cork docklands

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby kite » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:40 pm

[quote="kite"]:eek: Tensions have arisen since Christmas between city management and major stakeholders in the docklands area due to the complete lack of movement there over the past years.
Stakeholders have gone over the heads of city management in recent weeks with approaches to Government members to have the development in the area fast tracked, this along with discontented rumblings in the local press has forced city management to assure stakeholders that “when”? the CPO is confirmed on the Showgrounds the city will be in a position to plough ahead with this jewel in Cork’s crown.
City Hall are desperate to ensure that the planning of the docklands does not fall out of their control.
QUOTE] 30/1/07


:) Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern is to announce tonight in the Rochestown Park Hotel that Cork Docklands redevelopment is to be elevated to a "National Project" status.
A national steering forum is to be set up to kickstart the 2 billion development of the area.
Hopefully after 7 years of inaction by Cork City Councillors things will finally happen in the docklands.
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:30 pm

Takes Dublin to sort Cork out doesn't it ;)
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby Pug » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:43 pm

kite wrote:
:) Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern is to announce tonight in the Rochestown Park Hotel that Cork Docklands redevelopment is to be elevated to a "National Project" status.

A national steering forum is to be set up to kickstart the 2 billion development of the area.

Hopefully after 7 years of inaction by Cork City Councillors things will finally happen in the docklands.


1. Cork docklands is now a National Project Status - firstly, so what. Secondly, why did it take so long to do something about it.

2. A national steering forum is to be set up. I thought we already had a Cork Docklands project team.

I'll believe it when it happens.
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby kite » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:48 pm

[quote="Paul Clerkin"]Takes Dublin to sort Cork out doesn't it ]


At least somebody is willing to try and start the Docklands redevelopment in Cork.
Hats off to Joe Gavin, he tried and tried over the past 6 years to drag the Cork mafia and indifferent councilors to a point where we could get moving on the project but with little success.
:cool: The major stakeholders in the area were right to go over Cork’s head and appeal to central Government, BEFORE it’s too late.

ps. any chance of a few bob from Dublin towards the new consultants being hired by the CAA to see how they could loose more than the 5.8 million they lost in 2006??:eek:
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby jdivision » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:07 pm

National Project Status = FF election stunt = reannounce same project over and over again
jdivision
Senior Member
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:34 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby kite » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:31 pm

Pug wrote:1. Cork docklands is now a National Project Status - firstly, so what. Secondly, why did it take so long to do something about it.

2. A national steering forum is to be set up. I thought we already had a Cork Docklands project team.

I'll believe it when it happens.


On (1) It took so long because some in Government thought that Cork Councillors and officials could handle the project ( now they realise that they were wrong)

(2) Cork has a docklands project team, they travel the globe each year to look at best practice in foregin designs (they are experts in 5 star hotels if nothing else)

Quote, "I'll believe it when it happens" I share your concerns:o
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby The Glass eye » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:15 am

It takes money to sort Dublin out
As it would with any project the scale of cork dockands
And the purse is not kept down south:rolleyes:
Just a lot of false promises, but no infrustucture to facilitate development.
Its just a spade for cork and we dig and fall behind:(
The Glass eye
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 4:10 am
Location: from cork live edinburgh

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby corcaighboy » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:35 am

Cork only has itself to blame. No point in pointing the finger at everyone else and blaming them for our multiple cock-ups and our associated chip on the shoulder. We have a city and county council that is nothing more than a talking shop and we elect TDs who tend to disappoint. Who is to blame for that? Surely not Dublin!
corcaighboy
Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:21 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby browser » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:22 pm

corcaighboy wrote:Cork only has itself to blame. No point in pointing the finger at everyone else and blaming them for our multiple cock-ups and our associated chip on the shoulder. We have a city and county council that is nothing more than a talking shop and we elect TDs who tend to disappoint. Who is to blame for that? Surely not Dublin!


I wouldn't agree entirely but certainly the standard of Cork TD is shocking. Of the 10 city TDs, I'd only rate Dan Boyle and Michael Martin as national politicians - and only one of them seems to be performing. The others make me cringe when I hear them in the Dail. They can't be the best advocates for Cork save for getting that troublesome fence at no. 57 fixed. Of the other city candidates this time out, you could possibly add Deirdre Clune and Michael McGrath (of the candidates I know of) as being at least half impressive.

If only we had more decent TDs we'd probably have a lot more seats at cabinet which in turn would help prevent Cork from being being urinated upon from on high as Cork has been for the last 10 yrs.
browser
Member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:45 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:11 pm

[quote="Paul Clerkin"]Takes Dublin to sort Cork out doesn't it ]


Wouldn't Dublin be better off sorting Dublin out... and since when did the National Government come to represent Dublin!

Dublin is an embarrassment as a capital city.
mickeydocs
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: Developments in Cork

Postby mickeydocs » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:39 pm

Bertie has made the Docklands a national project status. Quick straw poll - Does anyone think it will make a difference?


A good question would be how does this national project status for the docklands affect Minister Martin's 'dream' for developing Cork Harbour?
Anybody agree that this new status has quite a bit to do with the facts that the natives are getting very annoyed with the lack of impetus and funding coming from our central government?
mickeydocs
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:21 pm

Nat Ross proposal for 104 pts and 3567 sqm of bus/technology space was refused but its the reason for the refusal is interesting - the Health and Safety Authority made a submission that the Gouldings Chemical plant was a danger to human health (should a major accident occur)

Bord Pleanala stated that the Seveso issue, now that the Gouldings Premises is covered by relevant regulations, has the potential to have serious consequences for the realisation of the City Council’s plans for the area. This is a matter that can only be resolved at local level between the City Council and the HSA in their preparation of generic land use planning advice in relation to the Gouldings Plant.

looks like even more delays
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:18 pm

Progress Report on Cork Docklands.

1. Business and Implementation Plan

The need for a Business and Implementation Plan was identified in the Cork Docklands Economic Study.
The BIP is the next step in the process of implementation of the Docklands LAP. It will bring together the various elements of the project under three themes of Product, Planning and Infrastructure. The BIP will focus on the integration of the above issues into a single document and will provide a “roadmap” for the implementation of the project in conjunction with the main stakeholders. It will, along with dealing with the traditional areas for the City Council of planning framework and infrastructure provision, focus on the product issues including such areas as product development, funding and finance, marketing and promotion.

Consultants are being engaged through a public tender process to assist the Docklands Directorate in the preparation of the Plan. Ten consortia submitted tenders and this has been short-listed to three which will be interviewed on April 2nd next,
The preparation of the plan will commence in mid-April and should be complete by mid July.

2. Showgrounds C.P.O.

The CPO on the Cork Showgrounds and the adjacent land was confirmed by An Bord Pleanala on February 10th 2007. Notice of the making of a Confirmation Order was served on the interested parties on March 1st 2007. There are now 8 weeks from March 1st within which a judicial review can be sought by interested parties.
A Notice to Treat can then be served. This requires the person on whom it is served to state, within a month, their interest in the land and details of the compensation required. If arbitration is required, compensation is fixed as at the date of the Notice to Treat.

3. Contaminated Lands Study


The study has now been completed in early 2007. The study indicates low levels of contamination throughout substantial areas of the docklands with a small number of “hot spots” identified. However, they are not a significant problem and the contamination levels are such that they can be dealt with in a reasonable manner.
The report will be made available to the landowners and developers.
[B]
[B]4. Funding
[/B][/B]

The process of identifying key projects that will benefit from funding by the National Development Plan 2006-2013 has commenced. Funding needs will be clarified when the South Dock Local Area Plan is published.
The priority projects to be funded by the Gateways Fund will be set out once the relevant procedures are issued by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

5. Tidal Flooding Study- Lee Catchment Flood Risk and Management Study
This study is progressing and the consultants have been focusing on the issues for docklands. They recently completed a Relative Impact Analysis which demonstrates that the protection of docklands by raising levels on the perimeter does not adversely impact areas in the City. The next analysis which is due in the next month or so is to give advice on the levels to which the perimeter should be raised to afford a level of protection from a surge tide and sea level rise in accordance with best practice.

6. Cork Docklands National Forum

The Taoiseach recently announced the establishment of the Cork Docklands National Forum. It is anticipated that this body will co-ordinate responses at Government Department level to issues arising from the development of the Cork Docklands.
This approach was a recommendation made in the Cork Docklands Economic Study.

7. North Docks Local Area Plan

A meeting has been organized between the Policy Section of the Planning and Development Directorate, the Docklands Directorate and the owner of two areas of land zoned for the purpose of providing pocket parks in the North Docks area with a view to progressing the matter of adequate public open space provision in the area.

8. Cork Docklands Economic Study

The Cork Docklands Economic Study is currently being prepared for printing and will be widely available in April.

9. Water Supply Study

The Water Dept is preparing a brief to undertake a preliminary report for the supply of water to the Docklands. Delays have arisen from the recent change in procurement of consultants. It is expected that the consultants will be appointed by August 2007.

10. Planning Decisions

The first step in the delivery of the North Docks Plan was marked in December 2006 by the announcement of the grant of permission for the Water Street development following a grant of permission by Cork City Council in April 2005 and a lengthy appeal process which included an oral hearing. The permitted development includes for approx 211 apartments as well as a number of retail units, crèche the re-use of the Port of Cork building for offices a quayside amenity area and a public plaza.
More recently planning permission was refused for an application by Manor Park Homes on the eastren portion of the Horgan’s Quay site. Permission had been sought for the construction of 276 no, residential units, 8 no. retail units, 2 no. commercial units, 3 showroom units, a crèche facility, and a temporary access road to serve a future railway concourse. Permission was reused by Cork City Council given the lack of a comprehensive approach by the applicants / landowners to the redevelopment of the entire strategic Kent Station/Horgan’s Quay lands as well as serious design issues which could not be rectified under this application. The main deficiencies of the application were outlined in earlier posts.
The principle of a phased redevelopment of the Horgan’s Quay / Kent Station lands was fully supported by the planning authority. However in any possible reapplication it was stated that the onus would be on the applicants, in conjunction with the landowners, to submit an urban design masterplan for the entire Kent Station/Horgan’s Quay landholding. In addition the key urban design issues referred to above would be required to be resolved in a manner acceptable to the planning authority.
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby jungle » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:22 pm

There could be an interesting situation developing in Cork Docklands as a result of Doyle Groups possible takeover of Irish Continental.

To fund the bid, Doyle Group would have to either sell their land holdings in Cork Port or use it as collateral for a loan. In the first scenario, this could see substantial development land (valued at 250million) getting released in the port area.
jungle
Member
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:11 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby Pug » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:02 am

jungle wrote:There could be an interesting situation developing in Cork Docklands as a result of Doyle Groups possible takeover of Irish Continental.

To fund the bid, Doyle Group would have to either sell their land holdings in Cork Port or use it as collateral for a loan. In the first scenario, this could see substantial development land (valued at 250million) getting released in the port area.


kite and jungle, thats brill info. Maybe you could email the City Council to let them know!!
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby browser » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:42 am

Thanks for that Kite.

One issue you might clarify is the status of the tax breaks. These were approved in principle by Brussels, they have obviously been promulgated amongst the developers - I remember Greg Coughlan of Howard being quoted in the paper talking about adequacy or otherwise of the tax proposals - but I've never seen details of them, nor any mention of when they'll be implemented.

We got EU clearance in October 2006 for tax breaks so why weren't proposals in the December Budget or the Feb 2007 Finance Bill? I did disturbingly see an article by the Head of The Docklands project in City Hall in an IE "Pullout" on the Docklands last Jan which welcomed the EU approval and said that CCC would NOW start putting together proposals on same to Government (in other words, 3 months after EU approval CCC were now "starting" to put together proposals). Is CCC responsible for the delay or is it Government?
browser
Member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:45 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:57 pm

[quote="browser"]Thanks for that Kite.

One issue you might clarify is the status of the tax breaks. These were approved in principle by Brussels, they have obviously been promulgated amongst the developers - I remember Greg Coughlan of Howard being quoted in the paper talking about adequacy or otherwise of the tax proposals - but I've never seen details of them, nor any mention of when they'll be implemented.

QUOTE]



Sorry I don’t know the answer to that one browser, I doubt if CCC would have an answer either as this whole docklands development debate is going on as long as the Northern peace talks (Good Friday agreement)
Councillors seem to be happy to drag this out as it allows more time for them to junket their lives away visiting any city in Europe to see docklands development in action as long as the hotels are up to scratch.
The issue of the Port of Cork dragging their feet on their relocation to Ringaskiddy until their begging bowel is full thus adding to the delay in the Docklands redevelopment took a turn for the worst this week when Workers Party / Democratic Left / New Agenda / Labour Party Councillor John Kelleher got the nod to take a place on the POC board joining that other political heavyweight Tim (it will pass some time for me) Falvey.
The City Manager really needs to loose patience on this one and kick these guys into action before it’s too late.
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:56 am

jungle wrote:There could be an interesting situation developing in Cork Docklands as a result of Doyle Groups possible takeover of Irish Continental.

To fund the bid, Doyle Group would have to either sell their land holdings in Cork Port or use it as collateral for a loan. In the first scenario, this could see substantial development land (valued at 250million) getting released in the port area.


The Doyle Group have confirmed that they have began the examination of the ferry company books with a view a takeover bid.
The review began at close of business Friday and is expected to last 4 weeks.
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby Aidan » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:35 am

Several pieces in The Examiner on 27/4/07 on the docklands. Theres a mention of the 2 new bridges to be included in the South Docklands strategy (due to be published next month), and this piece;

"A MAMMOTH hotel, office, retail and residential development, three times bigger than Croke Park, will Be the largest construction project of its kind ever under taken in Cork once planning permission is secured.The docklands development plans, which include a 200-bedroomed hotel, will be submitted in July for approval.

The docklands has potential for seven million sq ft of non-residential development and for 10,000 units of residential development providing for a resident population of 20,000 and 25,000 jobs. The ambitious project, earmarked for a docklands site adjacent to Pairc Ui Chaoimh, is a joint venture proposal between property developers Howard Holdings and Tedcastle Group landowners.

The entire development covers 2.3 million sq ft a size equal to three times that of the GAA's Croke Park in Dublin."

Anybody got pics or a map?

How I miss Lexington ...
Aidan
Member
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:23 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby THE_Chris » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:37 pm

Original plans :rolleyes:

Come on lads, conference centre.
THE_Chris
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:56 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby d_d_dallas » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:37 pm

Presumably it's the attached, taken from

http://www.howardpropertyplc.com/hh/index2.htm
d_d_dallas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: cork docklands

Postby malec » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:43 pm

Bigger version:

Image
malec
Member
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:39 am

[quote="Aidan"]Several pieces in The Examiner on 27/4/07 on the docklands. Theres a mention of the 2 new bridges to be included in the South Docklands strategy (due to be published next month), and this piece]

Joe Gavin going off on a solo run again, Councillors have told the Manager that they will not support bridges (even swing bridges etc) in the lower river as they want to maximize the potential of the river to the city.
Hope this will not end up being another spanner in the works that will cause a delay?
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby CasaNova » Tue May 01, 2007 10:53 pm

kite wrote:
Aidan wrote:Several pieces in The Examiner on 27/4/07 on the docklands. Theres a mention of the 2 new bridges to be included in the South Docklands strategy (due to be published next month), and this piece]

Joe Gavin going off on a solo run again, Councillors have told the Manager that they will not support bridges (even swing bridges etc) in the lower river as they want to maximize the potential of the river to the city.
Hope this will not end up being another spanner in the works that will cause a delay?


What does 'maximise the potential of the river to the city' entail? The design looks nice
CasaNova
Member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: cork docklands

Postby kite » Wed May 02, 2007 7:13 am

CasaNova wrote:
kite wrote:
What does 'maximise the potential of the river to the city' entail? The design looks nice


Councillors are of the opinion that further restrictions to ships entering the city proper should not be put in place.(not even swing bridges etc.)
kite
Senior Member
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland