Cork Harbour

Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:52 am

To return to the Cobh UDC Local Development Plan and what we can learn from it.

Sections of the first volumn are written in the most amazingly hyperbolic English conveyed in an equally tenuous knowledge of English grammar and orthography. Whoever wrote this piece does not know how to form the Saxon genetive nor indeed numerative plurals (e.g. 1850's).

Reading the general morphology and topography of the town of Cobh, at times, one cannot help wondering whether the person who wrote this section of the Local Development Plan had ever actually visited the town. The morphology and topography of Cobh could just as easily have been written in Timbuctoo from a set of Ordinance Survey maps and the usual historical sources for the topography of Cork (Smith, Trotter, Lewis). Had the person who did write this section actually visited Cobh, I think we might be forgiven for wondering whether that person might not have been visually impaired.

In terms of the historical development of Cobh, I have failed to find even the slightest hint that for over 200 years the town has been the seat of a residential bishop and centre of government for the diocese of Cloyne - a fact that has not been without effect on Cobh. It does seem rather churlish to suggest that for the greater part of that period of time the town was comprised mostly of seafarers and revenue men - unless of course the present UDC in Cobh consider the episcopal succession in Cloyne to have been made up mostly of seafarers or revenue men or both. This unfortunate prose effect would need a little pruning when the UDC gets around to revising the Local Area Plan in 2011.

Let me quote from the great text at page 10:

"G: The Old Town centre

The town centre nestles in a valley between Ballynoe Hill and Ticknock Hill. it (sic) comprises two well proportioned Nineteenth squares (sic) located on a gentle crescent overlooking the esplanade and harbour. Rising above the town centre much of the valley and land between Ballynoe Hill and Ticknock Hill within the Town Council area comprises 1950's (sic) + suburban housing".

We might be able to organise a prize for the first person to notice any omission in this description of the topography of the "Old Town Centre".
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:28 pm

And here is another interesting piece from the Local Development Plan for Cobh (p. 10):

"Area F: Suburbian Victoriana:

The lower portion of the Southern hillside from the Whitepoint area to the town centre are ornamented by nunteenth century villas generously spaced in leafy, Robinsonian, ornamental greenery attractively framing tatefully designed villas set in mature woodland. The topography, the south facing aspect, the vegitation, the sea views, the thoughtfully scaled disposition of the buildings all create the illusion of detached country houses that belie the density involved. This is a very vertical space with a number of cliff like areas to which the buildings cling to the side. The hanging gardens effect further reduces the apparent density.

These factors create the potential for a unique architectural and landscape conservation area".

At the bnottom of all that verbiage is the simple assertion taht the area between Whitpoint and the town centre is an area of particular architectural and heritage interest taht should be regarded as a prime subject for conservation. That point may perhaps have been clearer to the denizens in the Cobh UDC had it not been wrapped up in a verbiage of "Robinsonian" greenery.

And how has Cobh UDC reacted toall of this?

Well, in the middle of all of the leafy Robinsonian greenery, and of the the thoughtfully scaled disposition of the buildings, Cobh UDC allowed the building of the following illusion of a south-facing country house with strong vertical lines and clinging to the edgeof the cliff, thereby enhancing this "unique architectural and landscape conservation area"!

You certainly have to hand it to Cobh Urban District Council: They knows a good piece of Victoriana when they sees it!!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby THE_Chris » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:53 pm

samuel j wrote:Welcome Sir Norman.... 1st of many posts I hope.
Strange view by residents that no link, they all well sourced water supplies I would think...and would have though many good and bad tanks in area. Septic tank permission I believe have now got tighter (or at least according to two pals of mine that have recently built..costly I hear) but many houses have been built on that bally-walter stretch before recent times so would doubt if all have decent systems and/or correct perculation
with respect to neighnours wells.
You know any more about the 90+ houses mentioned in thread by and the helpfulness of a councillor...


There is a local community water scheme in Ballymore/Walterstown. Its provided from a 150-200ft deep well on reasonably high ground.

Most people do have wells, my folks live in the general area and have a 120ft deep one. Nicest water Ive ever tasted, I will say that., much better than the shite I get here up in Galway. It was tested a few years ago, and passed all tests, except for a slightly high Nitrate (or Nitrite, cant remember) concentration. That said, they're on the edge of development and are effectively 'first in line' for the water flow.

All houses have septic tanks, yes they are getting much more strict with them, but Id say most houses would fail a test if there is one.

IMO Ballymore should be left as it is (no more ribbon development and no estates thx). Much better infrastructure is needed (transport, water, etc etc etc) before anything should go ahead. And maybe a shop. Concentrate tasteful development on Cobh, and leave Ballymore etc a greenfield site as it is. Maybe a bit of a streetscape, but keep it to Ballymore, and not sprawl it out to Walterstown.


Edit: And does anyone else think it crazy that Cobh, as an island, is under two seperate governing bodies? The town, up to Cuskinny, is under Cobh, the rest of the island under Midleton??? So the country area gets shafted cos Midleton dont give a rats about it.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:57 pm

THE_Chris wrote:There is a local community water scheme in Ballymore/Walterstown. Its provided from a 150-200ft deep well on reasonably high ground.

Most people do have wells, my folks live in the general area and have a 120ft deep one. Nicest water Ive ever tasted, I will say that., much better than the shite I get here up in Galway. It was tested a few years ago, and passed all tests, except for a slightly high Nitrate (or Nitrite, cant remember) concentration. That said, they're on the edge of development and are effectively 'first in line' for the water flow.

All houses have septic tanks, yes they are getting much more strict with them, but Id say most houses would fail a test if there is one.

IMO Ballymore should be left as it is (no more ribbon development and no estates thx). Much better infrastructure is needed (transport, water, etc etc etc) before anything should go ahead. And maybe a shop. Concentrate tasteful development on Cobh, and leave Ballymore etc a greenfield site as it is. Maybe a bit of a streetscape, but keep it to Ballymore, and not sprawl it out to Walterstown.


Edit: And does anyone else think it crazy that Cobh, as an island, is under two seperate governing bodies? The town, up to Cuskinny, is under Cobh, the rest of the island under Midleton??? So the country area gets shafted cos Midleton dont give a rats about it.

Its mad Chris, I in Rushbrooke area and just across from me I'm looking at a development in Cork CCs area, about 500m away, then if I turn 90 degrees I'm looking another one going up about 200m away in Cobh TCs area. A simple task like checking on whats going on around you mean going to 2 different agencies depending on where the balls hops....
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby THE_Chris » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:27 pm

Yeah. And the story about the estates in Ballymore is to do with all that. All these rezoning requests have to be published in the local news before they go ahead. It did. In Midletons Imokilly People, which noone on Cobh island reads and probobly isnt available on the island.

So the first anyone knew about the planned rezoning was when it had progressed to a stage where it couldnt easily be stopped. I was at the local meeting where all this was revealed - people were up in arms and Cllr Mulvihill lost a LOT of votes that night by arguing with anyone who tried to object....
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:20 pm

Indeed Imokilly People viwed in Cobh as an East Cork paper and readership would be miniscule... nasty old tack. The Cllr not doing himself any favours......ah well his choice.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:10 pm

[quote="Praxiteles"]Let me quote from the great text at page 10:

"G: The Old Town centre

The town centre nestles in a valley between Ballynoe Hill and Ticknock Hill. it (sic) comprises two well proportioned Nineteenth squares (sic) located on a gentle crescent overlooking the esplanade and harbour. Rising above the town centre much of the valley and land between Ballynoe Hill and Ticknock Hill within the Town Council area comprises 1950's (sic) + suburban housing".

QUOTE]

Ah lads ye can't be serious.......large, dominating, spire, stone..place of worship kind of thing......come to mind
visually impaired.........I've seen low cloud and dense fog but it must have been horrendous when they viewed the place. Not a mention of the Cathedral. the single most important part of the Topography of Cobh, with all other roads, buildings extending from it point.
Even if you never visited the town every map, nautical chart has it clearly makred in Bold.....nautical charts evne give its high 91metres above sea level.......
Oh I wonder.............sometimes....
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:14 pm

Bingo Sam!

You got it in one. Now we shall have to arrange the prize..... How about a Veuve or dare I speak the name of Kristal?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:16 pm

samuel j wrote:Indeed Imokilly People viwed in Cobh as an East Cork paper and readership would be miniscule... nasty old tack. The Cllr not doing himself any favours......ah well his choice.


The same Cllr. Mulvihill did himself no favours either re. the Cobh Cathedral debacle. He did a lot of political huffing and puffing in an attempt to be seen to be on every side of every fence. Unfortunately, this debased form of Realpolitik robbed him of all credibility and, I expect, the FOSCC will ensure that he will pay the price come the next elections! Vae victis!!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:09 am

I hate to admit it but I do not know who the Callan poet John Locke is. he is mentioned in the Cobh UDC Local Development Plan but a he appears nowhere in the Oxford Companion to English Literature. Any clues anyone?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:51 am

Praxiteles wrote:Bingo Sam!

You got it in one. Now we shall have to arrange the prize..... How about a Veuve or dare I speak the name of Kristal?

Kristal fine to mention, just once you don't combine it with any references to the post tea time thuggery.....of times past.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:05 am

I think that was another Kristall...with two "l"s !!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:10 am

Praxiteles wrote:I think that was another Kristall...with two "l"s !!

I jujst knew you would spot that.......

John Locke - Fenian poet and journalist..I didn't make it up....swear
John Locke himself was born in Minauns, Callan on July 26, 1847. His father was Thomas Locke, an accountant in the leather firm of Mr. Patrick Cody, and his mother was Mary Ryan, a Tipperary woman.
At school John was known as ‘The Little Officer’ because of his black breaded cap, but attracted more attention for his ability to play the game of hurling.
John Locke was regarded as the most stylish hurler that Callan National School had ever seen.
When in school John used to write verses of poetry on slips of paper and went on to have his first of many poems published in 1863 at the age of 16 years. The most famous of these poems was Dawn on the Irish Coast, written in 1877 and later included in school books by the Irish Christian Brothers. He is best remembered in Callan for his poem The Calm Avonree. As a teenager John became involved in the Nationalist movement through his poetry and journalism, and became a prominent figure at Nationalist meetings held in his own county.
During the year 1867 John was arrested and after the formality of a trial was sentenced to six months’ jail in Kilkenny. He was later released on bail but he was determined to continue as a member of the I.R.B.
Locke then visited Manchester and after that to America and continued to be an active Nationalist.
In 1881 John Locke married Mary Cooney – a native of Kilkenny city – in Villanova College in New York. This ceremony was performed by Rev. Dr. Joseph Locke, O.S.A., brother of Jim.
On January 31, 1889 John Locke died at the early age of 42 years.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:32 am

samuel j wrote:I jujst knew you would spot that.......

John Locke - Fenian poet and journalist..I didn't make it up....swear
John Locke himself was born in Minauns, Callan on July 26, 1847. His father was Thomas Locke, an accountant in the leather firm of Mr. Patrick Cody, and his mother was Mary Ryan, a Tipperary woman.
At school John was known as ‘The Little Officer’ because of his black breaded cap, but attracted more attention for his ability to play the game of hurling.
John Locke was regarded as the most stylish hurler that Callan National School had ever seen.
When in school John used to write verses of poetry on slips of paper and went on to have his first of many poems published in 1863 at the age of 16 years. The most famous of these poems was Dawn on the Irish Coast, written in 1877 and later included in school books by the Irish Christian Brothers. He is best remembered in Callan for his poem The Calm Avonree. As a teenager John became involved in the Nationalist movement through his poetry and journalism, and became a prominent figure at Nationalist meetings held in his own county.
During the year 1867 John was arrested and after the formality of a trial was sentenced to six months’ jail in Kilkenny. He was later released on bail but he was determined to continue as a member of the I.R.B.
Locke then visited Manchester and after that to America and continued to be an active Nationalist.
In 1881 John Locke married Mary Cooney – a native of Kilkenny city – in Villanova College in New York. This ceremony was performed by Rev. Dr. Joseph Locke, O.S.A., brother of Jim.
On January 31, 1889 John Locke died at the early age of 42 years.


Sam, thanks for that!

You learn something new every day!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:52 am

Here are some more aerial shots.of the harbour
First pic is looking out from Great Island towards the mouth of the harbour.
Image

Here is one of Aghada power station, which is apparently due a big refit/expansion soon. Interesting discussion on another thread re the Poolbeg chimneys in Dublin. Aghada is a mere pup compared to those two, at only 120m.
Image

The Whitegate oil refinery jetty is in the foreground with Cobh, Ringaskiddy, Haulbowline, and Spike Island in the distance
Image

Tried to zoom in a bit to give a better view
Image
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:59 pm

Bioverda, the bioenergy subsidiary of NTR plc, has today announced its plan. to build a vegetable oil based biodiesel facility in the Port of Cork

http://www.ntr.ie/downloads/50-Million-Investment-By-Bioverda-in-Cork-Biodiesel.pdf
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:06 pm

And where exactly are they going to build that now?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:56 pm

Praxiteles wrote:And where exactly are they going to build that now?

The New Port of Cork aka Ringskiddy most likely site but they not saying exactly....

PDF is POC plan
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:20 am

I notice in the weekly report ending 17 November 2006 for Planning Permission Application Received by Cork County Council that Pfizer's have an application for the construction of some more chimney stacks. Has anyone else noticed?
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:08 pm

Praxiteles wrote:I notice in the weekly report ending 17 November 2006 for Planning Permission Application Received by Cork County Council that Pfizer's have an application for the construction of some more chimney stacks. Has anyone else noticed?

They have many ongoing applications filed. As far I can make out the towers are replacements of existing ones
"Replacement of solvent towers and extension to tanker unloading facility and control room"
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby phatman » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:15 pm

I have it on good authority that the Spike Island Prison is not to go ahead, instead it is to be located in Kilworth. Fantastic news!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby samuel j » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:29 pm

Didn't hear Kilworth mentioned but did hear Spike likely to be off list....
Was out there as a kid when it still used for cattle quarantine... had a ball out there loads of alleysway
turrets... certainly gave a bunch of us the day of our life. Good luck to all hoping to make it more and get visitors back to it.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Praxiteles » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:54 am

phatman wrote:I have it on good authority that the Spike Island Prison is not to go ahead, instead it is to be located in Kilworth. Fantastic news!


In Kilworth? Do you mean the Kilworth near Fermoy? Anyone incarcerated up there will die of the cold!
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby corcaighboy » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:15 am

I think the army or the FCA had a camp in Kilworth previously, so I guess any new prison will be on that property.
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Re: Cork Harbour

Postby Angry Rebel » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:06 pm

The army still have an active bse there. The prison will be built on Dept of Defence owned lands between the Camp and the existing Corbett Court Hotel.
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