Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:04 pm

Seamus O'G wrote:Mr O'Gara probably wanted to have a bit of a dig at "Dublin 4", missed marginally.

Missed marginally? Is that because the park is in D6? :)

(The locals won't tell you that- if I ever see an address listed as 'Leeson Park, Dublin 6' [which is the correct one] I'll eat my hat.)
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby SeamusOG » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:36 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Missed marginally? Is that because the park is in D6? :)

(The locals won't tell you that- if I ever see an address listed as 'Leeson Park, Dublin 6' [which is the correct one] I'll eat my hat.)


Well in this case, it actually is within an ass's roar of Dublin 4. A couple of hundred metres or so?

If he was really smart, he'd have targeted Sandymount Green. From my experience of the area, he'd have been fighting off the locals trying to form a consortium to back him.:D
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby alonso » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:10 pm

What I love is the way the valuation was determined by a typo in a Michael "I meant a hundred thousand" McDowell press release!

This story will make a half-decent docu-soap someday
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:40 pm

Anyone there for the last of the marble and granite tiles? Last of the marble and granite tiles, five for fifty! Howya love, what can I get ya? A few slivers of Kilkenny marble? Yeah, yeah, goes lovely with the maple floorboards. Anything else? A few bags of gravel for the driveway?

Last of the marble and granite tiles... any takers?

Court orders businessman to cease trade in Dartmouth park

Dublin City Council has taken court action in an attempt to stop Noel O'Gara's bid to run a tile sales business in Dartmouth Square Park, Dublin.

Circuit Court president Mr Justice Matthew Deery yesterday granted the local authority a temporary injunction restraining Mr O'Gara from running any business in the park that he bought for €10,000 in 2005.

The Athlone businessman has put the two-acre park up for sale with an asking price of €100 million but has stated he would like to turn it into a car park and apartment complex.

Carol O'Farrell, counsel for the city council, told the court yesterday the park was the subject of a High Court order restraining its unauthorised use as a car park.

Ms O'Farrell said Mr O'Gara was now selling granite and marble tiles from a caravan in the park and there had been recent widespread publicity about this and his having put the park up for sale.

Mr Justice Deery granted the council an ex parte interim injunction restraining Mr O'Gara and his company, Marble and Granite Tiles Ltd, from making an unauthorised use of the park for the advertisement, display, sale or exposure for sale of any goods or for the purpose of any trade or business.

Mr O'Gara, who has been for months embroiled in a high-profile row with the city council over the park and its potential use, was not in court yesterday.

The park is zoned as an amenity and open space area and the city council has placed a compulsory purchase order on it. Mr O'Gara bought the park from the Darley family which owned it since the early 19th century.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/0329/1175003412944.html
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby GrahamH » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:04 pm

Mr O'Gara appeared on the radio (again) on Tuesday in defence of his case. Interestingly, a senior counsel specialising in planning matters claimed on the programme that when or if the CPO's level of compensation goes to arbitration, the State arbitrator must disregard any 'spot zoning' ascribed to the subject property. Indeed a court case has already been successfully brought against the LA overseeing Leopardstown Racecourse over a CPO they initiated that stated the land was zoned as amenity space only, just like Dartmouth Square. Spot zoning would appear to be zoning of a non-conforming land use generally prevailing in the surrounding area. Whether this applies to Dartmouth is unclear. If the site's zoning must be disregarded, it could have certain consequences in this case.

However, whilst the arbitrator may or may not take zoning into account, they must consider the broader principals of the development plan, ranging from patterns of development, history of use, character of area, traffic, protected structures etc etc. Also, should DCC see fit, they could designate the square an ACA or an Area of Special Planning Control to further negate the development potential of the land, though this must be done prior to their invitation to treat (negotiate with O'Gara). Once/if that is inititated, O'Gara has 18 months to hammer something out with them.

His claims are really quite hilarious, including: "The most important freedom you have is the freedom to own your own piece of land, where you live and breathe". Above your human rights of course. And claims that "the politicans" "stole our freedoms" in "introducing these unconstitutional plannings laws". He also supports pre-'63 developments and their prized deevlopment status today, as "pre '63 you had no hassle with the planners". Indeed even when questioned on building nine storey blocks in a three storey area, he claimed rejecting such a concept through common planning practice as being unconstitutional, "placing the case of death on your property". He's stated over and over again how he deems it to be scandalous that 'beurocrats' have a say in your own land and what you can do with it.

"Where is the justice, where have our freedoms under the Republic of Ireland gone to?"

"Pat, when you hear fellas talking about the common good, watch out. That's how they built communism."

Hear it below, starting at 4.45.

http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-todaywithpatkenny-Tuesday.smil
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby PVC King » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:37 pm

I switched off his rhetoric a long time ago and strongly believe that he has taken this line only to pad out the time he spends in court. The only route unproven against his stance is unique bizarre constitutional route that no one else has ever invested legal costs in.

In relation to the Leopardstown case I can see the legal point. You have a lot of very similar land in the vicinity none of which is developed with some zoned resi and some zoned amenity. The zoning in such a case has some slight doubt as the decision to zone plot a resi and plot b amenity due to their similar characteristics is an arbitrary decision. It is a fair question to ask why there is a very different zoning despite the simularities. As a result the owners of the financially disadvantaged plot successfully argued this point.

However I do not feel that this principle can be transferred to Dartmouth Square for the following reasons. Firstly the site history for over a century displays that the estate zoning on the site was amenity. The plan has always been that this plot would be subservient to the adjoining residential uses. Secondly when the zoning was conferred in the first statutory development plan the plan for the area was reliant on this plot providing the amenity space for this locality and no other sites were considered so that decision cannot be conidered to be arbitrary. Thirdly the CPO of the lands at Leopardstown sought to change the day to day use of the subject plot; in this case the use is not proposed to change and as such the local authority cannot be said to be gaining any financial gain in the transaction.

I would ask one simple question what was the user clause in all previous leases and how long has the superior interest holder insisted on such a user clause formed the centre of all deals done? The zoning is valid on the basis of his predessors grants of lease.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby PVC King » Sat May 12, 2007 9:03 am

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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby alonso » Mon May 14, 2007 1:24 pm

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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby PVC King » Mon May 14, 2007 5:14 pm

Very good work!!!!!!

Lets just call it the Me Fein party
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby JL » Sun May 20, 2007 10:50 am

Saw the link above - was very informative (and quite a funny exchange of views). But when I tried to go back again yesterday it had gone. Anyone know why?
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby alonso » Sun May 20, 2007 12:36 pm

may have been removed. Noel was spamming the site with his manifesto so the mods could have taken it down. There's a few other threads on him, and he's humiliating himself with the same bollox over and over again
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby JL » Sun May 20, 2007 1:03 pm

Shame. Give a man enough rope....
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby d_d_dallas » Thu May 24, 2007 1:42 pm

Considering the day that's in it:

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=20458

how many 1st preferences will he get?
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby PVC King » Thu May 24, 2007 3:20 pm

The interesting thing will be to see where his transfers go. I hope it isn't a situation where the bottom 4 canidates are eliminated together.

I suspect FF will do disproportionately well from his votes vis a vis the alternative coalition canidates.

Was concerned to see the Square open at 1130pm last night. The risk of vandals being able to torch the caravan and landrover is worrying and could cause damage to the collanaded structure. Maybe that is his wish so that he can try to milk the resultant sympathy despite him playing for same with such feckless regard for his chattels.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu May 24, 2007 4:31 pm

Here's a scenario

Leave gates open at night, tip off some travellers, and have them move in. Wring hands helplessly in front of cameras and press bemoaning it.... piss off residents even further...
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Hiivaladan » Thu May 24, 2007 10:46 pm

Shocking. Wonder how many votes he will get? There are probably a fair few people around the country who would be happy to vote for him,since he displays a nasty mixture of anti-Dublin feeling, ignorant populism,anti-cultural feeling, a boorish and ignorant lumpen nationalism,notions about an imaginary past,visual illiteracy and cuteness (as in cute h***) leavened with a few half-baked ideas probably gathered from the rampant captalism of the USA.....or Texas at least. He might get a few votes if he stood in Blaney or Healy-Rae territory.
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Lotts » Fri May 25, 2007 11:07 am

Hiivaladan wrote:Shocking. Wonder how many votes he will get?


First tallys have him with 3 votes from a tally of 13,000. Looks very likely to loose deposit...
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby Hiivaladan » Fri May 25, 2007 1:00 pm

Probably his wife, his mum and his dad
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby alonso » Fri May 25, 2007 1:14 pm

think he has 25 from a full tally in DSE such a shame the way this country treats it's great visionairies eh?
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby alonso » Fri May 25, 2007 5:23 pm

HE TOPPED THE POLL

oh no wait my tv was upside down. He's winning the wooden spoon though. Lowest 1st preference in the country; 27
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby tommyt » Fri May 25, 2007 6:16 pm

[quote="alonso"]HE TOPPED THE POLL

oh no wait my tv was upside down. He's winning the wooden spoon though. Lowest 1st preference in the country]

Now that's what I call 'stickin' it to tha maan':cool:
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby KerryBog2 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:06 am

From today's IT.

Controversial Athlone businessman Noel O'Gara is currently serving a prison sentence in England for contempt of court, The Irish Times has learned.

O'Gara, who was at the centre of attempts to turn Dartmouth Square in Dublin into a car park last summer, was arrested on September 7th after taking a photograph of a detective in the foyer of Bradford court in Leeds.

The detective was in court for the bail application of Ronald Castree, the alleged killer of Lesley Molseed, murdered in 1975.

O'Gara (62) maintained the murder was carried out by Peter Sutcliffe, "the Yorkshire Ripper". He also maintained that Sutcliffe was responsible for only four of the 13 "Ripper" murders. He said he knew who the real "Ripper" was and where he is now, and has written a book about it.

In a letter from prison to The Irish Times O'Gara said he was trying to tell the detective this information, but the detective would not speak to him.

He was arrested for contempt after he took a photograph of the detective.
© 2007 The Irish Times
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby henno » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:11 am

what a complete nut job!!
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby hutton » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:56 pm

henno wrote:what a complete nut job!!


O' Gara is that alright - I had heard of his book before; apparently he wrote it + published it himself about 10 years ago, and that in it he claims to have identified the "real" culprit who was previously an employee of his! :eek:

O' Gara leaves nut jobs in the shade IMO
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Re: Dartmouth Square Disgrace

Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:17 pm

Having viewed the Square again I am totally clear in my mind that any proposal to alter the character of this square remains entirely unjustified.

Furthermore the applicant should learn that if it looks too good to be true that it probably is!

All attempts to claim in anyway that the Lemas era politicians were in any way forming a conspiracy to con the common man out of his or her rights as opposed to securing a planning system on the interests of the common good is entirely laughable.
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