Dorset St (Upper)

Dorset St (Upper)

Postby No.42 » Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:16 pm

Does anyone know what happening on Dorset St. opposite the Big Tree. There were hoardings going up around the Bathroom showrooms this morning (big white geogianesque building slightly recessed from street) .

I took a look at the Planning permission application & the bit I could make out [1] detailed no.68 & 69 Dorset St. to become 5 storey over basement apartments.

There is no mention of what's happening next door. The old showroom & it's rear yard accounts for most of that block.

Anyone know anything?

[1] How are these documents supposed to be decoded by the general public?
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Postby dc3 » Sun Mar 25, 2001 8:46 am

Dont know anything about this change but perhaps Dorset Street offers the finest, most relevant, introduction to Irish architecture.

It has everything, well everything that you could be ashamed of anyhow.

It could be a fantastic street, almost a ceremonial entrance for travellers from the airport to the city. It even has some decent buildings in it.

Some day the man in the anorak is going to notice it, and then we will spend billions on ticky tacky.
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Postby GregF » Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:02 pm

What a broad street....infact it's buildings are indeed too short for it's span and let's say quite mediocre and grotty too bar some.
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Postby Drawingboard » Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:09 pm

There are some interesting buildings on it - the former fire station and one of two large houses that look like they predate it as a street and were built when it was a country lane. Most of it is vernacular dross however.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby Frank Taylor » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:31 am

What could be done to improve this dreary, run-down street? It's like a mouth full of rotten teeth with gaping holes and plenty of putrid decay. The buildings are all different heights between 1 and 5 storeys. Many of them have 60's suburban picture windows inserted into dilapidated period buildings. And yet, it's the main boulevard into Dublin from the northside, the equivalent of Leeson Street on the southside.

The width of the road would easily allow 8-10 storey structures. Could it be zoned for rebuilding at this height?\ And would this rezoning be enough to persuade the owners to knock and rebuild?

Rezoning costs nothing after all.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby GrahamH » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:57 am

Yes a sorry sorry place - it hasn't changed one iota since 1990, one of the few (but still fairly widespread) enclaves of 1980s dismal Dublin.

Yes it is a place where a higher density ought to be achievable, but it would be crucial that open spaces and parks are provided for here. What's partly causing the depressing nature of the place is the rows of three storey red brick 80s housing and acres of concrete and roadway. There would be a risk, especially given the history of the area, of 7-8 storey apartment blocks going up lining nothing but a bare motorway.

There's some fascinating remnants of Georgain Dublin about the place that offer a wonderful introduction to the character and feel of the city - always loved them coming into the city as a child, just they're all in bits and look terrible in their current state.

Does anyone know what's happening with the old garage site opposite the Wax Museum? A prime candidate if ever there was one for some decent residential development. These stock brick chimeys lining the site are most unusual - anyone know anything about them?

Image


And these new walls outside the flats on Dorset St (I know, how incredibly two-faced and snobby to call Docklands dev apartments and these 'the flats', but if you described these as such you'd be laughed out of it :o) - the blue bricks and curves are pretty cool.

Image

Image
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby GregF » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:54 pm

I see at long last that the much neglected Dorset Street is being repaved in parts with an island being placed in the middle of the road. A much needed improvement.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:44 pm

yeah some lovely fastigiate oaks going in there, gives the street some much needed structure.
Not normally in favour of island tree planting dividing a street but seems like a good move in this case ...
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:07 pm

Dublin City Council wrote:Dorset Street and Canal Area Plan

Urban and Village Renewal Programme (http://www.eustructuralfunds.ie)
The Plan was approved in 2001 as one of two areas in Dublin to benefit from funding under the above DOE/EU programme. The aim of the measure is to provide financial support for a range of interventions to upgrade cities, to make them more attractive places in which to live and work, encourage social and economic development of tourism and tourist related activities

The Dorset Street/Canal Area Plan focuses on a substantial area of the North Inner City. The area encompasses the spine of Dorset Street, The Royal Canal. Despite its strategic location in relation to the city centre, and the strength of some of its components, the area has suffered from an image of decay and low investment.

In May 2002, the Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern unveiled a major rejuvenation plan for the Dorset Street area. Initially the plan was to concentrate on improving the Dorset Street corridor from Drumcondra to Capel Street plus the nearby Royal Canal. This would also provide for improvements to the nearby areas of Mountjoy Square, Summerhill, Ballybough, Hardwick Street, and Dominick Street etc. This plan was prepared to tackle the challenges posed for the area, and to compliment a number of existing improvements.

After a period of consultation with the local community and businesses in the area, the following key aspects of the plan were identified. Improving the quality of paving, lighting, street furniture and planting, Furthermore to maintain and restore the water body of the Royal Canal, to establish opportunities for infill development and improved streetscape, to provide new/improved play facilities, and to introduce CCTV systems.

To date the following have been achieved in addressing these priorities:

· The refurbishment of No.15 Henrietta Street to house Na Piobairi Uillean Interpretive and Heritage Centre.
· The installation of a high quality children’s playground in Mountjoy Square Park.
· The complete resurfacing of the carriageway on Dorset Street.
· The opening of a Dublin City Council Area Office on Dorset Street to cater for the provision of services for local residents.
· A precinct improvement programme at Sheridan Court, including the installation of security railings, hard and soft landscaping, lighting and repaving.
· The refurbishment of the tow-paths along the canal from Summerhill Parade to Jones Road and from Cross Guns Bridge to Binns Bridge, including the installation of new lighting and CCTV cameras, the resurfacing of the tow-paths and the erection of a statue to Brendan Behan.
· The completion of the section from Whithworth Road to St. Alphonsas Road. A tree-lined central median has been installed on the East and West side.

By the end of November we will see the completion of the section from Binns Bridge to Eccles Place. The final section of the canal from Jones Road to Binns Bridge is also due for completion along with the installation of a new pocket park, including a children’s playground, for Portland Place.
(Taken from: http://www.dublincity.ie/living_in_the_city/your_area/central/central_area_projects/dorset_street_and_canal_area_plan.asp )


"major rejuvenation" my arse - we are 5 years on and the only noticeable changes are:

- Dorset St is now a central axis in DCCs Inner Orbital Route
- A few trees being planted in the central median, a couple of months before the election. There are no plans to extend this as far as Capel St/ Bolton St junction, which would have struck me as the logical starting/ finishing point.
- The little bit of landscaping outside the flats as photod by Graham, which I also like. Ftr this scheme was designed by Mitchell and Assocs.

Whats really needed here is a strategic assessment - not the (albeit well-meaning) superficial treatment that is then described as a "major rejuvenation".

A couple of points that I have noted about the street:

1 On the City Development Plan maps, it is marked down as "Dorset St Corridor": this speaks volumes about how it is viewed and so then how it is treated. It is somewhere to drive thru as opposed to being of merit in itself - something which I believe is having a devestatingly crippling effect on the adjacent areas in that this spinal street divides as opposed to uniting this area.

2 Road markings, parking arrangements, and footpaths have not been altered since the 1980s - despite it being on the Inner Orbital Route; hence at various places 2 lanes merge into 1, while at other spots parking may or may not be allowed according to the time of day. There is no sense of permanency or structure in these arrangements; the st serves a purpose to the wider community in terms of thru-traffic, but this should be managed in a way that does not deprive the street of functioning within its own terms.

3 It is a hostile environment for the pedestrian and non-car users; footpaths should be dramatically widened - especially in the context of the above, where there are currently just useless half-lanes. Traffic refuges and islands - not a dualer / parnell st style median please - should be inserted at strategic locations such as the junctions with Blessington St, Eccles St etc.

4 An environmental and architectural audit desperately needs to be carried out. Certain buildings have charm or architectural interest but are lost in the current context; this includes blind arcaded windows in 18 c terraced buildings, the disgracefully run-down home of Richard Brinsley Sheridan, the fire station, and the terrace of what should be grade A georgians at the corner with Blessington St - which are unfortunately covered in gray render. Any regeneration worth its salt would target these as a landmark project for repointing etc.
Another significant problem is the lack of engagement by many properties with the st; one could make an exception for the gothic revival corner of Dominick St Lwr, but there are many others for which there is no excuse - such as the flats on the corner of Dominick St Upr which are perpendicular to the st... And then theres the massive site formerly occupied by a garage opposite the former wax museum (Mongeys, I think); I have checked in woodquay and could find no record of an application on this site - if this is simply site-hoarding, then it is completely unacceptable and should be CPO'ed under 212 of the 2000 act. It is a priority that this be redeveloped to a high spec

But aside from all of this, the relationship of usage is very important; what cultural institutions can you think of on the st that you would ever go to? Perhaps in relocating the central library maybe DCC should look at the venitian fire station. Before density is looked at, I suggest usage should be targeted - and only then should it be looked at upping the density in an overall conext, imo. Time for a "Dorset St District" as opposed to "Corridor"? ;)
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby notjim » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:43 pm

well to be fair we have beautifull new pavements and new trees are being added to the meridian this week
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby AndrewP » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:44 pm

In fairness, the tree planting and footpath upgrade is pretty extensive and has gone quite quickly, compared to O'Connell Street. Some of the one-storeys north of the Big Tree, on the opposite side, have been demolished and five storey buildings are going up in their place. They are pretty higgledy-piggledy looking though and presenting ugly gable walls as you come in from the airport.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby GrahamH » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:42 am

Yes I've been watching these going up with interest - rather odd looking development.

Not sure what to make of the trees either. Certainly at night they add greatly to the area, to what is an otherwise dingy, soulless and featureless, sodium-lit urbanscape. Though in all honesty it's more the injection of crisp white light into the area that is so refreshing - it makes the world of difference. Hopefully when all the new lampposts are installed the area will be transformed after dark.
Otherwise I hope the trees don't end up splitting the street in two - must take a walk along soon and get a feel for them. As the Corridor suggests, like everyone else I'm rarely out of the car on that route :(

Good points made hutton regarding properties. At the end of the day it's only public domain works that have taken place, and very very recently at that. Negligible improvement has happened on the property front. Most of it is still an 80s timewarp.
I see the ghastly red 'Golf Corner' Georgian has had that notorious billboard removed recently, revealing a giant panel of stock brick :)
The building is currently up for letting, so hopefully...
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby ConK » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:31 pm

Here is a map of the Dorset St/NCR from 1813 hand drawn by the Wide Street s Commision, I was hoping that a big tree would feature somewhere on the map.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:49 pm

ConK wrote:Here is a map of the Dorset St/NCR from 1813 hand drawn by the Wide Street s Commision, I was hoping that a big tree would feature somewhere on the map.


Nice one :)

Do you have any more of those for this area, ie Mountjoy Square, Blessington St & Basin?

One little thing that interests me, being a renowned symantic, is that "Belvedere" is spelt that way - as opposed to the "Belevidere" with an "i" that it has since been corrupted to in ref to this st.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby ConK » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:10 pm

I don't have any more of them. But they do exist. You can get to see them in the library on Pearse Street. It is very interesting. I wanted to see that one because I live in the field up from the big tree.

On one of the other maps from 1810, which you can get in the RIA on Kildare St, has a Belvidere House in north county dublin. With that spelling.

The Avenue in Dublin 1 has the two spellings on it, each with it's own sign, facing each other on opposite sides of the street !!
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:37 pm

ConK wrote:I don't have any more of them. But they do exist. You can get to see them in the library on Pearse Street. It is very interesting. I wanted to see that one because I live in the field up from the big tree.

On one of the other maps from 1810, which you can get in the RIA on Kildare St, has a Belvidere House in north county dublin. With that spelling.

The Avenue in Dublin 1 has the two spellings on it, each with it's own sign, facing each other on opposite sides of the street !!


Hi ConK, I was hoping to pm you regarding Dorset St & its environs, but I do not seem to be able to; by any chance could you pm me with your email address?

Many thanks

H
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby notjim » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:52 pm

GrahamH wrote:I see the ghastly red 'Golf Corner' Georgian has had that notorious billboard removed recently, revealing a giant panel of stock brick :)
The building is currently up for letting, so hopefully...


As if conjured up by your post, the pink georgian was scaffolded yesterday, a couple of months ago there was some small test poultices applied, so hopefully . . .
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby jimg » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:31 am

Maybe it was the crisp winter light this morning but I thought the new median and trees look really good on Dorset St. Once the footpaths are redone - hopefully salvaging the old kerbstones - I think the street will have improved greatly. The median breaks the out-of-scale width of the street (in proportion with much of building stock). The aspects which make the street ugly may actually end up make it very attractive - a lack of historic coherence and the mismatch of scales and usage. Hopefully the improvements in the public fittings will be reflected by similar improvements in the private stock, a process that seems to have started already.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby phil » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:29 pm

I agree Jimg. I was admiring it last night. It is a nicely done job. I also agree that the 'mismatch of scales and usage' is something positive about it as a street.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby ConK » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:01 pm

Dorset Streets most famous son has a play in the Abbey at the moment.
Richard Brinsley Sheridan. Born in 12 Dorset Street. Died 1816.

It is a long time since an MP or TD was born on Dorset Street.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:45 pm

ConK wrote:Dorset Streets most famous son has a play in the Abbey at the moment.
Richard Brinsley Sheridan. Born in 12 Dorset Street. Died 1816.

It is a long time since an MP or TD was born on Dorset Street.


That it is - although the current encumbent of An Taoiseachs ofiice isnt from too far away ;)

Just to add to the ConKs info, aside from Sheridan, according to John Cowells book ("Dublins famous people & where they lived"), the following also lived on the st at different points:

Sean O' Casey - 85 Upr D St, since a granite built bank

Napper Tandy - radical member of the United Irishmen, no. 16

Peader Kearney - 68 Lwr D St, songwriter of the national anthem and "Down by the glenside", also an uncle of Brendan Behan.

Sir John Pentland Mahaffy - Trinity Provost and ex-pal of Oscar Wilde; subsequently a later address of his at 38 Nth Gt Georges St has had a plaque put up on it.

Aside from the st itself, there is a wide range of notable people who lived off and around it - Cowell's book makes for a fascinating read and is available from O' Brien press at about €12.


:)
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:11 am

THE PHOENIX MAGAZINE wrote:
Saving Richard Brinsley Sheridan's Home

A "school for scandal" has emerged over plans to demolish the birthplace of playwright, Richard Brinsley Sheridan, at 12 Dorset Street Lower, where Shane Murphy with an address in Malahide, has lodged a planning application.

Lodged on Friday December 22, Murphy's scheme would level the Sheridan house and also the adjacent building, the disused Moy bar, to allow for the erection of a new complex of nine apartments on top of a commercial unit.

Formerly a fine Georgian house of four floors over basement, Sheridan's home stood intact close to the corner of Dominick Street until the 1980's - during when the house was boarded up, the top two floors removed, and the plaque mysteriously disappeared. Since then, the building has sat empty alongside the Moy bar, which has also become disused.

Unfortunately for Murphy, what remains of Sheridan's house is listed in its entirety on the Record of Protected Structures, and this is likely to present difficulties for his scheme. Oddly he did not seek to have the building de-listed before applying for planing permission. Such applications are automatically referred to a number of prescribed bodies, including An Taisce.

In the past there have been attempts by conservationists to save the building but the exact ownership proved elusive, with the Dominican Fathers being among those denying possession – although they did apply to put in a car park in the rear, back in 1993.

Happily for all, the current application resolves such riddles, and so there has been an upsurge in activity. Helpful fellow that he is, Senator David Norris has lodged an objection noting all the expected reasons.

Now that word is out, we might expect some coverage from the likes of Fintan O'Toole, who has published a well received biography on Sheridan. Or perhaps O'Toole has had enough of conservationist malarkey - given his own recent planning controversy?
.
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby GrahamH » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:13 am

Yes this poor little remnant is in a dismal state, with little other than a doorcase, a flanking window and part of the first floor still intact - the rear structure covered over with an enormous corrugated roof. The same has very recently been stuffed into the ground floor window, while the doorcase is filled from head to toe with breeze blocks: the sight of them squeezed up against the delicate capitals with splodges of cement would make you weep. Most of the railings and granite steps also survive. I hope we may have some pictures shortly.

A similar application was also made in 2003 to demolish the house for apartments etc, but nothing seems to have come of it. I sure Mr Norris put up an eloquent defence ;)
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:51 pm

Developer makes play for Sheridan's birthplace

From The Irish Independent Sat, Feb 10 07

A DEVELOPER plans to demolish the birthplace of 18th century playwright Richard Brinsley Sheridan and replace it with an apartment block.

Planning permission has been sought from Dublin City Council by Shane Murphy, with an address at Malahide in Dublin, to demolish the playwright and Whig MP's former home at 12 Upper Dorset Street. Mr Murphy wants to build nine apartments, including a luxury penthouse suite.

A listed building, the house is currently in a dilapidated condition and two of the upper floors have been demolished. A conservation report attached to the planning application calls it an "eyesore".

As well as the apartments, there would be a retail unit at ground floor level, and the adjoining disused Moy pub will be demolished.

Born in October 1751, Richard Brinsley Sheridan was the author of The School for Scandal (1777), considered to be among the greatest comedy of manners written in English.

The application has been opposed by Senator David Norris, who said last night that a blue plaque signifying that the house had cultural merit had been placed on the building in the 1980s, but had since been removed and the upper floors demolished.

"We have to draw a line somewhere," he said. "We can't go around putting plaques up and then demolishing the building. The facade could be retained and I think special consideration should be given to this house."

Senator Norris' objection states it is "regrettable" that the Georgian building had been allowed fall into such a neglected state that the top two floors are missing.

A decision from Dublin City Council is expected in the next two weeks.

Paul Melia
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Re: Dorset St (Upper)

Postby hutton » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:03 pm

Phoenix Magazine wrote:we might expect some coverage from the likes of Fintan O'Toole


Irish Times? Unlikely - Its only Dublin City and on the northside :rolleyes:
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