 2.3 million sq.ft. and will represent the single largest development in the city. They plan to commence construction work once planning permission is secured. This joint venture project involving Howard Holdings and Tedcastles is about showing initiative, vision, creativity, risk-taking and making things happen. The City Council has plans to develop the adjacent Showgrounds comprising 22 acres into Marina Park which will be a major recreation resource for the entire city.
A number of particular activities in the Docklands will require to be relocated in the future if the full potential of the Docklands is to be realised. These include 3 SEVESO sites. It is the intention of the City Council to seek the application of a special tax incentive package to encourage and facilitate the re-location of these activities.
Attracting third-level educational establishments to the Docklands is regarded as important and again the City Council will seek support from Government either by way of direct funding or tax incentive to encourage such development.
In addition to the development of the Showgrounds we see the provision of a new bridge as being an important catalyst for Docklands regeneration. We would like to see major private sector involvement and funding on the bridge project to which we will give high priority.
The vast bulk of land in the Docklands is owned by the private sector and as such private sector investment is central to the development of the Docklands.
These lands are held by a small number of owners and it is important that there should be co-operation between them to ensure co-ordinated development. I am very pleased with the level of involvement and co-operation which has been shown by all of the land owners so far.
The City Council for its part has set out a clear planning framework, it has commissioned various studies which will be available to developers, it will secure the provision of necessary public infrastructure and it will champion and support the Docklands regeneration. As a planning authority, a housing authority, a roads authority and a sanitary authority the City Council is in a position to contribute in a major way to the successful redevelopment of Cork’s Docklands.
The involvement of the I.D.A. and Enterprise Ireland will be critical in assisting with the attraction of employment opportunities to the Docklands to meet the target of 25,000 jobs.
Over the past five years we have seen the centre of our city transformed. Over the next five years the regeneration of our Docklands will take centre stage. This most exciting project will take ten to fifteen years to complete and will require the full support of the City Council, the Private Sector, the Government and relevant State Departments and Agencies.
We can look forward with confidence to a new era of development in the life of the city as we roll out the regeneration of our Docklands.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Fri May 11, 2007 9:11 am

11 May 2007

Origin Enterprises set to submit docklands redevelopment plan

By Niamh Hennessy
A MULTI-million euro plan for a major retail and residential development in a key location on Cork city’s docklands will soon be submitted to Cork City Council.


Origin Enterprises, a subsidiary of convenience food group IAWS, owns a 30-acre site worth an estimated €180 million on the south-side of the docklands. The area in question is about twice the size of the Dundrum shopping centre in Dublin.

By August the company will have submitted plans for the development of a key location — the frontage of its animal feed company R&H Hall — on Albert Road Origin chief executive Tom O’Mahony confirmed last night. He said the plans are for a mixture of residential and retail development.

“We are working very closely with Cork City Council who have been wonderful in helping to push the docklands development forward.

“To drive the development on we are waiting for the publication of the Local Area Plan, which will determine everything we need to know.”

Last year Origin submitted a master plan to Cork City Council, outlining the company’s vision for the docklands. They are also working closely on developments with architects and other landowners.

Once they have seen the South Docs Local Area Plan (LAP), Origin will make a decision about the relocation of their business, which they say is key to driving the project on.

“We would certainly have a target of relocating our activities over a three to five year period,” said Mr O’Mahony.

The delayed South Docks LAP was expected to come before Cork City Council on Monday but officials have decided to wait until after the General Election for its publication.

The South Docks LAP is a crucial part of the overall docklands redevelopment and will include residential, commercial and educational aspects.

It includes the stretch of docklands from the Atlantic Pond to Albert Street.

Last week IAWS listed its Origin subsidiary on the IEX market in Dublin and the AIM in London.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby demolition man » Sun May 13, 2007 11:33 pm

[ATTACH]4818[/ATTACH]

Proposed water street bridge.I Like it alot.Think its a unique looking design should get the go ahead.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby THE_Chris » Mon May 14, 2007 11:34 am

I presume thats a raising bridge or the boat is trapped :D

TBH Im not keen on it. Looks like a giant seagull.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Mon May 14, 2007 11:49 am

THE_Chris wrote:I presume thats a raising bridge or the boat is trapped :D

TBH Im not keen on it. Looks like a giant seagull.



It looks like its a rotating both sides on those black shaped supports on either side above the waterline.
Its poor enough IMO.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby PVC King » Mon May 14, 2007 1:07 pm

It looks like something from the Early Learning Centre :o
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Re: cork docklands

Postby dkebab » Mon May 14, 2007 4:42 pm

Jesus, it is just desperate.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby CasaNova » Mon May 14, 2007 4:47 pm

Looks like it has collapsed
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Aidan » Mon May 14, 2007 5:27 pm

Surely its just a design study/provocative image just to attract attention, and they'd have to get an architect to design the actual bridge?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Mon May 14, 2007 11:38 pm

PVC King wrote:It looks like something from the Early Learning Centre :o


:rolleyes: Just Joe Gavin going off on a solo run AGAIN, Councillors have told him that we do not want access to the city restricted. Will he listen?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Tue May 15, 2007 10:27 am

kite wrote::rolleyes: Just Joe Gavin going off on a solo run AGAIN, Councillors have told him that we do not want access to the city restricted. Will he listen?


to be fair i dont think he wants it restricted, isnt the plan that the bridge be moveable / raisable to allow access to the harbour
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Re: cork docklands

Postby THE_Chris » Tue May 15, 2007 10:36 am

You gotta have a new bridge there somewhere...... but it has to be risable or rotating etc. Not a huge number of ships come up there anyway, but they have to keep the waterway open in this way.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby samuel j » Tue May 15, 2007 11:48 am

THE_Chris wrote:You gotta have a new bridge there somewhere...... but it has to be risable or rotating etc. Not a huge number of ships come up there anyway, but they have to keep the waterway open in this way.

Once Port of Cork, move essentially all commercial traffic will move to Ringaskiddy, vessels loading/discharging will not need to go upriver so far.

However one still may get smaller Cruise vessels, courtesy visits by Naval vessels, training ships etc. so
would think that there will always be some need to gain access to these section of quay where one has
deep/usuable berths.

Take the Toll Bridge in Dublin, the bulk of traffic is down river on Alexandra Road etc. but you still do see a small amount of traffic going upriver, be they masted pleasure craft or anything with the airdraught that neccessiates a bridge lift.

In longterm for the city, albeit for more Tourism related traffic it would be unwise to have the Cork upriver quays un-navigable.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Spinal Tap » Tue May 15, 2007 12:08 pm

samuel j wrote:Once Port of Cork, move essentially all commercial traffic will move to Ringaskiddy, vessels loading/discharging will not need to go upriver so far.

However one still may get smaller Cruise vessels, courtesy visits by Naval vessels, training ships etc. so
would think that there will always be some need to gain access to these section of quay where one has
deep/usuable berths.

Take the Toll Bridge in Dublin, the bulk of traffic is down river on Alexandra Road etc. but you still do see a small amount of traffic going upriver, be they masted pleasure craft or anything with the airdraught that neccessiates a bridge lift.

In longterm for the city, albeit for more Tourism related traffic it would be unwise to have the Cork upriver quays un-navigable.



Well the can only go as far as the Custom House anyway.

Any plans to replace the Bruian Boru & Clontarf WW2 temporary bridges with their rotting superstructure.

They are looking really bad these days.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby THE_Chris » Tue May 15, 2007 1:22 pm

Yeah I hate those, need to be fixed.

Were they only temporary? Whats the story behind them?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby samuel j » Tue May 15, 2007 1:54 pm

Spinal Tap wrote:Well the can only go as far as the Custom House anyway.


True, you probably notice (not many mind) occasional courtesy visits by foreign navies, odd small cruise liner and Tall Ships of various nationalities, be they training ships or partial cruises, usually berth on Custom house quays or as close to the city as possible. Many of these types of craft are open to the public for visits/tours so it is really a decision as to whether Cork in general wants to keep this facilty or whether the limited amout of tourism related tonnage if I can call it that, warrants the expense and maintenance of a swing or lift bridge arrangement.

What you won't see is the Rig supply vessel or bulk cargo vessels are we do now and the associated trucks loading/discharging once all moves to Ringsakiddy.

Many ports around the world have kept the option though of being able to bring lets say scenic vessels
close to town but as I say its at a cost and ongoing maintenance.

The state of the Bridges you mention would give one concern as to how we might see any new swing/lift bridge in 50 years.....
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Re: cork docklands

Postby THE_Chris » Tue May 15, 2007 2:21 pm

I think they should keep the touristy boat visits. Is cool to visit a ship there occasionally, and is nice to see various navy ships right next to the road.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby PTB » Wed May 16, 2007 8:23 pm

Yeah, I remember when a dutch submarine pulled up there about 18 months ago. I asked if I could board and have a look around, but to no avail.

Does that bridge look like a Shinto gate after collapsing to anyone?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby samuel j » Wed May 16, 2007 9:25 pm

PTB wrote:Yeah, I remember when a dutch submarine pulled up there about 18 months ago. I asked if I could board and have a look around, but to no avail.

Does that bridge look like a Shinto gate after collapsing to anyone?

It does......:D

Sub - probably above top secret.......:D :D or so they want to believe... nah maybe just their tea time...:p
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Tue May 29, 2007 10:10 am

As per the Examiner, more movement on the Docklands, Port of Cork expect to lodge an application to redevelop Ringaskiddy very soon and move their entire Tivoli operation down there. I imagine local residents will observe closely. This will free up 35 acres at Tivoli.

This is to add to the plans by IAWS to lodge an application for the riverfront at the R&H Hall site in/around August and Howard Holdings expect to lodge an application for a site adjacent to Pairc Ui Chaoimh over the summer as well.

The burst of applications would lead one to believe that these developers/parties have seen the final South docks Masterplan. This was due to be shown to councillors for approval but it was delayed until the election was over and probably will be further delayed until the new councillors to replace the TD's are appointed - (go on democracy, looking forward to see which councillors are appointed that we didnt get a chance to vote for) so it shouldnt take that long. I might be cynical but I expect when its published, the general public will be the final group of people to lay eyes on it.
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