Cork Harbour

Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:15 pm

Angry Rebel wrote:The army still have an active bse there. The prison will be built on Dept of Defence owned lands between the Camp and the existing Corbett Court Hotel.


But is that not the firing range? And what are the locals going to say about all that?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:52 pm

Praxiteles wrote:But is that not the firing range? And what are the locals going to say about all that?

That was one of the main reason spike had been chosen as Nimbyism would not apply. would expect if the own the kilworth land it will work our cheaper than bridge etc. to spike beofre one even builds the prison.


Of late no one was really allowed on Spike..have heard than already this week coming some school kids are going out on a trip there...so definately local signals are of a change of policy alright.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby phatman » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:56 pm

samuel j wrote:That was one of the main reason spike had been chosen as Nimbyism would not apply. would expect if the own the kilworth land it will work our cheaper than bridge etc. to spike beofre one even builds the prison.


Of late no one was really allowed on Spike..have heard than already this week coming some school kids are going out on a trip there...so definately local signals are of a change of policy alright.



I never realised how amazing Spike is until someone posted aerial pictures recently, some amazing buildings out there. It rivals Charles Fort, its setting really is special. So hopefully now that the opportunity has presented itself I hope that its potential will be exploited, be it visitor centre, ferries from Cobh etc. :o
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:11 pm

It sure is and tunnels all over the place leading to old magazines, turrets. The moat itself is amazing...
Even in its present state is amazing...imagine if work like was done on Charlesfort was done to it...
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby phatman » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:57 pm

samuel j wrote:Most of the Sharks in Cork live Ashore.....


haha...brilliant!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:30 pm

Praxiteles wrote:But is that not the firing range? And what are the locals going to say about all that?


Irish Examiner > 2006/11/23 >

Army camp a contender for super-prison

The 1,200-acre camp, located close to the M8 motorway between Mitchelstown and Fermoy, has been surveyed in recent weeks by the Department of Justice and the Prisons Service with a view to assessing its suitability as the so-called “super-prison” for Munster. The new prison is expected to house as many as 500 prisoners.

However, if Kilworth were to be selected, the prison would take up only a portion of the huge site, with the Defence Forces remaining in situ on the remaining part of the facility, which is also known as Lynch Camp.

Last night, a Department of Justice spokesperson confirmed that a proposal to locate the new prison at Kilworth is currently being examined by officials.

“No decision has yet been made,” the spokesperson pointed out, however.

Until now, Spike Island had been perceived as the likely location for the new prison — and was thought to be the preferred option of the Department of Justice.

But the proposal was harshly criticised by Cork east Fianna Fáil TD Ned O’Keeffe on the basis that such a large-scale development on the island, involving so many prisoners, was inappropriate.

Last weekend, his party colleague in the constituency, Junior Minister Michael Ahern, also expressed strong criticism of the proposed location.

During a recent visit to Cork, Tánaiste Michael McDowell said he was open to consider other options besides Spike Island but none had come forward. In so doing, the minister indicated that no definite decision had been taken to locate the prison on Spike Island.

Contacted by the Irish Examiner last night, Mr O’Keeffe reacted by saying he was totally opposed to the proposed location of the prison at Kilworth.

“This is a surprise. As the local deputy I am dismayed that I have not been consulted. I will need to communicate with my constituents if that is the case,” he said.

“I am sure that many people in the Kilworth, Mitchelstown and Fermoy areas will be disturbed. I do not believe this site is a suitable location for such a large prison. I do not want it foisted on the people of that area,” he said.

Last May, Spike Island was first proposed as the location of the new prison, two years after the complex on the site closed its doors. However, local residents immediately mounted a campaign against the proposal.

Earlier this month, Mr McDowell said he expected to make a decision soon on the location for the prison in Munster.

Campaigners have said if the island’s tourism potential was tapped properly, it could become Ireland’s version of Alcatraz.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:59 am

Some more shots of Spike Island as it is now..
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:22 am

Nice pictures Sam. How did the place get into such a state of dereliction?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Angry Rebel » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:10 am

Eh...the government own it!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Spinal Tap » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:42 am

Angry Rebel wrote:Eh...the government own it!


Its a national disgrace that this facility with so much potential is left to rot.Imagine if this was located in Dublin ? There would be an outcry on a massive scale.
What crap politicians and civil servants we have to let this potential go to waste and now they want to place a modern prison on it to obliterate any hope of tourist / visitor development.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby KerryBog2 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:07 pm

An interesting comparison for Spike is Governor's Island off lower Manhattan. See
http://www.governorsislandalliance.org/

Kilworth is probably the coldest place in Ireland, great place to freeze the villains!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby tjomeara » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:32 pm

Spinal Tap wrote:Its a national disgrace that this facility with so much potential is left to rot.Imagine if this was located in Dublin ? There would be an outcry on a massive scale.
What crap politicians and civil servants we have to let this potential go to waste and now they want to place a modern prison on it to obliterate any hope of tourist / visitor development.


Have a look at the Magazine Fort in the Phoenix Park for similar dereliction.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:17 pm

Spinal Tap wrote:Its a national disgrace that this facility with so much potential is left to rot.Imagine if this was located in Dublin ? There would be an outcry on a massive scale.
What crap politicians and civil servants we have to let this potential go to waste and now they want to place a modern prison on it to obliterate any hope of tourist / visitor development.



That indeed is in good part the root cause of many of our problems. Just because Spike is inaccessible to the general public the government and their flunkies are prepared to let the entire thing rot to bits. Can you imagine anything like this happening on Elba?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:05 pm

Praxiteles wrote:That indeed is in good part the root cause of many of our problems. Just because Spike is inaccessible to the general public the government and their flunkies are prepared to let the entire thing rot to bits. Can you imagine anything like this happening on Elba?

Will post a few more shots later at the risk of ending up in Spike..... Would you believe that the group
out there were told no photos were to be taken.... fortunately that was like a red rag to a bull to some of the more youthful members of the group... who did his best ...
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 pm

KB2 - I camped at Kilworth aons ago, and I agree...the place displays similar traits to the North Pole.
Samuel J - Great photos. Always amazes me that the various fortifications left over from the days Cork harbour was a staging post for the Brits have been left to rot. Fort Carlisle and Fort Camden offer incredible vistas and given that they stand at the highest point at the mouth of the harbour (and directly opposite each other), they should really be utilised more fully. For various reasons, access is denied (as anyone who walks out by Roches Point will know). Spike, Carlisle, and Camden (not sure of the Irish names) should be given the Charlesfort (Kinsale) treatment at the very least.
Snap below is of one of the them. Samuel J...maybe you can fill me in.
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2143/p1010313dy0.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5967/p1010296ta1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>
You can just about make out the two forts here....this is a view from the Crosshaven side
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1239/p1010321ex1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:43 pm

samuel j wrote:Will post a few more shots later at the risk of ending up in Spike..... Would you believe that the group
out there were told no photos were to be taken.... fortunately that was like a red rag to a bull to some of the more youthful members of the group... who did his best ...



Do not tell me that Das Grosscorkische Reich has already established itself on Spike?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:51 pm

corcaighboy wrote:KB2 - I camped at Kilworth aons ago, and I agree...the place displays similar traits to the North Pole.
Samuel J - Great photos. Always amazes me that the various fortifications left over from the days Cork harbour was a staging post for the Brits have been left to rot. Fort Carlisle and Fort Camden offer incredible vistas and given that they stand at the highest point at the mouth of the harbour (and directly opposite each other), they should really be utilised more fully. For various reasons, access is denied (as anyone who walks out by Roches Point will know). Spike, Carlisle, and Camden (not sure of the Irish names) should be given the Charlesfort (Kinsale) treatment at the very least.
Snap below is of one of the them. Samuel J...maybe you can fill me in.
Image


Interesting like here on all of them :

http://www.palmerstonforts.org.uk/redan/cork.htm

and :
Camden Fort
Camden (Fort Meagher) is recognised internationally to be one of the world's finest examples of a Classical Coast Artillery Fort. Fortifications at the site date from about 1550. They were further added-to in 1600. However, after the Battle of Kinsale the Fort became derelict. At the end of the 17th. century the Fort was fortified by the Jacobites in an effort to block the Williamites' naval forces. In 1690 it fired on the Williamite fleet as it entered Cork Harbour, but was silenced by a party sent ashore to attack it. It was known as James' Battery and consisted of two blockhouses and eight guns. During the war against the French in the late 1780's Crosshaven got a permanent garrison and the threat of war with Spain around 1790 led to the erection of new gun batteries on the site. By 1837, the Fort contained only a token force of a master gunner and eight men. In 1875 the land side of the Fort was modified for the mounting of 30 additional guns. Sitting at the west side of the harbour it covers about 60 acres and stands about 200 feet above sea level. The fort area is honeycombed with underground passages and emplacements including a large magazine. It has a magnificent tunnel, engineered to house the fixed torpedo invented by Louis Philip Brennan. The Fort was handed over to the Irish Army in 1938 and in 1989 Cork County Council acquired ownership. Current plans include the development of a Military Heritage Centre and general tourist attractions, including visitor accommodation, watersport facilities, craftshops and restaurant. On the opposite side of the harbour stands its sister fort; Carlisle (Fort Davis) which was possibly one of the earliest bastioned forts in the country. It is owned by the Dept. of Defence.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:55 pm

Praxiteles wrote:Do not tell me that Das Grosscorkische Reich has already established itself on Spike?


Alas my intrepid spy could not get shots of the interesting tunnels to the huge south facing guns and
of the turret itself.... minders were keeping to close an eye....

Comments from the youthful group on return was as posters here, a shame if left to go sh** but
all agreed it could be massive if anything like the work done on Charlesfort was done to it
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:49 pm

Just in case anyone was wondering about anything in the air over Cork harbour these days, we might have an explaination fromn the following in to-day's Irish Times:

Crematorium to open in Cork
Jack Fagan

The first crematorium outside Dublin opens next Monday on an island in Cork harbour. It is expected to cater for around 700 cremations in the first year.

Until now, families in the south of Ireland who opted for this form of funeral service have had to make the long journey to Dublin, where there are three crematoriums.

Almost 30 per cent of funerals in Dublin, or about 2,000 services a year, involve cremations.

People choose cremation for a variety of reasons including the personal wishes of the deceased. One reason for the rapid increase in the numbers opting for cremation rather than burial is the considerable cost savings involved and also the acute shortage of plots in cemeteries where close relations are already buried.

The opening of the Cork crematorium comes after several failed attempts by various business people to obtain planning permission.

The issue was finally resolved when Clonmel-based businessman Louis Ronan acquired Rocky Island, close to the naval base at Haulbowline, and later secured permission to convert an early 19th century gunpowder magazine into a crematorium.

The approach to the island takes motorists across a bridge from Ringaskiddy, about eight miles from Cork city.

The classical-style brick vaults that will house the crematorium have been sensitively restored under the direction of Patrick Creedon of architects Magee Creedon.

The unusual entrance runs through a cave-like tunnel into a courtyard with a large water feature and a 90-year-old arbutus tree imported from Italy.

The three original vaults running from one end of the building to the other have been fitted out for use as a spiritual area, family room and refreshments area, as well as for staff quarters.

Mourners will leave via a second courtyard at the back of the building.

Mr Ronan is principal of Enfer Scientific Ltd in Co Kildare, which was the first biotechnology company to develop a rapid test screening system for BSE.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:33 pm

"The opening of the Cork crematorium comes after several failed attempts by various business people to obtain planning permission." - One of these was in Ovens... I'm not making this up...........
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:45 pm

Further signs of Das Grosscorkische Reich?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby goldiefish » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:59 pm

corcaighboy wrote:Jungle, Samuel J - Here are a couple of aerial photos I took back in August which gives you some idea of the urban sprawl in the Cobh area.


This shot gives an idea of the sprawl from Rushbrooke (with an 'e', correct?) The dockyard is also in the picture, as are the two large ESB pylons that caused much controversy a few years back when residents were seeking to have them put underwater rather than across the channel.

I have to correct you there. The pylons you indicate have been there since the early 80s and at the time were the Highest in the country.

The ones that the residents still object to were to cross the southern part of the estuary. The main issue was that the esb had bought the materials for the pylons before seeking permission to erect them and done everything in their power to railroad the planning process.

Also in relation to Fort Davis(Carlisle) it is still in use by the Defence forces for training. It is far from derelict. However Fort Camden was passed from the DoD to the OPW in 1989. Little was done by them since then apart from erecting a Gate. There is still an elderly family housed there(in DoD housing). I can only assume that as the DoD no longer provide housing to members of the Defence Forces, this fammily will have to remain there till the end of their days. In the meantime the fort is used by a wide range of couples for activities that under current legislation is permissible only by consenting adults...
That and breaking whatever glass still remains..

Kilworth Camp is also in full time use by the Defence forces, not just the recently disbanded FCA. The site earmarked for the proposed prison is between Corbett court and the Camp gates. The firing range is nowhere near this site. The proposed development of the M8 to the west of the current N8 will mean the Camp(and prison) will no longer be divided by the main cork Dublin road and will allow the occupants to make better use of the other side of the road(have you ever tried to get 100+pedestrians accross the main cork-dublin road in the shortest possible time??). Its use by the DF will expand as nimbyism grabs hold of the other primary DF training area in Wicklow, the Glen of Imaal.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby phatman » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:02 pm

Interesting programme on Spike Island last night, 'Oiléan' on RTE 1, 7.30. Just caught some of it, but really impressive to see some of those buildings on tv. Maybe it will be repeated at some stage...
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:30 pm

phatman wrote:Interesting programme on Spike Island last night, 'Oiléan' on RTE 1, 7.30. Just caught some of it, but really impressive to see some of those buildings on tv. Maybe it will be repeated at some stage...

It was indeed, but taken some time back.... there was a shot of the unmarked graves which had an ornate
gate at entrance..... this has since gone missing........ hope some decision is made soon before anything else goes missing..
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Spinal Tap » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:31 pm

[quote="phatman"]Interesting programme on Spike Island last night, 'Oilé]

Good enough programme - too much of John Spillane's warblings but the building and the tourism potential is enormous as a "Charlfort" renovation would be a fantastic and exciting proposal if it ever wants to happen,
The Island must be used to its full potential and not just a new prison which when you think about it could be placed almost anywhere.Well see how our esteemed politicians deal eith this one.
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